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Established Contributor
Andy77
Posts: 667
Registered: ‎10-02-2007

Confused About Credit Buckets....

[ Edited ]

So, I know I am in a bucket since I have a 5 yr old ch 7 bk on my file.  What I don't get is, are buckets generalized models ?

 

For instance, maybe I am wrong to think this, but I think most people 5 yrs out of their bk don't have a Cap One Venture with 20k limit or Penfed Amex with 15k limit, as I have both

 

So do having those cards for people with prime credit place me in a different bucket , despite my bk in my file ?

 

 

Established Member
casemodgod
Posts: 20
Registered: ‎03-27-2014
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Re: Confused About Credit Buckets....

Yes it does.

 

But till you have a clean report, you're always going to be in the bottom 1/2 of the buckets.

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Revelate
Posts: 9,640
Registered: ‎12-30-2011
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Re: Confused About Credit Buckets....


Andy77 wrote:

So, I know I am in a bucket since I have a 5 yr old ch 7 bk on my file.  What I don't get is, are buckets generalized models ?

 

For instance, maybe I am wrong to think this, but I think most people 5 yrs out of their bk don't have a Cap One Venture with 20k limit or Penfed Amex with 15k limit, as I have both

 

So do having those cards for people with prime credit place me in a different bucket , despite my bk in my file ?

 

 


FICO doesn't make a distinction at that level: a Centurion and a Zync look and are treated exactly the same, and a FP card is calculated the same way as a JCB Makurai.  

 

We don't know all the things in the algorithm which are bucketable or not (like AAOA, that could easily be either one as it's just an age calculation, I tend to say no but there's no real way to prove it conclusively) but we do know that dirty reports are sorted, and almost assuredly on the type of derogatory as their treatment is moving further and further apart as models evolve.

 

So in your case you're bucketed against other people that likely have a BK on their file, and possibly against people who have a BK from a certain time period ago.  

 

Starting Score: EQ 561, TU 567, EX 599* (12/30/11, EX lender pull 12/29/11)
Current Score: EQ 04 673, EQ 8 707, TU 720, EX 702* (09/02/14, EX older)
Goal Score: 700 on EQ '04 (01/01/15)


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Established Contributor
Andy77
Posts: 667
Registered: ‎10-02-2007
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Re: Confused About Credit Buckets....

Ok...thank you for the explanation.  I just would have thought that the fact that I have those prime cards are helping me more then I had thought....

 

 

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Revelate
Posts: 9,640
Registered: ‎12-30-2011
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Re: Confused About Credit Buckets....


Andy77 wrote:

Ok...thank you for the explanation.  I just would have thought that the fact that I have those prime cards are helping me more then I had thought....

 

 


Prime has nothing to do with FICO: it was a borrower description based on their FICO score, but nothing inside the algorithm itself.  Doesn't even have anything to do with credit cards really, that's a bit of forum mistaken terminology in my opinion.

 

Any and every revolving tradeline counts the same as FICO is concerned: that may not be the case for a given lender's underwriting (vis a vis, Chase vs. Amex competing against each other) but there's nothing intrinsic about a higher credit strata card than even the worst secured or unsecured "subprime" card.

Starting Score: EQ 561, TU 567, EX 599* (12/30/11, EX lender pull 12/29/11)
Current Score: EQ 04 673, EQ 8 707, TU 720, EX 702* (09/02/14, EX older)
Goal Score: 700 on EQ '04 (01/01/15)


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bdhu2001
Posts: 490
Registered: ‎04-24-2014
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Re: Confused About Credit Buckets....


Revelate wrote:

Andy77 wrote:

Ok...thank you for the explanation.  I just would have thought that the fact that I have those prime cards are helping me more then I had thought....

 

 


Prime has nothing to do with FICO: it was a borrower description based on their FICO score, but nothing inside the algorithm itself.  Doesn't even have anything to do with credit cards really, that's a bit of forum mistaken terminology in my opinion.

 

Any and every revolving tradeline counts the same as FICO is concerned: that may not be the case for a given lender's underwriting (vis a vis, Chase vs. Amex competing against each other) but there's nothing intrinsic about a higher credit strata card than even the worst secured or unsecured "subprime" card.


So for someone trying to build their credit and increase their FICO score, a secured vs unsecured is considered the same for the FICO algorithm? That puts a different spin on what I'll advise friends who ask for quick ways to build credit.

Current Score: EX 839 EQ 794:TU 792 on 7/4/14; EQ from myfFico on 6-26-14
Starting Score: EX 751 EQ 720 TU 737 on 4/9/14
Goal Score: 800+
Established Contributor
cashnocredit
Posts: 1,028
Registered: ‎07-18-2009

Re: Confused About Credit Buckets....

"Buckets" also called scorecards, are groups of people with similar attributes like public records,  CAs, BKs, thin files, thick files and such. These are grouped to produce more accurate scoring. There can be score changes when going from one group to another due to boundry conditions and shifts in score weights for the different categories.

 

FICO doesn't currently look at CLs just utlization smodtly nor do they look at whether a card is secured or not. These things do not affect FICO scores.

I have reestablished credit over the last couple years
so my moniker is, well, rather out of date.

WM Discover $1800, WF Plat 12k, Chase Freedom Siggy15k, Amex Plat (60k H/B), Citi AA EWMC 25k
Moderator
Revelate
Posts: 9,640
Registered: ‎12-30-2011

Re: Confused About Credit Buckets....


cashnocredit wrote:

"Buckets" also called scorecards, are groups of people with similar attributes like public records,  CAs, BKs, thin files, thick files and such. These are grouped to produce more accurate scoring. There can be score changes when going from one group to another due to boundry conditions and shifts in score weights for the different categories.

 

FICO doesn't currently look at CLs just utlization smodtly nor do they look at whether a card is secured or not. These things do not affect FICO scores.


+1

 

@bhdu2001: basically it comes down to whether someone trying to build credit has the ability to come up with the security deposits or not; if they can, it's a cheaper and often more effective method for doing so rather than some of the honestly poor new / subprime unsecured credit options... basically if someone is a student, go that route, if you have money for deposits do the secured route, and if you don't have either of those two, get creative and suck up some truly miserable things is my default decision tree for credit building for the vast majority of people.

 

Anyway, the most important finances in our lives (mortgage, auto) are all secured debts, so it's not surprising to me that there's no difference between the two.  

 

Starting Score: EQ 561, TU 567, EX 599* (12/30/11, EX lender pull 12/29/11)
Current Score: EQ 04 673, EQ 8 707, TU 720, EX 702* (09/02/14, EX older)
Goal Score: 700 on EQ '04 (01/01/15)


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Revelate
Posts: 9,640
Registered: ‎12-30-2011
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Re: Confused About Credit Buckets....


Revelate wrote:

Andy77 wrote:

Ok...thank you for the explanation.  I just would have thought that the fact that I have those prime cards are helping me more then I had thought....

 

 


Prime has nothing to do with FICO: it was a borrower description based on their FICO score, but nothing inside the algorithm itself.  Doesn't even have anything to do with credit cards really, that's a bit of forum mistaken terminology in my opinion.

 

Any and every revolving tradeline counts the same as FICO is concerned: that may not be the case for a given lender's underwriting (vis a vis, Chase vs. Amex competing against each other) but there's nothing intrinsic about a higher credit strata card than even the worst secured or unsecured "subprime" card.


For completeness since I made an over-generalization: I and others have theorized there is a michelin-style ranking system in that say national bank card > CU > retail card as a possible example.   Never seen it confirmed one way or another on that, but I was making the comment regarding secured vs. not and realized I may have misstated what may be accurate.

Starting Score: EQ 561, TU 567, EX 599* (12/30/11, EX lender pull 12/29/11)
Current Score: EQ 04 673, EQ 8 707, TU 720, EX 702* (09/02/14, EX older)
Goal Score: 700 on EQ '04 (01/01/15)


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