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Credit Score Spreadsheets

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Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Credit Score Spreadsheets

Yep!  It's for maximizing FICO for whatever reason you may have for it.  Keep in mind that an 11% aggregate utilization can still be risky if it means you have 97% utilization on one card and $0 utilization on 48 other cards, lol.  This spreadsheet just gives you warnings overall on each specific instance of what could trigger an AA or prevent a CLI or get you a denial or whatever.

Message 11 of 38
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Credit Score Spreadsheets

At the risk of taking this conversation completely off path, I still find it amazing that FICO scoring doesn't consider dollars at all, but rather only percentages. 

 

For example, a 97% (maxed out card) is a 97% utilized, maxed out card.  It could be a $500 limit card or a $10000 limit card, yet FICO scoring sees them as equals.  Now, clearly the $10000 limit card at a $9700 balance is going to result in a higher aggregate utilization.  However, again, this is only viewed in percentages.  So, if that individual has say $110k in total credit lines, their one 97% ($9700) maxed out card is still going to land them in single-digit utilization... the same place the other guy with a $485 balance on a $500 card is going to land if he's got say $7000 in total credit limits.

 

These two individuals may both possess equal income levels, say $60k.  Call me crazy, but all other things being equal IMO the guy with $485 in CC debt is far less of a risk than the guy with $9700 in CC debt, although their scores in this example would be identical.  These are the times where I feel that DTI should play at least a minor role in scoring. 

Message 12 of 38
Anonymous
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Re: Credit Score Spreadsheets

Version 1.1.1 update notes

 

  • On utilization page, added "Available Credit" total.
  • On AAoa page, modified equations to reflect month 0 which can bring your AAoA way down (just happened to me today, lol).

I'm thinking of adding a new field to the utilization page that lets you select if a card is a bank card or a store card but not sure if that information is useful or not.  Also considering adding an interest rate and then making a formula to tell you which card to pay off first based on interest accrual but that gets complicated.

Message 13 of 38
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Credit Score Spreadsheets


@Anonymous wrote:

 

 

These two individuals may both possess equal income levels, say $60k.  Call me crazy, but all other things being equal IMO the guy with $485 in CC debt is far less of a risk than the guy with $9700 in CC debt, although their scores in this example would be identical.  These are the times where I feel that DTI should play at least a minor role in scoring. 


This is a tough one for me because I see it both ways, but if I was a bank and the consumer reported their annual income, I believe the only consideration is "how well have they managed past debt, and how much of a CL can they afford based on our underwriting standards?"

 

Someone with just $500 TLs earning $10,000 a year is just as well rated under FICO as someone with $50,000 TLs earning $200,000 a year -- the debt amount isn't a consideration because without income it's tough to rate.  FICO has no income field (yet).

 

I know that my FICO score is low but I also know my affordability is very very high because of a strong income -- but FICO doesn't assume that.  And since I have derogatories, even though I have 5 figures a month of "free" spending available, I am still a risk of future default regardless of balances.  If I could have my dream world, I'd just ask that EVERY credit card offered have a secured option.  Would make sense since the banks would have almost no risk at that point.

Message 14 of 38
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Credit Score Spreadsheets

I'm not saying that income should play a role in and of itself.  I have no problem with someone that earns $10k a year possessing a credit score equal to or greater than someone that earns $100k a year.  My problem is with the level of debt each possesses relative to their income and how much of a risk factor that piece of information is.

 

Going back to my example above, if you have two otherwise equal individuals both earning $60k a year, one has $485 in revolving debt and the other $9700 in revolving debt, if both were to lose their income source tomorrow, which would be a greater risk at missing a payment?  Sure there are other considerations like savings, family/friends that may be able to help out, etc. but again I'm talking all other factors being equal here.  There are examples where that $9700 number could easily be $20k or $30k in CC debt, or a number that someone with $60k in income wouldn't be able to pay off in a reasonable amount of time (it would take years) yet these individuals because they have huge total credit limits are still able to have that debt expressed as a tiny (relative) percentage, thus their score doesn't indicate that debt as being any more of a risk than the guy with $485 in debt that he could pay off with 1 pay check if he wanted to.

 

I mean, pretend you're the underwriter that's considering extending credit to these two people.  Even with identical profiles and income levels, are you more concerned about the guy with $485 in revolving debt or the guy with $25k in revolving debt, even if they both have the same score?  I think most would be more cautious of the person with 50x more debt, so IMO that should be somehow reflected in their score, at least a little anyway. 

Message 15 of 38
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Credit Score Spreadsheets


@Anonymous wrote:

 

I mean, pretend you're the underwriter that's considering extending credit to these two people.  Even with identical profiles and income levels, are you more concerned about the guy with $485 in revolving debt or the guy with $25k in revolving debt, even if they both have the same score?  I think most would be more cautious of the person with 50x more debt, so IMO that should be somehow reflected in their score, at least a little anyway. 


I definitely see where you're coming from but the thing to note isn't just that a person with a high balance is a bigger risk in adverse events, but there's also a reason for extending credit: profit.

 

There's a lot of information we are NOT aware of with each bank -- for example, banks can and do perform regular SPs and those SPs do offer banks some insight into a person's history over time.  Just because FICO is only a snapshot of today's balances doesn't mean that your creditors aren't monitoring your spending and payoffs over time in their own internal database.  So if you have someone with a $485 balance today but they tend to always have low balances versus a guy who has been carrying a variety of balances but also showing payments -- the underwriting's internal analysis software may say "this person is somewhat higher risk of default during an adverse life event, but they're also paying interest and we want a piece of that so let's extend them more credit."

 

The CO rates of each bank vary widely (and wildly) but the banks also have internal indicators for what an individual's profitability might be based on their spending.  The banks need to make money either through merchant processing fees or interest charged (or annual fees, etc) and extending someone who carries a balance but FICO08 shows a tendency to always make payments means that person can be a significant profit point for the bank.

 

If the typical interest rate is around 1.7% a month and the bank's CO rate is under 5% annually per accounts held and the accounts that get CO'd tend to have the highest balances for the longest times, I would figure that the bank is overall making a profit on the riskiest individuals who will do anything to avoid a late payment event.  The bank's interest isn't in zero risk individuals or in maximum risk individuals but in individuals who are just shy of CO/default.

 

There are some folks on various credit forums that I know carry 25-30% utilization on very high limits every month and I know are probably paying more than an average tradeline size in interest annually across all cards and will do whatever it takes to avoid default.  When I read their posts asking about cash advances or balance transfer rituals, I know the bank is profiting and that person is also part of why I can earn my cash back each month at no cost, but the bank LOVES those types and it wouldn't surprise me if their internal analysis software knows what the tipping point will be for overextending credit.

Message 16 of 38
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Credit Score Spreadsheets


@Anonymous wrote:


I definitely see where you're coming from but the thing to note isn't just that a person with a high balance is a bigger risk in adverse events, but there's also a reason for extending credit: profit.



I agree with everything you said, but then we're getting more into the discussion of risk vs profit.  No doubt banks weigh those factors against each other all the time and likely have plenty of data on all of us internally as you suggested.  I'm not talking about that though, I'm talking about FICO score, which is supposed to be a gauge to assess credit risk.  If it was a gauge to assess credit risk and profit, that would be a different story. 

 

There are some credit cards out there, Blispay is the first that always comes to mind for me, where the underwriters definitely see value in a less than perfect score.  For example, people with 820-840 scores have reported denials (as have people with 620-640 scores) but amost everyone in the middle with around 720-740 scores would see approval.  One theory here is that Blispay sees those with 820-840 scores as being "too good" and likely not as profitable.  Thing thing is, though, that score isn't taking into consideration profit, even though profit may be taking into consideration score.  I think it's important to not reverse these two things. 

Message 17 of 38
sarge12
Senior Contributor

Re: Credit Score Spreadsheets


@Anonymous wrote:

At the risk of taking this conversation completely off path, I still find it amazing that FICO scoring doesn't consider dollars at all, but rather only percentages. 

 

For example, a 97% (maxed out card) is a 97% utilized, maxed out card.  It could be a $500 limit card or a $10000 limit card, yet FICO scoring sees them as equals.  Now, clearly the $10000 limit card at a $9700 balance is going to result in a higher aggregate utilization.  However, again, this is only viewed in percentages.  So, if that individual has say $110k in total credit lines, their one 97% ($9700) maxed out card is still going to land them in single-digit utilization... the same place the other guy with a $485 balance on a $500 card is going to land if he's got say $7000 in total credit limits.

 

These two individuals may both possess equal income levels, say $60k.  Call me crazy, but all other things being equal IMO the guy with $485 in CC debt is far less of a risk than the guy with $9700 in CC debt, although their scores in this example would be identical.  These are the times where I feel that DTI should play at least a minor role in scoring. 


BBS....The CRA's would probably like to consider income in their credit scores, but are barred by law from doing so. This was done so the rich deadbeat who never pays ontime would not be treated more favorably on their score than the poor man who works overtime to always meet the due date. To be clear, credit issuers can and do consider DTI in lending activities seperately, but it is not in the score which follows an individual for years. Being unable to consider income in scores, the dollar figure is not very relevant, as 10k of debt is a big deal to the person making 25k a year, but a mere pitance to someone making 750k a year. In order for the dollar figure to be relevant. it must be considered as a percentage of income which as I stated is illegal. Wealthy does not equal responsible in many cases. High credit scores are more a historical measure of the responsible use of credit. The more responsible borrower will recieve higher scores as a result, but if DTI is too high, even the person with an 850 score might be denied the extension of credit due to high DTI...not credit score. Credit scores are not the only factor that can be used in lending decisions.

TU fico08=812 07/16/23
EX fico08=809 07/16/23
EQ fico09=812 07/16/23
EX fico09=821 07/16/23
EQ fico bankcard08=832 07/16/23
TU Fico Bankcard 08=840 07/16/23
EQ NG1 fico=802 04/17/21
EQ Resilience index score=58 03/09/21
Unknown score from EX=784 used by Cap1 07/10/20
Message 18 of 38
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Credit Score Spreadsheets

Updated 1.1.3

  • added a new manual credit pulls section and form (see signature link) and will also populate it from other approvals posted here

 

Message 19 of 38
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Credit Score Spreadsheets

Updated 1.1.4

  • Found a missing warning on the utilization page if all cards are PIF but one card is over 9% so I added a warning now if any card is over 9%.
Message 20 of 38
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