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Did I get rebucketed ?

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Revelate
Moderator Emeritus

Re: Did I get rebucketed ?

They publish the exact number of scorecards in their marketing slicks CGD: I've never ever seen any release as to what goes into them.  That'd be a fascintating exercise though.  The derogatory ones we can probably tease out, but 8 scorecards on clean files, good luck with that given the nature of much of the anecdotal data we get here.




        
Message 11 of 24
Thomas_Thumb
Senior Contributor

Re: Did I get rebucketed ?


@Revelate wrote:

Thomas,

 

What's Liz Weston's source in the bibliography or whatever for the scorecards?  I never saw them in any of the disclosures by bureaus or by the mortgage providers like Credco and similar or at least the released FICO documentation / training that I've seen?

 

Certainly could be, I've never seen a major change with my AAOA, going from 1 -> 2 years back and forth was a swing of 4 points on a FICO 8 algorithm (yawn); however, I'm absolutely in a dirty bucket however it's scored which might negate big time swings as a result of AAOA.  I might get to be able to see 2 vs 3 years as my recent mortgage, CC, PLOC and possible other CC report if they're delayed a little bit as in theory I cross 36 months this month but I haven't gotten any score updates yet; may skew my utilization test as I managed to get a 87% utilization on my itty bitty Freedom card with only a trivial balance on the rest of my cards so going to let it report and will see if there's a big penalty for it or not though hopefully being Chase I can get a report, get 3 score updates with the large percentage change on that tradeline, and then pay it and get another 3 to isolate it.  Crossing fingers haha.

 

Looks like I may have more time on my hands shortly, may go read it anyway.

 


Liz is somewhat circumspect in stating sources but lists the following in her acknowledgements:

 

1) At the top of her list - Craig Watts, spoksman for Far Isaac Corp (along with collegues Rya Sjoblad, Lamont Boyd and Barry Paperno).

2) John Ulzhehimer

3) Gerri Detweiler of UltimateCredit.com

4) Robert Hunter , Consumer Federation of America

5) various other sources mentioned

 

I have seen scorecard QTYs mentioned elsewhere but this is the only publication I know of that specifically defines the 3 factors associated with scorecard assignment.

 

The H/L or +/- for rating for each factor to match the 8 "clean" scorecards (combinations) is based on factorial design - 2 to the 3rd power = 8.The thresholds for each factor, as mentioned, are my guestimate. Liz does not provide threshold values.

 

Please note: Scorecard assignment is just that. It is independent of other factors that affect scores within an assigned scorecard. Published factors are known to include things such as (aggregate utilization %, individual card max out, % or # cards reporting a balance, inquiries, later payments, credit mix, etc... ).

 

It is inferred that each scorecard has its own score range.

 

If so I read it as:: you can not drop below your scorecard's minimum or go above its maximum regardless of how "within scorecard factors" play out. You must trigger an event or reach a threshold (whatever they may be) for score to pass a boundry. Liz does not directly speak to boundry values for scorecards.

 

Fico 9: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850
Fico 8: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850
Fico 4 .....:. EQ 809 TU 823 EX 830 EX Fico 98: 842
Fico 8 BC:. EQ 892 TU 900 EX 900
Fico 8 AU:. EQ 887 TU 897 EX 899
Fico 4 BC:. EQ 826 TU 858, EX Fico 98 BC: 870
Fico 4 AU:. EQ 831 TU 872, EX Fico 98 AU: 861
VS 3.0:...... EQ 835 TU 835 EX 835
CBIS: ........EQ LN Auto 940 EQ LN Home 870 TU Auto 902 TU Home 950
Message 12 of 24
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Did I get rebucketed ?


@NRB525 wrote:

In your CCT report, does that list out your payment history on all your cards on your credit report? Or it's only a summary?

 

Where I'm going with this one is, the months of history are critical to building a score. If they quietly disappear, as far as I know there is no alert or notification that would appear. Only by pulling your full credit report could you compare the prior credit report to see whether one of your accounts, active or closed, has dropped the payment history, is no longer reporting all of it or perhaps any of it.

 

Based on everything else I hear, this is the only factor I can think of that would cause this score drop. The only one. Thus the importance of getting your hands on a full CR for comparison, not a summary.


NRB525,

 

The CCT report that I get every month is full credit report for equifax , transunion and experian with FICO 8 scores . They provide detailed information about the individual accounts ( creditor's name , payment status , status update date , balance , credit limit , payment history etc. , ) just like when you purchase the myFICO reports for $ 19.95  . For positive payment history they highlight the month with green font (months are generally coded as JAN FEB MAR APR MAY ..etc ) . For me the three accounts , that I have mentioned have been reporting since December 2014 and rest of the accounts are reporting what I expect them to be . I have compared this report and previous report , there isnt any difference at all , other than some accounts getting updated as "current" for one more month . What I mean here is "In my previous report , some of the accounts had been updated till July and some of them till June  . With the latest report on August 1st , I see all of them are updated till July" . 

 

All the 8 accounts that I have in addition to auto loan have been reporting payment till July and they havent shown anything abnormal . Do you think if there could be some other stuff that might be hurting me here  ?

Message 13 of 24
NRB525
Super Contributor

Re: Did I get rebucketed ?

Nope, nothing else I'd be concerned about.

 

Given all the information, I'd have to agree that some sort of rebucketing is going on. And given this score hit, I'm just glad I'm not in the 1 year / 3 year phase anymore. That really bites if rebucketing is the case. Talk about early negative feedback for doing what you can to build your credit profile. SMH.

High Bal Jan 2009 $116k on $146k limits 80% Util.
Oct 2014 $46k on $127k 36% util EQ 722 TU 727 EX 727
April 2018 $18k on $344k 5% util EQ 806 TU 810 EX 812
Jan 2019 $7.6k on $360k EQ 832 TU 839 EX 831
March 2021 $33k on $312k EQ 796 TU 798 EX 801
May 2021 Paid all Installments and Mortgages, one new Mortgage EQ 761 TY 774 EX 777
April 2022 EQ=811 TU=807 EX=805 - TU VS 3.0 765
Message 14 of 24
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Did I get rebucketed ?

Thanks guys.  Delighted to hear that the "8 clean scorecards" for FICO 8 can be found in published literature.  I don't have any difficulty believing that Revelate is right that it has been.  He's right about a lot!  :-)  But R if you happen to know where FICO published that I'd be curious to see it.  (Again, not a question of doubt, more just liking to know when I say a thing where and what I am basing it on.)

 

I agree with R too, however, that there are two more interesting questions (which I think R says he hasn't every seen a published source for):

 

(a)  Exactly what factors go into distinguishing the 8 scorecards

 

and

 

(b)  how are those factors are used (breakpoints, etc.)

 

TT, it sounds like Liz is the only one we know who states (a) and that nobody we know states (b).  Her acknowledgments section is midly helpful but doesn't really get to where she found out THAT particular piece of info.  Does she have a footnote or anything that would give us more information about it?  E.g. a footnote referencing Craig Watts, or Ulzheimer, etc.?  I am guessing not, but I am still hoping she does.  If we could know that she is right here, that is important and valuable information to have.

 

If you are willing to tell us the page number and perhaps post a scanned image of the page (or just type out her entire quote) that would also be helpful -- I'd have no problem reaching out to her and asking her if she can tell us more where she found that out.

Message 15 of 24
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Did I get rebucketed ?


@NRB525 wrote:

Nope, nothing else I'd be concerned about.

 

Given all the information, I'd have to agree that some sort of rebucketing is going on. And given this score hit, I'm just glad I'm not in the 1 year / 3 year phase anymore. That really bites if rebucketing is the case. Talk about early negative feedback for doing what you can to build your credit profile. SMH.


NRB525,

 

Since my next big purchase is 2 years away , I believe there is enough time for me to regain back my score . But if this rebucketing is going to happen every August from now on , I may have to prepone or postpone the purchase as far away from August. Do you think rebucketing will be a repetitive pattern that might happen , say next August 2016 , when my old account turns 4 years and AAoA turns 2 years ? I was not able to understand the 8 scorecards stuff that was mentioned in the previous posts . Does it mean every year from now I would be rebucketed  ? Thanks for the inputs. 

Message 16 of 24
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Did I get rebucketed ?

Hey TT.... amazing.  I just discovered that Amazon lets me search inside books for keywords.  Just searched her book for SCORECARD.  So apparently it is on page 24 and I got her exact text too.  I can't see from Amazon whether she includes any endnotes for that chapter.  Again, if you can find out any more about endnote or footnote references that would be great!

 

http://www.amazon.com/Your-Credit-Score-Improve-Financial/dp/0132823497/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&q...

 

 

Message 17 of 24
Thomas_Thumb
Senior Contributor

Re: Did I get rebucketed ?


@Anonymous wrote:

Thanks guys.  Delighted to hear that the "8 clean scorecards" for FICO 8 can be found in published literature.  I don't have any difficulty believing that Revelate is right that it has been.  He's right about a lot!  :-)  But R if you happen to know where FICO published that I'd be curious to see it.  (Again, not a question of doubt, more just liking to know when I say a thing where and what I am basing it on.)

 

I agree with R too, however, that there are two more interesting questions (which I think R says he hasn't every seen a published source for):

 

(a)  Exactly what factors go into distinguishing the 8 scorecards

 

and

 

(b)  how are those factors are used (breakpoints, etc.)

 

TT, it sounds like Liz is the only one we know who states (a) and that nobody we know states (b).  Her acknowledgments section is midly helpful but doesn't really get to where she found out THAT particular piece of info.  Does she have a footnote or anything that would give us more information about it?  E.g. a footnote referencing Craig Watts, or Ulzheimer, etc.?  I am guessing not, but I am still hoping she does.  If we could know that she is right here, that is important and valuable information to have.

 

If you are willing to tell us the page number and perhaps post a scanned image of the page (or just type out her entire quote) that would also be helpful -- I'd have no problem reaching out to her and asking her if she can tell us more where she found that out.


CreditGuyInDixie,

 

The information is listed on page 24 under the heading: "Your Credit Scorecard"

 

As mentioned, Liz does not specify breakpoints for the three primary factors: # accounts, AAoA and youngest account nor does she identify boundries for scorecard values. That she leaves up to us to figure out - game on!

Fico 9: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850
Fico 8: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850
Fico 4 .....:. EQ 809 TU 823 EX 830 EX Fico 98: 842
Fico 8 BC:. EQ 892 TU 900 EX 900
Fico 8 AU:. EQ 887 TU 897 EX 899
Fico 4 BC:. EQ 826 TU 858, EX Fico 98 BC: 870
Fico 4 AU:. EQ 831 TU 872, EX Fico 98 AU: 861
VS 3.0:...... EQ 835 TU 835 EX 835
CBIS: ........EQ LN Auto 940 EQ LN Home 870 TU Auto 902 TU Home 950
Message 18 of 24
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Did I get rebucketed ?

What is rebucketted? Couldn't find it on google
Message 19 of 24
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Did I get rebucketed ?

Hey ssriram2791... is the"next big purchase" you mention a home purchase?

 

I think you don't need to worry about rebucketing as a constant phenomenom.  And I doubt you will lose a gigantic number of points at your next switch bucket switch, which might not be for many years.  This was a lot and was likely linked to your switching into a substantially different age group.  (Interestingly Liz doesn't say it is AAoA but rather describes it as "the age of the accounts" -- which might mean AAoA or the age of your profil, though I agree with TT that she probably means AAoA.)

 

If you are genuinely concerned, and you are really fine with not adding any more credit cards, then you can just wait till your age of oldest account and AAoA turn over an integer value, which they apparently do on the exact same day every year (according to how your profile works).

 

If you were to add no CCs and just age for the next two years (good idea regardless if you have a home purchase planned) then you should have a very nice score by then.

Message 20 of 24
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