Discrepancy between Discover Fico score and Fico Equifax monitoring

[Kazuya]

And by the way he did not go for an auto loan. So

[bdhu2001]

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@Revelate wrote:

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@Kazuya wrote:

The issue is though how we keep hearing about how unreliable and "not real" the FAKO scores are. I understand not every lender has the same model and they should not.

Issues with an auto loan is one thing but when 2 people here post about a 50 point discrepency between their "real score aka fico score" and what a regular personal bank told them in a branch is mind blowing.  We are not talking about a 5, 10, not even 15 point difference but a 50.

If anything I would have thought that the fico scores would be the end of all scores for credit cards and credit lines from banks.

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@user5387 wrote:

The issue here is that the lending industry uses a wide variety of scores, and each scoring model has slightly different weights.  For example, the "auto enhanced" option gives greater weight to past auto loan history.

This makes perfect sense if you're in the lending industry, but it's hard on consumers, who naively believe that there's "one true score".  In reality there isn't.

People on these forums tend to overuse scores, I think, and they assume that if they reach some threshold like 720 then a lender will automatically approve them.  In reality, approval criteria are more complex than this.  It would be better to focus on what's in the report, and try to improve it.  For many cases where a person is denied credit, the reasons are obvious -- poor payment history, maxed out cards, 10 new CCs in the last few months, and so on.

It takes a lot of work to develop a good scoring model, and I personally would be loath to lump them all together, and say that they're doing basically the same thing.  I personally have found it most useful to use my monthly EX 04 / TU 08 scores as general indicators, rather than assuming that there's a single "right" score.

Suppose that MyFico switched to using the 04 scores, thereby matching the mortgage business.  This would solve certain problems, but scores would still not match those used by lenders, because lenders are using proprietary scoring models, along with 08 scores and auto/bankcard enhanced scores.

Or suppose that MyFico makes available the complete 04, 08, auto enhanced, and bankcard enhanced series, for a total of 12 scores.

This would benefit a few people, while leaving most folks terribly confused.

Or suppose that FICO as a company ceases to exist 30 minutes from now, and the vacuum is filled by the Chase Deluxe scoring model (0-500 range), the Citi Supreme model (245-795 range), and the Discover Excelsior model (385-1025 range).

Would things be better off in such a scenario?

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This backlash is all incredibly recent: since myFICO moved the Equifax version from Beacon 5.0 to Beacon 9.0 to be precise.  If you go back 3 months it was a once a month thing and usually resolved within 3-4 replies: we're on page 3 of this one already.

Before this nobody really cared what the score was because Equifax matched a mortgage identically... most people aren't too concerned about their credit card scores as that's an incredibly minor to the point of absolutely trivial measure compared to mortgage qualification. Unfortunately the EQ score here matched the EQ score on a tri-merge pull in a mortgage for literally years, and there's still even dozens if not hundreds of mortgage loan officers out in the wild suggesting that the Equifax score be pulled from myFICO... and suddenly it doesn't match but the world hasn't caught up to that.

Stepping away from any sort of moderator / community lead / wtfever person and just as a consumer:

I can't pretend to understand FICO's rationale on it, and I railed bitterly both against the Equifax change and also the impending Transunion change (lobbying to get it to TU Classic '04 which is another mortgage score but doubt they're going to take my and the rest of the moderators' comments on it... we're just volunteers and this decision was made by actual FICO employees).  As is they're simply driving their subscribers into the hands of Equifax directly: in all my years and through the wars of corporate America I've been involved in, not certain I've ever seen anyone toss their revenues out the window in a similar fashion... if the forums are a loss leader to drive subscription and product revenue for the FICO consumer division, well.... sigh.

FWIW I somewhat cynically hope more complaints are made as I hate the new version personally as the only thing I cared about was mortgage qualification.  Maybe they'll revert back (unlikely) or do something actually smart financially and consumer-focused and update the TU '98 lame duck score here to TU '04... but reports were they wanted to migrate to TU '08, which is available for free to anyone who can qualify for a Walmart store, a Barclays, or a Discover card.

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I couldn't agree more.  Currently the only place I get my morgage score is by pre-qualing for a mortgage loan.  Although, I did sign up for TrustedID (ID theft protection) which gave me an initial score from all three bureaus and my credit report. The scores they provided were in the ballpark of my mortgage scores.  Although it wasn't an exact match either.  

I get my bankcard scores from my bankcards, but I have to admit that's recent and people will apply for credit cards more often than mortgages. Thus, it appears that myFICO is going with the score that people will need and use most often (bankcard) instead of the what people's ultimate score watch goal is (i.e mortgage FICO score).

[bigjim1]

I can assure you after many years in the credit/banking business, if your credit is GOOD enough for a mortgage loan, you WILL qualify for a credit card!  But the reverse is not true at all!  Many people get approved for credit cards who CAN NOT qualify for a mortgage loan based off their credit!

[vanitybag]

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@icloud2525 wrote:

Plus Discover fico is Transunion so it would of course differ from Equifax. 

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Just this month (5/2014) we applied for a Discover card mainly to get a free Fico score every month.   Got a nice card $8500 CL.  A FICO score of 783 and written very plainly it says "PREPARED BY EQUIFAX" Not TU

Go explain them apples.  LOL Just trying to understand where my ducks are so I can get them all in a row.

[mongstradamus]

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@vanitybag wrote:

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@icloud2525 wrote:

Plus Discover fico is Transunion so it would of course differ from Equifax. 

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Just this month (5/2014) we applied for a Discover card mainly to get a free Fico score every month.   Got a nice card $8500 CL.  A FICO score of 783 and written very plainly it says "PREPARED BY EQUIFAX" Not TU

Go explain them apples.  LOL Just trying to understand where my ducks are so I can get them all in a row.

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When you app for discover they pull EQ, when you go for CLI its usually TU. The fico score they offer on your statement is an TU08. 

[Revelate]

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@bigjim1 wrote:

I can assure you after many years in the credit/banking business, if your credit is GOOD enough for a mortgage loan, you WILL qualify for a credit card!  But the reverse is not true at all!  Many people get approved for credit cards who CAN NOT qualify for a mortgage loan based off their credit!

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I don't normally do this but that's not accurate at all.  You can currently qualify for a conventional mortgage from any lender at a 640, and there are many at 620 minimum, at least 1 at 600, and I heard rumors that may have even dropped to 580.

I can list dozens of credit cards which the application would be laughed at even at a FICO of 640 let alone lower than that.  Yes there are some credit cards which can be qualified for below any mortgage underwriting standard when we're talking just FICO scores, but the vast majority which are commonly talked about and suggested on this forum simply aren't.

[Revelate]

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@bdhu2001 wrote:

 I get my bankcard scores from my bankcards, but I have to admit that's recent and people will apply for credit cards more often than mortgages. Thus, it appears that myFICO is going with the score that people will need and use most often (bankcard) instead of the what people's ultimate score watch goal is (i.e mortgage FICO score).

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The only bankcard enhanced industry option scores are from Merrick and FBNO to my knowledge, different scoring range.

The rest of the ones provided by credit cards these days are TU '08 base.  Not certain which ones you were referring too .

[bdhu2001]

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@Revelate wrote:

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@bdhu2001 wrote:

 I get my bankcard scores from my bankcards, but I have to admit that's recent and people will apply for credit cards more often than mortgages. Thus, it appears that myFICO is going with the score that people will need and use most often (bankcard) instead of the what people's ultimate score watch goal is (i.e mortgage FICO score).

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The only bankcard enhanced industry option scores are from Merrick and FBNO to my knowledge, different scoring range.

The rest of the ones provided by credit cards these days are TU '08 base.  Not certain which ones you were referring too .

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There are 49 different FICO scores that lenders use http://www.creditsesame.com/blog/scores-scores-and-more-scores-how-many-fico-credit-scores-do-you-ha...

But important to most of us is that there is a bankcard version,  an auto loan version, and a different version used for mortgages.  For mortgages they use:EQUIFAX/FACTA BEACON 5.0; TRANSUNION/FICO CLASSIC (04); and EXPERIAN/FAIR, ISAAC (VER. 2).  I'm certain that the website is correct about the bankcard versions, because my Discover shows their providing TransUnion FICO Bankcard and my FirstBankcard shows that their usings Experian FICO Bankcard.

[Revelate]

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@bdhu2001 wrote:

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@Revelate wrote:

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@bdhu2001 wrote:

 I get my bankcard scores from my bankcards, but I have to admit that's recent and people will apply for credit cards more often than mortgages. Thus, it appears that myFICO is going with the score that people will need and use most often (bankcard) instead of the what people's ultimate score watch goal is (i.e mortgage FICO score).

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The only bankcard enhanced industry option scores are from Merrick and FBNO to my knowledge, different scoring range.

The rest of the ones provided by credit cards these days are TU '08 base.  Not certain which ones you were referring too .

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There are 49 different FICO scores that lenders use http://www.creditsesame.com/blog/scores-scores-and-more-scores-how-many-fico-credit-scores-do-you-ha...

But important to most of us is that there is a bankcard version,  an auto loan version, and a different version used for mortgages.  For mortgages they use:EQUIFAX/FACTA BEACON 5.0; TRANSUNION/FICO CLASSIC (04); and EXPERIAN/FAIR, ISAAC (VER. 2).  I'm certain that the website is correct about the bankcard versions, because my Discover shows their providing TransUnion FICO Bankcard and my FirstBankcard shows that their usings Experian FICO Bankcard.

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I am well aware of the many versions haha, 18 by my math are commonly used (classic, bankcard, auto, FICO '04 and FICO '08, and EX, EQ TU or 3 x 2 3 x = 18).

What's the score range on the DIscover provided one?  You are correct regarding FBNO, but the Discover version as we understand it is the same product from TU that Walmart and Barclays use.  I'm pretty certain the top score on the Discover one is 850, and you'll see it's different on the FBNO one.

[iv]

@Revelate wrote:

What's the score range on the DIscover provided one?  You are correct regarding FBNO, but the Discover version as we understand it is the same product from TU that Walmart and Barclays use.  I'm pretty certain the top score on the Discover one is 850, and you'll see it's different on the FBNO one.

Discover's TU FICO does appear to top out at 850 (last four months at 850/849/850/844, matching the EQ08/EX08 here), so it's not FICO 8 Bankcard Enhanced, just standard TU FICO 8.