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Rest of file fixed, still with the tax lien (no lates or anything else dirt wise for bucketing), 5/19 and 6/23 pulls, 40 months AAOA so no likely boundary and the FICO 5 datapoint strongly suggests it's uniquely isolated though the FICO 8 BC is a wierd one. Pink highlights things which may be of interest to more than just me. Will be another pull sometime before end of this month to catch 2->1.
FICO 8: 728->729, not much for reason codes (thanks MF).
FICO 8 AU: 726->733
Old: 3. You've recently been looking for credit
New: <it's not on there, installment utilization reason code now in #4)
FICO 8 BC: 734 to 743, this may not be isolated
Old: 4. You've recently opened too many new credit accounts
New: 4. You've recently been looking for credit.
*** Sidebar, I need to go look at some older reports at some point, non 6 mo/1 year/2 year dates obfuscated, listed in descending order
Chase: 1/17 open date
First Tech: 1/17 open date
Disco: 6/16 open date
Citi: 6/25/16 open date
Chase: 6/11/16 open date (this ticked over a year between original 5/19 and new 6/23 pull)
Chase: 8/15 open date
Cap 1: 8/15 open date
JCB: 8/15 open date
Chase: 7/15 open date
Mortgage: 7/15 open date
****
FICO 5: 688 -> 695
Interestingly, same identical 7 points I got back in 2015 during my mortgage process from 3->2; slightly different scorecard (no lates anymore, just the tax lien)
FICO 5 AU: 677-> 682
Old: 3. You've recently been looking for credit
New: 4. You have too few or too many credit accounts
FICO industry option reason codes going pear-shaped I guess, presumably this is too many credit accounts in my case. Hooray, one can have too many accounts on one's file apparently as I've seen suggested in the past. 30 total tradelines, 20 currently open, everything reported within last few months. In a derogatory scorecard. (Edit: forgot about my Chase mortgage which didn't get deleted when transferred, just closed).
FICO 5 BC: 706->712
Old: 4. You've recently been looking for credit
New: more babbling about short credit history (revolving this time specifically in addition to the AAOA and/or AOOA one)
FICO 9: 776->789
FICO 9 AU: 774->785
FICO 9 BC: 772->787
Only FICO 9 reason code change was on the AU industry option:
Old: 4. You've recently been looking for credit
New: 4. You have no recent activity from an auto loan. (have seen this on other AU models previously)
Have you tested a similar datapoint with EX and TU? I'm sort of thinking that the 3 -> 2 (or 2 -> 3) threshold matters across all 3B. I should have a few datapoints myself to share within the next week as I have inquiries dropping off of all 3B (2 on EX, 1 on TU, 1 on EQ).
@Anonymous wrote:Have you tested a similar datapoint with EX and TU? I'm sort of thinking that the 3 -> 2 (or 2 -> 3) threshold matters across all 3B. I should have a few datapoints myself to share within the next week as I have inquiries dropping off of all 3B (2 on EX, 1 on TU, 1 on EQ).
We should probably create one thread for all of this; I have some older datapoints and I once tried tracking it around a year ago in a single thread but that failed miserably like so many other things hah. I can try digging them out of my data or finding the old threads though I know I posted a couple that didn't come up when I tried the MF search (no idea why they don't just outsource the search to Google from a product perspective, get with it Lithium!).
I think there's some behavior differences based on version, model and maybe bureau though like you I suspect 3 is a likely breakpoint based on what data I do have. I think this works the same across all scorecards but that'd be interesting to see too from your data. I think I may have TU from 3 to 2, know I have it 1 to zero and that was a thing. I only really tried to isolate it recently unfortunately so my data is really spotty, and usually because I was tracking something else (like possibly NCAP funsy). Am planning to track EX 4->0 and EQ 3->0 at least, but I will have a major change in scorecard (EX and EQ both get clean) which may skew things.
My thought is I'd like to see if there are bins and find them but I may not have enough inquiries on any report to really do that and it would help tremendously for others to get some data around this too (thank you), on the flipside I haven't had a one day spree like I used to so I didn't have a bunch of inquiries effectively excluded all at once on EX/EQ and can get some hopefully quality data.
Yeah, 1 thread for all of this would definitely be nice.
So I crossed the 1 year mark on my 2016 inquiries that landed on 6/21/16-6/22/16 so I pulled my scores yesterday on 6/24/17. I saw some surprising gains. My last pulled FICO 08 scores on 6/17/17 where in terms of scoreable inquiries I had 4 on EX, 2 on TU and 2 on EQ were EX 804, TU 762, EQ 825. When I pulled my scores yesterday, my scoreable inquiries were halved on all bureaus to 2 on EX, 1 on TU and 1 on EX. Scores as of yesterday were EX 818, TU 764, EQ 835.
My EX score going up 14 points was pretty much expected. When I apped and took 2 EX inquiries last month, my EX score dropped from 822 to 808, so I lost 14 points from those 2 inquiries in going from 2 -> 4. I lost another 4 points bringing me down to 804 after my 3 new accounts all reported. So, me gaining back those 14 points from the inquiries when my 2 older scoreable EX inquiries fell off early this week makes complete sense.
TU is the bureau I'm dirty on, so I don't think anything really happened here. Not from going from 2 -> 1 scoreable inquiry anyway. My TU score was 764 as recent as 5/24/17 and had been at that number since October 2016. On my 6/17/17 pull it was down 2 points to 762 and now it's back at 764. Just seems like a sort of normal little fluctuation here and nothing noteworthy to speak of.
EQ I'm a little perplexed by. The inquiry I took last month when I apped it seems may have dropped me 7 points, as my score went from 841 to 834. This was going from 1 scoreable inquiry to 2 though, which until this moment I always thought that 1 and 2 were "bucketed" together. After 1 of the new accounts reported, my score dropped to 832 and after the 2 others reported I dropped to 825. 1 scoreable inquiry comes off this week, score +10 to 835. I'm guessing this data point isn't as clean as the one I have on EX, since on EQ I saw a -7 for going from 1 -> 2 inquiries then +10 in going from 2 -> 1 about 7 weeks later.
Rev, what are your thoughts on this? Is there a possibility that inquries aren't "bucketed" together (1-2, 3-4, etc) the same way across all bureaus?
Well, I'm not ready to throw binning out altogether but turns out I had a score shift 2->1 too.
I'm going to create a consolidated thread for inquiry datapoint tracking and hopefully we can add to it over time.
Two things from your post:
1) a confirmation datapoint of my old FICO 04 findings that inquiries count full monty the entire year, and on FICO 8 too from your Experian data (thank you) demontrating inquiry penalty is soley based on number of scoreable inquiries within a year, and not on any aging factors. Also that both my dirty scorecard and your clean one behave identically on that point at least.
2) I saw a much smaller gain on some models but it was measurable on every EQ model going from 2 to 1 inquiries, I think this confirms your data that there is a difference between 1 and 2 inquiries at least on Equifax:
Date | 5/19/17 | 6/23/17 | 6/25/17 |
# Inquiries | 3 | 2 | 1 |
EQ FICO 8 | 728 | 729 | 735 |
EQ FICO 8 AU | 726 | 733 | 739 |
EQ FICO 8 BC | 734 | 743 | 749 |
EQ FICO 5 | 688 | 695 | 698 |
EQ FICO 5 AU | 677 | 682 | 685 |
EQ FICO 5 BC | 706 | 712 | 715 |
EQ FICO 9 | 776 | 789 | 790 |
EQ FICO 9 AU | 774 | 785 | 786 |
EQ FICO 9 BC | 772 | 787 | 788 |
One interesting thing to me is on the 2->1 shift, that for each model generation (FICO 5 / 8 / 9) all of the scores moved an identical amount whereas it was close but not quite on the 3->2.
Also an answer to someone else's question from a different thread, inquiries are excluded to the day one year later apparently since the Citi pull was 6/25.
Agreed that there are no aging factors associated with inquiries. I think this is a pretty common misconception though, as in general people tend to see their scores recovering from new accounts anywhere from 50% to even 100% over say the 6 months following adding new accounts. I think many tend to perceive this score bounce-back to inquiries aging, when it's more than likely other factors such as the reduced AAoA [from adding the new accounts] crossing back over a threshold to where it was prior, other inquiries reaching the 1 year mark, possible utilization changes, baddies aging, etc.
Interesting that inquiry binning may not be the case, as we've both seen a change between 1 and 2.
I'm also pretty confident that inquiries become unscoreable at exactly the 1 year mark. Granted I pulled my scores 2 days past the 1 year mark, but it's definitely not anything like the end of the month, 13 months, etc. that some have suggested on the forum in the past.
@Anonymous wrote:Agreed that there are no aging factors associated with inquiries. I think this is a pretty common misconception though, as in general people tend to see their scores recovering from new accounts anywhere from 50% to even 100% over say the 6 months following adding new accounts. I think many tend to perceive this score bounce-back to inquiries aging, when it's more than likely other factors such as the reduced AAoA [from adding the new accounts] crossing back over a threshold to where it was prior, other inquiries reaching the 1 year mark, possible utilization changes, baddies aging, etc.
Interesting that inquiry binning may not be the case, as we've both seen a change between 1 and 2.
I'm also pretty confident that inquiries become unscoreable at exactly the 1 year mark. Granted I pulled my scores 2 days past the 1 year mark, but it's definitely not anything like the end of the month, 13 months, etc. that some have suggested on the forum in the past.
Yeah I'd pulled mine the day after before and seen a change, in this case I wound up pulling the exact day one year later.
You're right on likely other factors playing, I had pretty consistent increases with the start of my rebuild, it wasn't till I got about 2 years into it where my score flatlined, and most people don't stick around that long so the conventional wisdom continues.
My TU datapoint which I put into the consolidated thread did see a change from 1->0 on FICO 04, but not on FICO 8/9 models; that suggests it behaves differently per model... I can't get my 1->0 EQ anytime soon unfortunately since it doesn't get excluded till Februrary 2018.
Oh hey, can get my 4->3 Experian too; missed the 5->4 one during the all zeros testing and EX excluding my remaining lates resulting in a scorecard change, too many variables to get a clean datapoint unfortunately.