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Senior Contributor
smallfry
Posts: 4,831
Registered: ‎04-20-2007
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Re: FICO doesn't understand the credit card game

Just Curious you really only need FICO scores over 720 to get just about the best rates on a car loan or a mortgage. 760 is best and above that is just for bragging rights. I would bet that even without a reporting car loan or home mortgage you would gain quite a few points in a month if you move your payments up to before the statement cut dates. Experiment a little. Try letting 0 report then 1 then 2 and so on. See what works best.
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fused
Posts: 16,321
Registered: ‎03-12-2007
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Re: FICO doesn't understand the credit card game

Unless I'm blind and the OP posted their scores, this discussion cannot move along until the original poster shares their scores.
Credit Profile -
FICO 08 Scores (08-15-2014): EQ 820, EX 817, TU 814
All three scores were 850. Lost points for not having an open installment TL. So, BE WARNED!!!!!
Credit History: 26+ years ~ AAoA: 12 years ~ Util: 1% ~ Inqs: EX 1 (Amex 07-15-2014)

Credit Cards -
Amex BCP 25K ~ Amex Clear 25K ~ Amex Platinum NPSL ~ Chase Freedom Visa 19.3K ~ CITI Dividend World Mastercard 20.3K ~ FIA Fidelity Investments Platinum Plus Visa 40K ~ A Gold Visa with my local bank 10K
Super Contributor
MidnightVoice
Posts: 8,158
Registered: ‎03-25-2007
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Re: FICO doesn't understand the credit card game



fused wrote:
Unless I'm blind and the OP posted their scores, this discussion cannot move along until the original poster shares their scores.



just_curious wrote:
 
Background - I have a good score with all three credit bureaus, but only at around the 60% of the population level. 


which in theory is around 700 - 740  if my memory of the distribution figures holds true, with 723 being the average.  Depends what he means by 60% of the population level
The slide from grace is really more like gliding
And I've found the trick is not to stop the sliding
But to find a graceful way of staying slid
Moderator Emeritus
fused
Posts: 16,321
Registered: ‎03-12-2007
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Re: FICO doesn't understand the credit card game



MidnightVoice wrote:


fused wrote:
Unless I'm blind and the OP posted their scores, this discussion cannot move along until the original poster shares their scores.



just_curious wrote:
 
Background - I have a good score with all three credit bureaus, but only at around the 60% of the population level. 


which in theory is around 700 - 740  if my memory of the distribution figures holds true, with 723 being the average.  Depends what he means by 60% of the population level


Problem here is 700 = good and 740 = very good. Hopefully the OP returns and posts their exact scores and not a range in scores.
Credit Profile -
FICO 08 Scores (08-15-2014): EQ 820, EX 817, TU 814
All three scores were 850. Lost points for not having an open installment TL. So, BE WARNED!!!!!
Credit History: 26+ years ~ AAoA: 12 years ~ Util: 1% ~ Inqs: EX 1 (Amex 07-15-2014)

Credit Cards -
Amex BCP 25K ~ Amex Clear 25K ~ Amex Platinum NPSL ~ Chase Freedom Visa 19.3K ~ CITI Dividend World Mastercard 20.3K ~ FIA Fidelity Investments Platinum Plus Visa 40K ~ A Gold Visa with my local bank 10K
Mega Contributor
RobertEG
Posts: 17,456
Registered: ‎03-19-2007
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Re: FICO doesn't understand the credit card game

A blistering post upon reality!  Never, ever, has anyone suggested that FICO is the begin or end all of credit worthiness.  But if FICO becomes an issue in any credit situation, you dont have to agree that their scoring systems makes sense.  You just have to live with it, and if you need it in any credit decision, know the rules of the FICO road.  That is what this forum is all about... not seeking logic, but seeking wisdom. Pontification upon the rights or wrongs of FICO algorithm is like pissing in the wind.  It only soils your own jeans!
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Epic Contributor
haulingthescoreup
Posts: 28,115
Registered: ‎04-01-2007
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Re: FICO doesn't understand the credit card game


RobertEG wrote: That is what this forum is all about... not seeking logic, but seeking wisdom.
Nope, sorry, I want logic! lol
* Credit is a wonderful servant, but a terrible master. * Who's the boss --you or your credit?
FICO's: EQ 781 - TU 793 - EX 779 (from PSECU) - Done credit hunting; having fun with credit gardening. - EQ 590 on 5/14/2007
Regular Contributor
gNaRKiLL
Posts: 135
Registered: ‎11-11-2007
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Re: FICO doesn't understand the credit card game

This is a great thread being new to this game its all starting to make sense to me. 
Member
just_curious
Posts: 15
Registered: ‎11-12-2007
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Re: FICO doesn't understand the credit card game



RobertEG wrote:
A blistering post upon reality!  Never, ever, has anyone suggested that FICO is the begin or end all of credit worthiness.  But if FICO becomes an issue in any credit situation, you dont have to agree that their scoring systems makes sense.  You just have to live with it, and if you need it in any credit decision, know the rules of the FICO road.  That is what this forum is all about... not seeking logic, but seeking wisdom. Pontification upon the rights or wrongs of FICO algorithm is like pissing in the wind.  It only soils your own jeans!


Well, that may be correct, although my jeans are clean at the moment.  Here's the issue - in a world where credit scores are checked by everyone from landlords to employers, you have to wonder how Fair Issac gets away with such an illogical approach.  That is what got me started on all this - the complete lack of logic.  And please understand, the info to prove I pay off all my cards completely every month is readily available (e.g. - no interest charges).  Why wouldn't that be relevant to FICO even without income and asset info?????  How can a credit score be valid without that data point?
 
Please note - my personal situation is unaffected by this issue (although I know others not so lucky).  I don't need credit at the moment, and I understand that the Private Bankers who want my business can read my personal financial info and "get over" the FICO problem to realize I am "worthy" of the most favorable rates out there.
 
To respond about my own scores - the estimates that I am in the 720 to 740 area are right, at least the last time I checked them (a few weeks ago).  I would guess mine may jump around quite a bit if the usage factor is as big a deal as many say it is (Yes - I have read that thread of speculation, so I know there is some uncertainty).  I used credit cards for lots of big ($10,000 and up) purchases, and manage my selection of cards for these charges for the rewards I prefer at the time, not to avoid using my credit limits.
 
By the way, I also have some cards with good limits (>$25,000) which have very low usage every month.  Apparently the algorithm looks to see if one or two (some say three) cards are above 50% and deducts points for that, even if there are others at 0.1% or 0.2%.  Again - if they just considered that the card is PIF every month, they might start to get it right.
 
How hard would that be after all????  
Super Contributor
MidnightVoice
Posts: 8,158
Registered: ‎03-25-2007
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Re: FICO doesn't understand the credit card game



just_curious wrote:

. And please understand, the info to prove I pay off all my cards completely every month is readily available (e.g. - no interest charges).  Why wouldn't that be relevant to FICO even without income and asset info?????  How can a credit score be valid without that data point?

 

I do not believe that the information mentioned above is available to Fair Isaac.  Hence they do not know if you pay off every month or not.  And it is valid because it is what it is - a statistical estimation of your credit worthiness as defined by a certain set of criteria
 


just_curious wrote:

 
By the way, I also have some cards with good limits (>$25,000) which have very low usage every month.   


Try calculating your own utilization - it is possible that cards over $20,000 are not considered bas revolving credit


just_curious wrote:
 
Well, that may be correct, although my jeans are clean at the moment.  Here's the issue - in a world where credit scores are checked by everyone from landlords to employers, you have to wonder how Fair Isaac gets away with such an illogical approach. 


The statistics would suggest that it NOT illogical - statistically it works.
 
So if you don't need credit at the moment - ignore your scores.  If you ever do need credit - just play the game.  Remember the introduction to "Princess Bride" - one needs to learn the lesson that life is not fair, and that needs to play the game.

The slide from grace is really more like gliding
And I've found the trick is not to stop the sliding
But to find a graceful way of staying slid
New Member
Confused_About_FICO_Score
Posts: 10
Registered: ‎11-14-2007
0

Re: FICO doesn't understand the credit card game

FICO does NOT understand modern credit card usage, indeed. I for one do not like cash. I dont like to be short of 5 bucks at the grocery store. I dont like to go to the bank with 5 lb of change to count it and deposit it. What do I do? I charge to the credit card and pay the balance off in full before the due date. Also, I would be STUPID to not pay with department store cards and get 20% or more off on my purchases.

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