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Super Contributor
MidnightVoice
Posts: 8,158
Registered: ‎03-25-2007

Re: FICO doesn't understand the credit card game



just_curious wrote:


haulingthescoreup wrote:
I for one do not want anything more reported to the CRA's than what already is. One snapshot of my credit usage per month is plenty, thank you. And if they start reporting mid-cycle balances, or whether I PIF'd after the balance was reported, or my average balance over the month, that is just additional opportunities for things to get screwed up. And that means more crap that I have to try to clean up.

Actually, I was suggesting that FICO simply be told if a CC account is not charged interest, thus is PIF each month.  It is amazing that they try to set a CS without considering this aspect of CC usage.  And I can't see it as a big deal to add one, binary item to the info mix.
 
And the posting about all the other ways your FICO score can impact your life is right on point.  With the power FICO has developed, I would think a 95% accuracy rate (mentioned elsewhere) would be unacceptable - try applying a 95% accuracy rate in a few other aspects of life and you'll see what I mean.



That 95% is used in all walks of life - for example, medicine :smileyvery-happy:
The slide from grace is really more like gliding
And I've found the trick is not to stop the sliding
But to find a graceful way of staying slid
Moderator Emeritus
Timothy
Posts: 9,252
Registered: ‎03-19-2007

Re: FICO doesn't understand the credit card game

Most cards report "previous Balance" and "Last Payment"
If FICO wanted to take this into account(PUN) they could-
Valued Member
JuliaTN
Posts: 68
Registered: ‎11-07-2007

Re: FICO doesn't understand the credit card game

"Actually - that's a reasonable question.  My personal scores are very unlikely to impact my life at all.  My various CCs have very high limits ($20,000+) so the issue is really not about me."
 
Yes, it's about me...
 
I have about $100,000 in credit card limits, maxed out every month and PIF each month. I, too, have NEVER had a late payment on any loan, CC, etc. My oldest accout is about 15 years, no inquiries etc. Yet my EX FICO is 655. I need to get a mortgage for an investment property but I can't get the rate that I think I "deserve" with that score.
 
And, no, I don't have $100,000 in income to pay off credit cards every month. The family business uses my (rewards) cards to pay all of its AP. The business gets an extra 30 days worth of cash flow and I get a free vacation each year as well as about a 30% boost in (my very modest) income from the cash back. Am I about to give up those benefits? No, so now I've added an extra column to my spreadsheet that I use to keep track of all the cards the business uses: "Statement closing date." Just so I can play the FICO game and pay the cards off the day before the statement instead of a week later.
 
It's awfully annoying that instead of just being my paying-on-time self, I have to manipulate the system to make myself look better to potential creditors...
Super Contributor
MidnightVoice
Posts: 8,158
Registered: ‎03-25-2007

Re: FICO doesn't understand the credit card game



JuliaTN wrote:
 
It's awfully annoying that instead of just being my paying-on-time self, I have to manipulate the system to make myself look better to potential creditors...


I agree it it is irritating, but:
 
If you NEED a high score, and if util is your only problem on your CR, then playing the game for a couple of months will drive your score to where it should be very quickly, and once you have the mortgage you can revert to your old self.
 
Alternatively, you can take your CRs to a mortgage broker or a CU, explain the situation and see what they can do
The slide from grace is really more like gliding
And I've found the trick is not to stop the sliding
But to find a graceful way of staying slid
Moderator Emeritus
Timothy
Posts: 9,252
Registered: ‎03-19-2007

Re: FICO doesn't understand the credit card game

Can't wait to see your results-

And nothing say you can't open a biz card or 2 and link the rewards to your personal rewards.



JuliaTN wrote:
"Actually - that's a reasonable question. My personal scores are very unlikely to impact my life at all. My various CCs have very high limits ($20,000+) so the issue is really not about me."
Yes, it's about me...
I have about $100,000 in credit card limits, maxed out every month and PIF each month. I, too, have NEVER had a late payment on any loan, CC, etc. My oldest account is about 15 years, no inquiries etc. Yet my EX FICO is 655. I need to get a mortgage for an investment property but I can't get the rate that I think I "deserve" with that score.
And, no, I don't have $100,000 in income to pay off credit cards every month. The family business uses my (rewards) cards to pay all of its AP. The business gets an extra 30 days worth of cash flow and I get a free vacation each year as well as about a 30% boost in (my very modest) income from the cash back. Am I about to give up those benefits? No, so now I've added an extra column to my spreadsheet that I use to keep track of all the cards the business uses: "Statement closing date." Just so I can play the FICO game and pay the cards off the day before the statement instead of a week later.
It's awfully annoying that instead of just being my paying-on-time self, I have to manipulate the system to make myself look better to potential creditors...



Frequent Contributor
TheCynicalOne
Posts: 741
Registered: ‎11-05-2007

Re: FICO doesn't understand the credit card game



JuliaTN wrote:
It's awfully annoying that instead of just being my paying-on-time self, I have to manipulate the system to make myself look better to potential creditors...



My friend...
 
You just summed up the entire Fico system in one sentence.
Time is credit's best friend...it can heal any wound.
Member
just_curious
Posts: 15
Registered: ‎11-12-2007

Re: FICO doesn't understand the credit card game


JuliaTN wrote:
"I have about $100,000 in credit card limits, maxed out every month and PIF each month. I, too, have NEVER had a late payment on any loan, CC, etc. My oldest accout is about 15 years, no inquiries etc. Yet my EX FICO is 655. I need to get a mortgage for an investment property but I can't get the rate that I think I "deserve" with that score.
 
It's awfully annoying that instead of just being my paying-on-time self, I have to manipulate the system to make myself look better to potential creditors...


Yup - my point exactly  With CC limits that exceed $200,000 (not counting two cards with no limits), a perfect payment record, and the income to support all this, Fair Issac's simpleminded algorithm simply can't get it right.
 
OK  I have heard/seen all the "It's not logical - just live with it" comments.  But why is that the right system?  FICO scores are important beyond just the next credit card, and, as Julia apparently could testify, they can mess up one's life even if they are just plain wrong.  So, here's an idea -  just determine if the accounts are PIF every month and fix the algorithm to reflect that POSITIVE fact.  It should be easy!
 
I would like BARRY the FICO guy to respond.  How can we get him to join this discussion???
Super Contributor
MidnightVoice
Posts: 8,158
Registered: ‎03-25-2007

Re: FICO doesn't understand the credit card game



just_curious wrote:

JuliaTN wrote:
"I have about $100,000 in credit card limits, maxed out every month and PIF each month. I, too, have NEVER had a late payment on any loan, CC, etc. My oldest accout is about 15 years, no inquiries etc. Yet my EX FICO is 655. I need to get a mortgage for an investment property but I can't get the rate that I think I "deserve" with that score.
 
It's awfully annoying that instead of just being my paying-on-time self, I have to manipulate the system to make myself look better to potential creditors...


Yup - my point exactly  With CC limits that exceed $200,000 (not counting two cards with no limits), a perfect payment record, and the income to support all this, Fair Issac's simpleminded algorithm simply can't get it right.
 
OK  I have heard/seen all the "It's not logical - just live with it" comments.  But why is that the right system?  FICO scores are important beyond just the next credit card, and, as Julia apparently could testify, they can mess up one's life even if they are just plain wrong.  So, here's an idea -  just determine if the accounts are PIF every month and fix the algorithm to reflect that POSITIVE fact.  It should be easy!
 
I would like BARRY the FICO guy to respond.  How can we get him to join this discussion???



You could put a serious question in the Feedback forum, or PM Barry if you wanted
The slide from grace is really more like gliding
And I've found the trick is not to stop the sliding
But to find a graceful way of staying slid
New Member
SCAMBUSTER
Posts: 3
Registered: ‎09-15-2007

Re: FICO doesn't understand the credit card game

LADIES AND GENTS.....I NEED TO VENT!!!!!
 
FICO and all the other scoring systems  are a bunch of horse caca. Plain and simple, if the scoring system was truely on the up and up, FICO and the rest of them "scoring scammers" would let the public in on the formula. I find it very hard to believe that an accurate formula can zap someone out of 20 points in an instant yet take 4 times as long to gain the 20 points back, even if the accounts were brought back to how they were prior to the 20 point zap. The banks, credit card companies in general , and the three credit reporting agencies are all playing games with the consumers. Honestly, I feel it is time to file a class action suit against all three credit reporting agencies as well as several banks (especially HSBC).  
 
-There is no accuracy in the credit reporting system. The three reporting agencies report what is given to them without accurately varyfying the information. Pretty much it follows a GARBAGE IN - GARBAGE OUT protocol. This pretty much SUCKS since jobs, insurance and a whole lot of other things in everyday life hinges on credit reports and scores.
 
- Credit scores do not accurately portray the financial character of a person. If someone has a low score as in the 400 or 500's , that person could be perceived to be a dead beat or someone that can not be trusted (eg. getting a job handling money). I will argue that since the credit information is accessible to people that may not be the ones who originally requested the file, the score can be damaging in more ways than one. Perhaps a good attorney can make a case that this a type of  libel. I
 
- I have a suggestion. Let the government have a centralized credit agency. ONE!!! just one stinking reporting agency that gets it right. No more making money selling scores and credit reports. Everyone should be entitled to see, for FREE, that which can adversely affect their lives (that includes the scores), AT ANY TIME. The way  I see it, IT'S ALL ABOUT THE STINKING MONEY. A FREAKING RIP-OFF. CAPITALISM GONE CRAZY.
 
I challenge anyone out there to prove to me with imperical data that what I am saying is incorrect. Sway me, if you can , into believing that the system is fair and accurate. I am prepeared to start a campaign to correct the credit reporting industry in this country, to go after the financial institutions that screw the public without mercy, and to make the government accountable for allowing the banks and other financial institutions to write their own tickets without consequences. Have you seen them "change of terms" clauses in your credit card contracts? The only business enterprises that are allowed to write such open ended contracts are the credit card companies. It is UnConscienable!!
Oh, and if you are a Ra-Ra, pro credit individual, don't feed me the bs line that we signed the agreement so we are stuck. Unfortunately, without credit history you are pretty much screwed in this good ole USA. The banks know it, the credit card companies know it so the public is caught in a catch 22. IT IS AN ILLOGICAL SYSTEM. IT IS RIGGED SO THAT THE RICH GET FILTHY RICH AND THE POOR JUST GET FILTHY.
 
So what are you going to do about it? Am I the only one totally ticked off about this? And by the way, the 89 bucks that I spent on tracking my score, A TOTAL WASTE OF MONEY. I should have gone to the casino and played the nickel machines.
Super Contributor
marty56
Posts: 5,679
Registered: ‎10-06-2007

Re: FICO doesn't understand the credit card game

[ Edited ]
Would you really trust the government to manage our credit?
 
I cant speak for everyone but every bad mark on my credit report was my fault.  It took me 5 years to get my score over 700 and I have 2 more to go before the bad info gets removed.  I finished a CCC program in 4,5 years.
 
Whem I bought my house 4 years ago, I has to pay 2% higher interest on the loan because my scores showed I was a risk even though I had 2 late payments 30 days over 7 years.  Most of my score was due to the 66K debt I had.
 
I was a risk paper wise but in reality I wasnt, but there is no system that can read minds and determine intent.
 
The system might not be perfect and in my case it misjudged me, but it works for the majority of people.
 
No one wants the government involvement in thir lives.  Imagine an  IRS-like agency doing credit monitoring.
 


Message Edited by marty56 on 11-23-2007 12:47 PM
09/12/2013 FICO: EQ: 772 EX:813 TU:752

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