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Member
Posts: 20
Registered: ‎04-08-2007
0

I repeat, if it's an old debt ....

how can it be a red flag about current conditions? If we're going to use analogies, I will use the weather. If the weatherman knows that a year ago today conditions indicated intense thunderstorms, would he warn people to expect them today? No, because those conditions existed a year ago.
 
It's the same with this issue: if this thing is in collections, then it's OLD. If it's old, and I have been paying bills all this time with no problem, why is it a "huge red flag" about my current ability to pay? Logic really does have to enter the picture at some point, unless you are truly committed to the FICO view at all costs.
Moderator Emeritus
Posts: 5,436
Registered: ‎03-10-2007
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Lets try the weatherman scenario

[ Edited ]


minonda wrote:
how can it be a red flag about current conditions? If we're going to use analogies, I will use the weather. If the weatherman knows that a year ago today conditions indicated intense thunderstorms, would he warn people to expect them today? No, because those conditions existed a year ago.
 
It's the same with this issue: if this thing is in collections, then it's OLD. If it's old, and I have been paying bills all this time with no problem, why is it a "huge red flag" about my current ability to pay? Logic really does have to enter the picture at some point, unless you are truly committed to the FICO view at all costs.


 
No one is committeed to any view its just the way the thing works.  Its not fair to play the game without knowing therules but thats why this board is here. Now on to the weatherman scenario....
 
On Monday, the guy says sunny with highs i the 80s all week long.  Everyones grabbing their swmmies to head to the lake.  Just like your credit card companies are all trying to jump into your pocket by extending credit.  There's a snafu.  His feed from the National Weather service about a storm fron didn't come through.  Suddenly you see the red crawler at the bottom of the screen warning about the POSSIBILITY of severe weather.  Not saying YOUR particular house will get taken to Oz, just that something new has come up.  Everyone changes plans as the crawler continues.... same with your creditors.  They aren't saying you WILL default but they will cover their butts in case you do,
 
Here's a fact.  No one with a 762 has an active collection on their account.  That's why they are at 762.  The credit was exteded based on the fact that you had the history you did for so long, had the collection been added to the account at the time they say it wasdue, you would never have acheived the score of 762 no matter how you paid your bills and thus wouldn't have the history you do..
 
For a bill that small, if I couldnt produce my proof, I would pay it again with the written understanding that it would be deleted.  One heck of a lot better than the damage to your FICO.


Message Edited by Brammy on 04-09-2007 07:41 AM
Member
Posts: 20
Registered: ‎04-08-2007
0

I give

I did pay the bill, and have a copy of the canceled check. I plan to take the steps you recommended earlier in order to get this resolved. I do recall in a much earlier post you said they "might remove it" raising some question in my mind and adding to my anxiety. Now you sound pretty sure that this can be settled easily.
 
As for accepting things the way they are, you can all do that if you want to. I still say it's not fair to affect fundmental capabilities in a person's life without full information. If they can put a man  on the moon, they should be able to come up with a formula that does not paint with a broad brush.
 
Again, I lose, you win. Nothing I say will convince anyone that this system is not fair and needs revising, so I give up. Thanks for the information you have given me.
Moderator Emeritus
Posts: 5,436
Registered: ‎03-10-2007
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But that's the point



minonda wrote:
I did pay the bill, and have a copy of the canceled check. I plan to take the steps you recommended earlier in order to get this resolved. I do recall in a much earlier post you said they "might remove it" raising some question in my mind and adding to my anxiety. Now you sound pretty sure that this can be settled easily.
 
As for accepting things the way they are, you can all do that if you want to. I still say it's not fair to affect fundmental capabilities in a person's life without full information. If they can put a man  on the moon, they should be able to come up with a formula that does not paint with a broad brush.
 
Again, I lose, you win. Nothing I say will convince anyone that this system is not fair and needs revising, so I give up. Thanks for the information you have given me.


 
M
 
No one is saying it IS fair, its just the rules of the game.  Fico is based on every consumer with a credit profile and their likelihood of default based on a set algorithm. Something they will not reveal so people can't skew their scores. No I don't think its fair to have to play a game without knowing the rules especially when the stakes are so high.  My credit scores stayed perpetually low because I did not know that I need more credit to improve it.  Nor did I know that low credit limits actually HURT your score.  The only thing I could depend on was the experience of others and their experience with changes to their FICO scores.
 
 I filed BK in 2000 due to medical bills and a major loss of income.  My current credit accounts and all past credit accounts (with the exception of medical collections and a few things I forgot to IIB) were paid as agreed but no matter what, I will pay for that BK for the next ten years no matter how well I pay my bills. The FICO does not care why it just knows what is.
 
The funny thing is once the BK does drop from my reports, I am just as likely to take a score hit as a score boost.  At that time I will be compared to people who have NEVER had a bk on file.  With the short history I will probably drop 100 points myself.

New Visitor
Posts: 2
Registered: ‎04-11-2007
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Re: But that's the point

This entire thread is a great argument for the immediate abolition of the FICO model.  ugh. 30%, 40% just black and white as this has shown- no grays and NO consideration of my "ability to pay" like salary, employment status, and things like that.  Ridiculous.  Sorry, but credit "history" is like a roulette wheel - my past credit history does NOT accurately predict my future unless you can also predict layoffs, heart attacks, and hurricanes.
Moderator Emeritus
Posts: 5,436
Registered: ‎03-10-2007
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Re: But that's the point

[ Edited ]


ramsc wrote:
This entire thread is a great argument for the immediate abolition of the FICO model.  ugh. 30%, 40% just black and white as this has shown- no grays and NO consideration of my "ability to pay" like salary, employment status, and things like that.  Ridiculous.  Sorry, but credit "history" is like a roulette wheel - my past credit history does NOT accurately predict my future unless you can also predict layoffs, heart attacks, and hurricanes.


 
You are right it doesn't accurately depict your abillity to repay but the model has been quite accurate for some time.  In addition to your fico score lenders DO look at your income and employment history.  That's why the info is requested when you make application.  The FICO score is just one tool a lender uses to determine your overall credit worthiness.



Message Edited by Brammy on 04-11-2007 10:59 AM

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