@taxi818 wrote:
@EW800 wrote:As a side note to this topic, I sure hope at some point in the not too distant future we might have a way to obtain our FICO 9 scores. I have been quite curious about what my FICO 9 scores are, given that my Vantage 3.0 scores are roughly 75 points higher than my FICO 8 scores. I am curious as to which model my FICO 9 scores are closest to.
Well EW. this has been discussed many times in the past. of course it is basically the same as Fico 8 one noticible change only. or 2 depending how you look at it.
It has 1 . medical collections will not be counted in your score.
Any paid collections will also no longer be considered negative. this will encourage people to pay those old collections as in current system is better to not pay it. as you score will suffer the same. fico 9 realized. people make mistakes and over look things some times. which should not be reflected asap in the credit scoring system. so if you pay a bill like a collection. however late. the fact you paid it. will allow your score to recover. that is the only difference. Too bad. just like vantage. not many lenders have adopoted it. just like fico 8. only in the last 18 months have lenders truly adopted it. but as it implies it came out in 2008. So it may be many years before lenders start to adopt fico 9. im thinking of my credit union. which is stil using. Equifax beacon 5.0. i hate that score.
That's just the announced changes; even if you look at FICO 04 to FICO 8 there's things which they do handle differently (like installment tradeline utilization apparently) so there may be additional changes under the hood.
That said, at least for collections that's a huge difference from the prior algorithms. Penalizing someone for welshing on a debt, sure, but penalizing again for getting righteous? That's just dumb and while there were other ways they could've addressed that, it's fixed neatly with FICO 9.
@Revelate wrote:
@taxi818 wrote:
@EW800 wrote:As a side note to this topic, I sure hope at some point in the not too distant future we might have a way to obtain our FICO 9 scores. I have been quite curious about what my FICO 9 scores are, given that my Vantage 3.0 scores are roughly 75 points higher than my FICO 8 scores. I am curious as to which model my FICO 9 scores are closest to.
Well EW. this has been discussed many times in the past. of course it is basically the same as Fico 8 one noticible change only. or 2 depending how you look at it.
It has 1 . medical collections will not be counted in your score.
Any paid collections will also no longer be considered negative. this will encourage people to pay those old collections as in current system is better to not pay it. as you score will suffer the same. fico 9 realized. people make mistakes and over look things some times. which should not be reflected asap in the credit scoring system. so if you pay a bill like a collection. however late. the fact you paid it. will allow your score to recover. that is the only difference. Too bad. just like vantage. not many lenders have adopoted it. just like fico 8. only in the last 18 months have lenders truly adopted it. but as it implies it came out in 2008. So it may be many years before lenders start to adopt fico 9. im thinking of my credit union. which is stil using. Equifax beacon 5.0. i hate that score.
That's just the announced changes; even if you look at FICO 04 to FICO 8 there's things which they do handle differently (like installment tradeline utilization apparently) so there may be additional changes under the hood.
That said, at least for collections that's a huge difference from the prior algorithms. Penalizing someone for welshing on a debt, sure, but penalizing again for getting righteous? That's just dumb and while there were other ways they could've addressed that, it's fixed neatly with FICO 9.
So true. Still not convinced how installment utilization works. Or affects overall score.
@taxi818 wrote:
@Revelate wrote:
@taxi818 wrote:
@EW800 wrote:As a side note to this topic, I sure hope at some point in the not too distant future we might have a way to obtain our FICO 9 scores. I have been quite curious about what my FICO 9 scores are, given that my Vantage 3.0 scores are roughly 75 points higher than my FICO 8 scores. I am curious as to which model my FICO 9 scores are closest to.
Well EW. this has been discussed many times in the past. of course it is basically the same as Fico 8 one noticible change only. or 2 depending how you look at it.
It has 1 . medical collections will not be counted in your score.
Any paid collections will also no longer be considered negative. this will encourage people to pay those old collections as in current system is better to not pay it. as you score will suffer the same. fico 9 realized. people make mistakes and over look things some times. which should not be reflected asap in the credit scoring system. so if you pay a bill like a collection. however late. the fact you paid it. will allow your score to recover. that is the only difference. Too bad. just like vantage. not many lenders have adopoted it. just like fico 8. only in the last 18 months have lenders truly adopted it. but as it implies it came out in 2008. So it may be many years before lenders start to adopt fico 9. im thinking of my credit union. which is stil using. Equifax beacon 5.0. i hate that score.
That's just the announced changes; even if you look at FICO 04 to FICO 8 there's things which they do handle differently (like installment tradeline utilization apparently) so there may be additional changes under the hood.
That said, at least for collections that's a huge difference from the prior algorithms. Penalizing someone for welshing on a debt, sure, but penalizing again for getting righteous? That's just dumb and while there were other ways they could've addressed that, it's fixed neatly with FICO 9.
So true. Still not convinced how installment utilization works. Or affects overall score.
Well it was really only recently on this forum that we even suggested it was a thing. FICO 8 data wasn't making sense to me and then got as clean a datapoint as possible with the way the algorithm works and it sure looks like it matters and is pretty simple to calculate.
Which means if true it'll be fairly simple to manipulate too for us FICO strategists but meh. If my mortgage isn't counted against my installment utilization (and that's a big if) I'm going to try some moderately dumb things to figure that out.
@TomBarrister wrote:I realize that this is an old thread.
To give perspective, I had several recent inquiries on each of my credit bureau accounts, no late payments, collections or bankruptcies. Naturally this dragged down my scores to about 600 for the Vantage 3.0 and 645 for the Fico-8.
10 days ago, after about 2 months without an inquiry, I applied for two alltgedly pre-approved offers. I knew from the wording of the applications that there would be hard pulls for both. Before I applied, my Vantage 3.0 scores were in the 630 range for each, and my Fico-8 was around 680. My utilization had fallen from 31% to 22%, but nothing else had changed much. One did two hard pulls and the third did one hard pull. Each bureau got exactly one hard pull. Because of one hard pull, combined (I assume) with the many other recent inquiries, my FICO-8 dropped 1-3 points, to around 677. My Vantage 3.0 scores plummeted over 65 points on each, to around 567.
So apparently the way they date recent inquiries has a major effect on Vantage 3.0, not as much on Fico-8.
I understand that the Vantage 3.0 inquire window is 14 days, so it may change again in a few days. In the meantime, it will be at least a year before I apply for anything that doesn't specifically state that there won't be a hard pull.
Well you're the second person I'm aware of that has had that issue, though my own data was somewhere between sniffed and sneered at by others.
I have a 30 day late on Transunion only from 10/15; I took an inquiry across all three bureaus for a mortgage refinance, and my Transunion likewise tumbled whereas none of my FICO's moved by much, and even my EQ and EX VS 3.0 likewise moved a few points. Only TU VS 3.0 was substantially affected.
Under FICO inquiries seem to be counted seperately from payment history; on Vantage that doesn't seem to be the case and it's conflated together somehow as you suggest. In my case presumbly it was credit seeking along with the recent (it was 7ish months old at the time) 30 day late combined to whack me. Incidently my TU VS score has completely recovered recently up over 100 points back to 785 with the late aging over a year, so my own guess (and it's just this, not enough data to suggest more) is that the inquiry + late within the last year combined to a non-pretty score.
To my knowlege the VS 3.0 inquiry window is for deduplication purposesly only. For data purposes, may I ask what else is in your file depressing your score?
