Credit Cards Center Credit cards from our partners
Reply
Moderator
Posts: 16,300
Registered: ‎12-30-2011

Re: Fico 8 score vs Vantagescore 3.0


taxi818 wrote:

EW800 wrote:

As a side note to this topic, I sure hope at some point in the not too distant future we might have a way to obtain our FICO 9 scores.  I have been quite curious about what my FICO 9 scores are, given that my Vantage 3.0 scores are roughly 75 points higher than my FICO 8 scores.  I am curious as to which model my FICO 9 scores are closest to.  

 

 


Well EW. this has been discussed many times in the past. of course it is basically the same as Fico 8   one noticible change only. or 2 depending how you look at it.

It has 1 . medical collections will not be counted in your score.

Any paid collections will also no longer be considered negative. this will encourage people to pay those old collections as in current system is better to not pay it. as you score will suffer the same. fico 9 realized. people make mistakes and over look things some times. which should not be reflected asap in the credit scoring system. so if you pay a bill like a collection. however late. the fact you paid it. will allow your score to recover. that is the only difference. Too bad. just like vantage. not many lenders have adopoted it. just like fico 8. only in the last 18 months have lenders truly adopted it. but as it implies it came out in 2008. So it may be many years before lenders start to adopt fico 9. im thinking of my credit union. which is stil using. Equifax beacon 5.0. i hate that score. Smiley Frustrated


That's just the announced changes; even if you look at FICO 04 to FICO 8 there's things which they do handle differently (like installment tradeline utilization apparently) so there may be additional changes under the hood.

 

That said, at least for collections that's a huge difference from the prior algorithms.  Penalizing someone for welshing on a debt, sure, but penalizing again for getting righteous?  That's just dumb and while there were other ways they could've addressed that, it's fixed neatly with FICO 9.

Starting Score: EQ 5 561, TU 98 567, EX 2 599 (12/30/11)
Current Score: EQ 5 693, EX 2 719, EQ 8 732, TU 8 732, EX 8 728 (2/01/17)
Goal Score:    EQ 5 750, EX 2 750, EQ 8 800, TU 8 Blah, EX 8 800 (01/01/18)


Take the myFICO Fitness Challenge
Valued Contributor
Posts: 2,253
Registered: ‎10-31-2011

Re: Fico 8 score vs Vantagescore 3.0

[ Edited ]

My Fico scores are all mid-700's and my Credit Karma scores are all around 100 points less (other than a current temp hiccup - see my recent post on this subject). I have cards from all major lenders and more than a few $10k+ credit limits, close to $200k in over all credit limits, oldest account 1978 and no baddies, there is no way I rate a "628 poor" score using Vantage Score 3.0. You can say what you want about VS 3.0 but it's a joke IMO at least as reported by CK. 

Super Contributor
Posts: 7,773
Registered: ‎07-04-2014
0

Re: Fico 8 score vs Vantagescore 3.0

@pipeguy +1

Super Contributor
Posts: 7,773
Registered: ‎07-04-2014
0

Re: Fico 8 score vs Vantagescore 3.0


Revelate wrote:

taxi818 wrote:

EW800 wrote:

As a side note to this topic, I sure hope at some point in the not too distant future we might have a way to obtain our FICO 9 scores.  I have been quite curious about what my FICO 9 scores are, given that my Vantage 3.0 scores are roughly 75 points higher than my FICO 8 scores.  I am curious as to which model my FICO 9 scores are closest to.  

 

 


Well EW. this has been discussed many times in the past. of course it is basically the same as Fico 8   one noticible change only. or 2 depending how you look at it.

It has 1 . medical collections will not be counted in your score.

Any paid collections will also no longer be considered negative. this will encourage people to pay those old collections as in current system is better to not pay it. as you score will suffer the same. fico 9 realized. people make mistakes and over look things some times. which should not be reflected asap in the credit scoring system. so if you pay a bill like a collection. however late. the fact you paid it. will allow your score to recover. that is the only difference. Too bad. just like vantage. not many lenders have adopoted it. just like fico 8. only in the last 18 months have lenders truly adopted it. but as it implies it came out in 2008. So it may be many years before lenders start to adopt fico 9. im thinking of my credit union. which is stil using. Equifax beacon 5.0. i hate that score. Smiley Frustrated


That's just the announced changes; even if you look at FICO 04 to FICO 8 there's things which they do handle differently (like installment tradeline utilization apparently) so there may be additional changes under the hood.

 

That said, at least for collections that's a huge difference from the prior algorithms.  Penalizing someone for welshing on a debt, sure, but penalizing again for getting righteous?  That's just dumb and while there were other ways they could've addressed that, it's fixed neatly with FICO 9.


So true.  Still not convinced how installment utilization works. Or affects overall score. 


Moderator
Posts: 16,300
Registered: ‎12-30-2011
0

Re: Fico 8 score vs Vantagescore 3.0


taxi818 wrote:

Revelate wrote:

taxi818 wrote:

EW800 wrote:

As a side note to this topic, I sure hope at some point in the not too distant future we might have a way to obtain our FICO 9 scores.  I have been quite curious about what my FICO 9 scores are, given that my Vantage 3.0 scores are roughly 75 points higher than my FICO 8 scores.  I am curious as to which model my FICO 9 scores are closest to.  

 

 


Well EW. this has been discussed many times in the past. of course it is basically the same as Fico 8   one noticible change only. or 2 depending how you look at it.

It has 1 . medical collections will not be counted in your score.

Any paid collections will also no longer be considered negative. this will encourage people to pay those old collections as in current system is better to not pay it. as you score will suffer the same. fico 9 realized. people make mistakes and over look things some times. which should not be reflected asap in the credit scoring system. so if you pay a bill like a collection. however late. the fact you paid it. will allow your score to recover. that is the only difference. Too bad. just like vantage. not many lenders have adopoted it. just like fico 8. only in the last 18 months have lenders truly adopted it. but as it implies it came out in 2008. So it may be many years before lenders start to adopt fico 9. im thinking of my credit union. which is stil using. Equifax beacon 5.0. i hate that score. Smiley Frustrated


That's just the announced changes; even if you look at FICO 04 to FICO 8 there's things which they do handle differently (like installment tradeline utilization apparently) so there may be additional changes under the hood.

 

That said, at least for collections that's a huge difference from the prior algorithms.  Penalizing someone for welshing on a debt, sure, but penalizing again for getting righteous?  That's just dumb and while there were other ways they could've addressed that, it's fixed neatly with FICO 9.


So true.  Still not convinced how installment utilization works. Or affects overall score. 


Well it was really only recently on this forum that we even suggested it was a thing.  FICO 8 data wasn't making sense to me and then got as clean a datapoint as possible with the way the algorithm works and it sure looks like it matters and is pretty simple to calculate.

 

Which means if true it'll be fairly simple to manipulate too for us FICO strategists but meh.  If my mortgage isn't counted against my installment utilization (and that's a big if) I'm going to try some moderately dumb things to figure that out.

Starting Score: EQ 5 561, TU 98 567, EX 2 599 (12/30/11)
Current Score: EQ 5 693, EX 2 719, EQ 8 732, TU 8 732, EX 8 728 (2/01/17)
Goal Score:    EQ 5 750, EX 2 750, EQ 8 800, TU 8 Blah, EX 8 800 (01/01/18)


Take the myFICO Fitness Challenge
Member
Posts: 5
Registered: ‎05-25-2013
0

Re: Fico 8 score vs Vantagescore 3.0

[ Edited ]

I realize that this is an old thread.

To give perspective, I had several recent inquiries on each of my credit bureau accounts, no late payments, collections or bankruptcies.  Naturally this dragged down my scores to about 600 for the Vantage 3.0 and 645 for the Fico-8. 

10 days ago, after about 2 months without an inquiry, I applied for two alltgedly pre-approved offers.  I knew from the wording of the applications that there would be hard pulls for both.  Before I applied, my Vantage 3.0 scores were in the 630 range for each, and my Fico-8 was around 680.   My utilization had fallen from 31% to 22%, but nothing else had changed much.  One did two hard pulls and the third did one hard pull.  Each bureau got exactly one hard pull.   Because of one hard pull, combined (I assume) with the many other recent inquiries, my FICO-8 dropped 1-3 points, to around 677.  My Vantage 3.0 scores plummeted over 65 points on each, to around 567.
  
So apparently the way they date recent inquiries has a major effect on Vantage 3.0, not as much on Fico-8.

I understand that the Vantage 3.0 inquire window is 14 days, so it may change again in a few days.  In the meantime, it will be at least a year before I apply for anything that doesn't specifically state that there won't be a hard pull.

Senior Contributor
Posts: 12,825
Registered: ‎01-04-2014
0

Re: Fico 8 score vs Vantagescore 3.0

[ Edited ]

This thread although somewhat dated as you mentioned, is in my opinion still relevant.

 

I will have to turn over explaination to the guru's here who can better point out things simply because they sweat all the details and are really good at it.

 

However I wanted to post to share my utter contempt of the Vantage Score since CK took it on themselves to free market it along with the credit reports.

 

Thank Goodness they are only FAKE scores because while my scores have consistently been for the most part stable, ever since they tanked my FAKO scores due to (whatever), I suspect the (2) new accounts which started reporting after being hidden tradelines w/balances on both but below 19%.

 

The FAKO tumbled 100 points and they have only inched up ever so slightly for me ever since. As the Borg would say, they are IRRELEVANT.

 

My genuine FICO 8 scores, modest that they currently are, constantly far surpass the Vantage Scores offered for entertainment purposes.

 

I've since given up expecting those to change in the near affirmative. A far cry from the scoreboard FAKO's they used to use before that were pretty close +/- 10 points or so from the authentic FICO's that 90%+ lenders use to determine credit.

 

 

 

Last App-Jan 26* It's All In The Magic Of Your Own Destiny * FICO TU 769 EQ 723 EX 768
Moderator
Posts: 16,300
Registered: ‎12-30-2011
0

Re: Fico 8 score vs Vantagescore 3.0

[ Edited ]

TomBarrister wrote:

I realize that this is an old thread.

To give perspective, I had several recent inquiries on each of my credit bureau accounts, no late payments, collections or bankruptcies.  Naturally this dragged down my scores to about 600 for the Vantage 3.0 and 645 for the Fico-8. 

10 days ago, after about 2 months without an inquiry, I applied for two alltgedly pre-approved offers.  I knew from the wording of the applications that there would be hard pulls for both.  Before I applied, my Vantage 3.0 scores were in the 630 range for each, and my Fico-8 was around 680.   My utilization had fallen from 31% to 22%, but nothing else had changed much.  One did two hard pulls and the third did one hard pull.  Each bureau got exactly one hard pull.   Because of one hard pull, combined (I assume) with the many other recent inquiries, my FICO-8 dropped 1-3 points, to around 677.  My Vantage 3.0 scores plummeted over 65 points on each, to around 567.
  
So apparently the way they date recent inquiries has a major effect on Vantage 3.0, not as much on Fico-8.

I understand that the Vantage 3.0 inquire window is 14 days, so it may change again in a few days.  In the meantime, it will be at least a year before I apply for anything that doesn't specifically state that there won't be a hard pull.


Well you're the second person I'm aware of that has had that issue, though my own data was somewhere between sniffed and sneered at by others.

 

I have a 30 day late on Transunion only from 10/15; I took an inquiry across all three bureaus for a mortgage refinance, and my Transunion likewise tumbled whereas none of my FICO's moved by much, and even my EQ and EX VS 3.0 likewise moved a few points.  Only TU VS 3.0 was substantially affected.

 

 

Under FICO inquiries seem to be counted seperately from payment history; on Vantage that doesn't seem to be the case and it's conflated together somehow as you suggest.  In my case presumbly it was credit seeking along with the recent (it was 7ish months old at the time) 30 day late combined to whack me.  Incidently my TU VS score has completely recovered recently up over 100 points back to 785 with the late aging over a year, so my own guess (and it's just this, not enough data to suggest more) is that the inquiry + late within the last year combined to a non-pretty score.

 

To my knowlege the VS 3.0 inquiry window is for deduplication purposesly only.  For data purposes, may I ask what else is in your file depressing your score?

 

Starting Score: EQ 5 561, TU 98 567, EX 2 599 (12/30/11)
Current Score: EQ 5 693, EX 2 719, EQ 8 732, TU 8 732, EX 8 728 (2/01/17)
Goal Score:    EQ 5 750, EX 2 750, EQ 8 800, TU 8 Blah, EX 8 800 (01/01/18)


Take the myFICO Fitness Challenge
Member
Posts: 5
Registered: ‎05-25-2013
0

Re: Fico 8 score vs Vantagescore 3.0

Just the many inquiries and many new accounts opened, but they were already on the record for at least a month.  The only thing that changed was the one recent inquiry on each bureau.

I saw this happen before on CK.  My accounts dropped from 600 to 550 in one swoop.  A month late, they went back up to 606.  I don't even know what I did to cause that one.

Valued Contributor
Posts: 3,779
Registered: ‎04-11-2016
0

Re: Fico 8 score vs Vantagescore 3.0

I've taken multiple inquiries at once from a mini "spree" and within 3 months my scores under both FICO 08 and VS 3.0 were back to where they were pre-spree and within 4 months they were higher than pre-spree.

Forums posts are not provided or commissioned by FICO. Forums posts have not been reviewed, approved or otherwise endorsed by FICO. It is not FICO's responsibility to ensure all posts and/or questions are answered.

Advertiser Disclosure: The listings that appear on myFICO are from companies from which myFICO receives compensation, which may impact how and where products appear on myFICO (including, for example, the order in which they appear). myFICO does not review or include all companies or all available products.
† Credit cards for FICO Score ranges: The score ranges are guidelines based on internal myFICO analysis of actual applicant approvals, and having a FICO Score in a particular range does not guarantee you will be approved for credit cards recommended in that range. These ranges were not provided by any card issuer.

* For complete information, see the terms and conditions on the credit card issuer’s website. Once you click apply for this card, you will be directed to the issuer’s website where you may review the terms and conditions of the card before applying. While myFICO always strives to present the most accurate information, we show a summary to help you choose a product, not the full legal terms - and before applying you should understand the full terms of products as stated by the issuer itself.

Copyright ©2001-2015 Fair Isaac Corporation. All rights reserved.   | Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Sitemap

IMPORTANT INFORMATION: All FICO® Score products made available on myFICO.com include a FICO® Score 8, along with additional FICO® Score versions. Your lender or insurer may use a different FICO® Score than the versions you receive from myFICO, or another type of credit score altogether. Learn more

FICO, myFICO, Score Watch, The score lenders use, and The Score That Matters are trademarks or registered trademarks of Fair Isaac Corporation. Equifax Credit Report is a trademark of Equifax, Inc. and its affiliated companies. Many factors affect your FICO Score and the interest rates you may receive. Fair Isaac is not a credit repair organization as defined under federal or state law, including the Credit Repair Organizations Act. Fair Isaac does not provide "credit repair" services or advice or assistance regarding "rebuilding" or "improving" your credit record, credit history or credit rating. FTC's website on credit.