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Fico 8 score vs Vantagescore 3.0

Moderator

Re: Fico 8 score vs Vantagescore 3.0


taxi818 wrote:

EW800 wrote:

As a side note to this topic, I sure hope at some point in the not too distant future we might have a way to obtain our FICO 9 scores.  I have been quite curious about what my FICO 9 scores are, given that my Vantage 3.0 scores are roughly 75 points higher than my FICO 8 scores.  I am curious as to which model my FICO 9 scores are closest to.  

 

 


Well EW. this has been discussed many times in the past. of course it is basically the same as Fico 8   one noticible change only. or 2 depending how you look at it.

It has 1 . medical collections will not be counted in your score.

Any paid collections will also no longer be considered negative. this will encourage people to pay those old collections as in current system is better to not pay it. as you score will suffer the same. fico 9 realized. people make mistakes and over look things some times. which should not be reflected asap in the credit scoring system. so if you pay a bill like a collection. however late. the fact you paid it. will allow your score to recover. that is the only difference. Too bad. just like vantage. not many lenders have adopoted it. just like fico 8. only in the last 18 months have lenders truly adopted it. but as it implies it came out in 2008. So it may be many years before lenders start to adopt fico 9. im thinking of my credit union. which is stil using. Equifax beacon 5.0. i hate that score. Smiley Frustrated


That's just the announced changes; even if you look at FICO 04 to FICO 8 there's things which they do handle differently (like installment tradeline utilization apparently) so there may be additional changes under the hood.

 

That said, at least for collections that's a huge difference from the prior algorithms.  Penalizing someone for welshing on a debt, sure, but penalizing again for getting righteous?  That's just dumb and while there were other ways they could've addressed that, it's fixed neatly with FICO 9.

Starting Score: EQ 5 561, TU 98 567, EX 2 599 (12/30/11)
Current Score: EQ 5 771, TU 4 758, EX 2 758, EQ 8 795, TU 8 762, EX 8 786 (7/28/17)
Goal Score:    EQ 5 750, TU 4 750, EX 2 750, EQ 8 800, TU 8 Blah, EX 8 800 (01/01/18)


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Message 11 of 30
Valued Contributor

Re: Fico 8 score vs Vantagescore 3.0

My Fico scores are all mid-700's and my Credit Karma scores are all around 100 points less (other than a current temp hiccup - see my recent post on this subject). I have cards from all major lenders and more than a few $10k+ credit limits, close to $200k in over all credit limits, oldest account 1978 and no baddies, there is no way I rate a "628 poor" score using Vantage Score 3.0. You can say what you want about VS 3.0 but it's a joke IMO at least as reported by CK. 

Message 12 of 30
Super Contributor

Re: Fico 8 score vs Vantagescore 3.0

@pipeguy +1

Message 13 of 30
Super Contributor

Re: Fico 8 score vs Vantagescore 3.0


Revelate wrote:

taxi818 wrote:

EW800 wrote:

As a side note to this topic, I sure hope at some point in the not too distant future we might have a way to obtain our FICO 9 scores.  I have been quite curious about what my FICO 9 scores are, given that my Vantage 3.0 scores are roughly 75 points higher than my FICO 8 scores.  I am curious as to which model my FICO 9 scores are closest to.  

 

 


Well EW. this has been discussed many times in the past. of course it is basically the same as Fico 8   one noticible change only. or 2 depending how you look at it.

It has 1 . medical collections will not be counted in your score.

Any paid collections will also no longer be considered negative. this will encourage people to pay those old collections as in current system is better to not pay it. as you score will suffer the same. fico 9 realized. people make mistakes and over look things some times. which should not be reflected asap in the credit scoring system. so if you pay a bill like a collection. however late. the fact you paid it. will allow your score to recover. that is the only difference. Too bad. just like vantage. not many lenders have adopoted it. just like fico 8. only in the last 18 months have lenders truly adopted it. but as it implies it came out in 2008. So it may be many years before lenders start to adopt fico 9. im thinking of my credit union. which is stil using. Equifax beacon 5.0. i hate that score. Smiley Frustrated


That's just the announced changes; even if you look at FICO 04 to FICO 8 there's things which they do handle differently (like installment tradeline utilization apparently) so there may be additional changes under the hood.

 

That said, at least for collections that's a huge difference from the prior algorithms.  Penalizing someone for welshing on a debt, sure, but penalizing again for getting righteous?  That's just dumb and while there were other ways they could've addressed that, it's fixed neatly with FICO 9.


So true.  Still not convinced how installment utilization works. Or affects overall score. 


Message 14 of 30
Moderator

Re: Fico 8 score vs Vantagescore 3.0


taxi818 wrote:

Revelate wrote:

taxi818 wrote:

EW800 wrote:

As a side note to this topic, I sure hope at some point in the not too distant future we might have a way to obtain our FICO 9 scores.  I have been quite curious about what my FICO 9 scores are, given that my Vantage 3.0 scores are roughly 75 points higher than my FICO 8 scores.  I am curious as to which model my FICO 9 scores are closest to.  

 

 


Well EW. this has been discussed many times in the past. of course it is basically the same as Fico 8   one noticible change only. or 2 depending how you look at it.

It has 1 . medical collections will not be counted in your score.

Any paid collections will also no longer be considered negative. this will encourage people to pay those old collections as in current system is better to not pay it. as you score will suffer the same. fico 9 realized. people make mistakes and over look things some times. which should not be reflected asap in the credit scoring system. so if you pay a bill like a collection. however late. the fact you paid it. will allow your score to recover. that is the only difference. Too bad. just like vantage. not many lenders have adopoted it. just like fico 8. only in the last 18 months have lenders truly adopted it. but as it implies it came out in 2008. So it may be many years before lenders start to adopt fico 9. im thinking of my credit union. which is stil using. Equifax beacon 5.0. i hate that score. Smiley Frustrated


That's just the announced changes; even if you look at FICO 04 to FICO 8 there's things which they do handle differently (like installment tradeline utilization apparently) so there may be additional changes under the hood.

 

That said, at least for collections that's a huge difference from the prior algorithms.  Penalizing someone for welshing on a debt, sure, but penalizing again for getting righteous?  That's just dumb and while there were other ways they could've addressed that, it's fixed neatly with FICO 9.


So true.  Still not convinced how installment utilization works. Or affects overall score. 


Well it was really only recently on this forum that we even suggested it was a thing.  FICO 8 data wasn't making sense to me and then got as clean a datapoint as possible with the way the algorithm works and it sure looks like it matters and is pretty simple to calculate.

 

Which means if true it'll be fairly simple to manipulate too for us FICO strategists but meh.  If my mortgage isn't counted against my installment utilization (and that's a big if) I'm going to try some moderately dumb things to figure that out.

Starting Score: EQ 5 561, TU 98 567, EX 2 599 (12/30/11)
Current Score: EQ 5 771, TU 4 758, EX 2 758, EQ 8 795, TU 8 762, EX 8 786 (7/28/17)
Goal Score:    EQ 5 750, TU 4 750, EX 2 750, EQ 8 800, TU 8 Blah, EX 8 800 (01/01/18)


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Message 15 of 30

Re: Fico 8 score vs Vantagescore 3.0

I realize that this is an old thread.

To give perspective, I had several recent inquiries on each of my credit bureau accounts, no late payments, collections or bankruptcies.  Naturally this dragged down my scores to about 600 for the Vantage 3.0 and 645 for the Fico-8. 

10 days ago, after about 2 months without an inquiry, I applied for two alltgedly pre-approved offers.  I knew from the wording of the applications that there would be hard pulls for both.  Before I applied, my Vantage 3.0 scores were in the 630 range for each, and my Fico-8 was around 680.   My utilization had fallen from 31% to 22%, but nothing else had changed much.  One did two hard pulls and the third did one hard pull.  Each bureau got exactly one hard pull.   Because of one hard pull, combined (I assume) with the many other recent inquiries, my FICO-8 dropped 1-3 points, to around 677.  My Vantage 3.0 scores plummeted over 65 points on each, to around 567.
  
So apparently the way they date recent inquiries has a major effect on Vantage 3.0, not as much on Fico-8.

I understand that the Vantage 3.0 inquire window is 14 days, so it may change again in a few days.  In the meantime, it will be at least a year before I apply for anything that doesn't specifically state that there won't be a hard pull.

Message 16 of 30
Super Contributor

Re: Fico 8 score vs Vantagescore 3.0

This thread although somewhat dated as you mentioned, is in my opinion still relevant.

 

I will have to turn over explaination to the guru's here who can better point out things simply because they sweat all the details and are really good at it.

 

However I wanted to post to share my utter contempt of the Vantage Score since CK took it on themselves to free market it along with the credit reports.

 

Thank Goodness they are only FAKE scores because while my scores have consistently been for the most part stable, ever since they tanked my FAKO scores due to (whatever), I suspect the (2) new accounts which started reporting after being hidden tradelines w/balances on both but below 19%.

 

The FAKO tumbled 100 points and they have only inched up ever so slightly for me ever since. As the Borg would say, they are IRRELEVANT.

 

My genuine FICO 8 scores, modest that they currently are, constantly far surpass the Vantage Scores offered for entertainment purposes.

 

I've since given up expecting those to change in the near affirmative. A far cry from the scoreboard FAKO's they used to use before that were pretty close +/- 10 points or so from the authentic FICO's that 90%+ lenders use to determine credit.

 

 

 

Message 17 of 30
Moderator

Re: Fico 8 score vs Vantagescore 3.0


TomBarrister wrote:

I realize that this is an old thread.

To give perspective, I had several recent inquiries on each of my credit bureau accounts, no late payments, collections or bankruptcies.  Naturally this dragged down my scores to about 600 for the Vantage 3.0 and 645 for the Fico-8. 

10 days ago, after about 2 months without an inquiry, I applied for two alltgedly pre-approved offers.  I knew from the wording of the applications that there would be hard pulls for both.  Before I applied, my Vantage 3.0 scores were in the 630 range for each, and my Fico-8 was around 680.   My utilization had fallen from 31% to 22%, but nothing else had changed much.  One did two hard pulls and the third did one hard pull.  Each bureau got exactly one hard pull.   Because of one hard pull, combined (I assume) with the many other recent inquiries, my FICO-8 dropped 1-3 points, to around 677.  My Vantage 3.0 scores plummeted over 65 points on each, to around 567.
  
So apparently the way they date recent inquiries has a major effect on Vantage 3.0, not as much on Fico-8.

I understand that the Vantage 3.0 inquire window is 14 days, so it may change again in a few days.  In the meantime, it will be at least a year before I apply for anything that doesn't specifically state that there won't be a hard pull.


Well you're the second person I'm aware of that has had that issue, though my own data was somewhere between sniffed and sneered at by others.

 

I have a 30 day late on Transunion only from 10/15; I took an inquiry across all three bureaus for a mortgage refinance, and my Transunion likewise tumbled whereas none of my FICO's moved by much, and even my EQ and EX VS 3.0 likewise moved a few points.  Only TU VS 3.0 was substantially affected.

 

 

Under FICO inquiries seem to be counted seperately from payment history; on Vantage that doesn't seem to be the case and it's conflated together somehow as you suggest.  In my case presumbly it was credit seeking along with the recent (it was 7ish months old at the time) 30 day late combined to whack me.  Incidently my TU VS score has completely recovered recently up over 100 points back to 785 with the late aging over a year, so my own guess (and it's just this, not enough data to suggest more) is that the inquiry + late within the last year combined to a non-pretty score.

 

To my knowlege the VS 3.0 inquiry window is for deduplication purposesly only.  For data purposes, may I ask what else is in your file depressing your score?

 

Starting Score: EQ 5 561, TU 98 567, EX 2 599 (12/30/11)
Current Score: EQ 5 771, TU 4 758, EX 2 758, EQ 8 795, TU 8 762, EX 8 786 (7/28/17)
Goal Score:    EQ 5 750, TU 4 750, EX 2 750, EQ 8 800, TU 8 Blah, EX 8 800 (01/01/18)


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Message 18 of 30

Re: Fico 8 score vs Vantagescore 3.0

Just the many inquiries and many new accounts opened, but they were already on the record for at least a month.  The only thing that changed was the one recent inquiry on each bureau.

I saw this happen before on CK.  My accounts dropped from 600 to 550 in one swoop.  A month late, they went back up to 606.  I don't even know what I did to cause that one.

Message 19 of 30
Senior Contributor

Re: Fico 8 score vs Vantagescore 3.0

I've taken multiple inquiries at once from a mini "spree" and within 3 months my scores under both FICO 08 and VS 3.0 were back to where they were pre-spree and within 4 months they were higher than pre-spree.

Message 20 of 30