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Re: Fico 8 score vs Vantagescore 3.0

[ Edited ]

BrutalBodyShots wrote:

I've taken multiple inquiries at once from a mini "spree" and within 3 months my scores under both FICO 08 and VS 3.0 were back to where they were pre-spree and within 4 months they were higher than pre-spree.


Yeah this is something else.

 

I'm pretty certain with FICO inquiries don't move you between dirty scorecards certainly and I'm a bit doubtful they factor into clean scorecard segmentation either though TT likely has thought about that more than I have and would have a better opinion on it.  To be clear, it doesn't appear to be much difference in terms of inquiry penalty whether you're a dirty or clean file on FICO, couple of points, ain't no big thing.

 

Vantage, either inquiries affect the bucket, or in certain scorecards there is a difference in calculation for how the inquiries are handled (I'm seriously skeptical of this second part) but it's not very clear at a glance.  As mentioned to my knowledge only a few posts have mentioned anything of this sort, and that's not a lot of data to go on.  Few people are even interested enough in FICO to really test it, fewer than that are interested in Vantage for obvious reasons, so it's probably never going to be very clear.

 

TBH I worried about my TU VS 3.0 being 680ish even less than I worried about a 30 day late on TU at all... which is to say near zero anyway.  Back to 785 on TU VS 3.0 is likewise kinda yawn-inducing.

Starting Score: EQ 5 561, TU 98 567, EX 2 599 (12/30/11)
Current Score: EQ 5 693, EX 2 719, EQ 8 732, TU 8 732, EX 8 728 (2/01/17)
Goal Score:    EQ 5 750, EX 2 750, EQ 8 800, TU 8 Blah, EX 8 800 (01/01/18)


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Re: Fico 8 score vs Vantagescore 3.0

[ Edited ]

Revelate wrote:

BrutalBodyShots wrote:

I've taken multiple inquiries at once from a mini "spree" and within 3 months my scores under both FICO 08 and VS 3.0 were back to where they were pre-spree and within 4 months they were higher than pre-spree.


Yeah this is something else.

 

I'm pretty certain with FICO inquiries don't move you between dirty scorecards certainly and I'm a bit doubtful they factor into clean scorecard segmentation either though TT likely has thought about that more than I have and would have a better opinion on it.  To be clear, it doesn't appear to be much difference in terms of inquiry penalty whether you're a dirty or clean file on FICO, couple of points, ain't no big thing.

 

Vantage, either inquiries affect the bucket, or in certain scorecards there is a difference in calculation for how the inquiries are handled (I'm seriously skeptical of this second part) but it's not very clear at a glance.  As mentioned to my knowledge only a few posts have mentioned anything of this sort, and that's not a lot of data to go on.  Few people are even interested enough in FICO to really test it, fewer than that are interested in Vantage for obvious reasons, so it's probably never going to be very clear.

 

TBH I worried about my TU VS 3.0 being 680ish even less than I worried about a 30 day late on TU at all... which is to say near zero anyway.  Back to 785 on TU VS 3.0 is likewise kinda yawn-inducing.


Edit:

Inquiries are "scoring factors" for both Fico and Vantagescore models. However, inquiries are NOT "scorecard assignment factors" for Fico but may serve a dual purpose with VantageScore

[Add: see below posts for additional information regarding VS scorecards and inquiries].

Fico 8: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850 (3/2017)
Fico 9: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850 (3/2017)
Fico 4 .....:. EQ 804 TU 823 EX 830 (3/2017)
VS 3.0:...... EQ 832 TU 832 EX 832 (3/2017)
Fico 8 BC:. EQ 887 TU 899 EX 900 (3/2017)
CBIS: ........LN Auto 940 LN Home 870 TU Auto 902 TU Home 950 (4/2017)
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Posts: 16,577
Registered: ‎12-30-2011
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Re: Fico 8 score vs Vantagescore 3.0

[ Edited ]

Thomas_Thumb wrote:

Revelate wrote:

BrutalBodyShots wrote:

I've taken multiple inquiries at once from a mini "spree" and within 3 months my scores under both FICO 08 and VS 3.0 were back to where they were pre-spree and within 4 months they were higher than pre-spree.


Yeah this is something else.

 

I'm pretty certain with FICO inquiries don't move you between dirty scorecards certainly and I'm a bit doubtful they factor into clean scorecard segmentation either though TT likely has thought about that more than I have and would have a better opinion on it.  To be clear, it doesn't appear to be much difference in terms of inquiry penalty whether you're a dirty or clean file on FICO, couple of points, ain't no big thing.

 

Vantage, either inquiries affect the bucket, or in certain scorecards there is a difference in calculation for how the inquiries are handled (I'm seriously skeptical of this second part) but it's not very clear at a glance.  As mentioned to my knowledge only a few posts have mentioned anything of this sort, and that's not a lot of data to go on.  Few people are even interested enough in FICO to really test it, fewer than that are interested in Vantage for obvious reasons, so it's probably never going to be very clear.

 

TBH I worried about my TU VS 3.0 being 680ish even less than I worried about a 30 day late on TU at all... which is to say near zero anyway.  Back to 785 on TU VS 3.0 is likewise kinda yawn-inducing.


Inquiries are "scoring factors" for both Fico and Vantagescore models. However, inquiries are NOT "scorecard assignment factors" for Fico or VantageScore.


Then do you suggest that the calculation inside a scorecard is different depending on the specific scorecard as far as inquiries go?

 

There's only two options that I see for explaining the datapoints unless you suggest they're both unclean / noise.  Is possible I guess, I know mine wasn't rigorously tested and was more of a "WTH" finding.

Starting Score: EQ 5 561, TU 98 567, EX 2 599 (12/30/11)
Current Score: EQ 5 693, EX 2 719, EQ 8 732, TU 8 732, EX 8 728 (2/01/17)
Goal Score:    EQ 5 750, EX 2 750, EQ 8 800, TU 8 Blah, EX 8 800 (01/01/18)


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Re: Fico 8 score vs Vantagescore 3.0

[ Edited ]

I do believe inquiries are binned and thus an incremental change may count differently depending on ones profile within a scorecard. They may also count differently depending on scorecard - but, in general, inquiries have a relatively minor impact.

 

Figure 2 is for VS 2.0 and VS 3.0 added a 13 scorecard for no recent activity. Unfortunately, these segmentations provide no insight into how factors are weighed differently. Even so, VS has stated that the way factors are scored is impacted by scorecard.

 

Side note: The traditional segmentation shows a segmentation at 3 accounts or less (thin file differentiation). I think that may have increased to 5 accounts or less with more recent VS2 and VS3 models but, Fico still uses 3 or less for thin file designation.

 

Fico Thin Files.gif

 

segmentation scheme.gif

 

Segmentation VS.gif

 

VS3 scorecards.jpg

Fico 8: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850 (3/2017)
Fico 9: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850 (3/2017)
Fico 4 .....:. EQ 804 TU 823 EX 830 (3/2017)
VS 3.0:...... EQ 832 TU 832 EX 832 (3/2017)
Fico 8 BC:. EQ 887 TU 899 EX 900 (3/2017)
CBIS: ........LN Auto 940 LN Home 870 TU Auto 902 TU Home 950 (4/2017)
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Posts: 16,577
Registered: ‎12-30-2011

Re: Fico 8 score vs Vantagescore 3.0

[ Edited ]

Hrm.  Based on those are we absolutely certain inquiries aren't factored into scorecard assignment?

 

Swapping between an expected BK and normal profile for a late + inquiries is certainly plausible even from my primarily consumer vantage point... credit issues, however we define it, and seeking new credit?  Bad mojo.

 

Also there's really no way to ascertain what translates between the 4 different risk profiles on the no BK / full file side unless that's in a different document (mea culpa frankly abusing your knowledge on VS).  I would certainly assume tax liens / collections factored into that, but deliquencies might perhaps on VS whereas they don't appear to in FICO.

 

I do think VS is a more complex animal than FICO 8 and earlier FWIW but that could simply be the fact we don't really have much data on it compared to the FICO algorithms.

 

 

Starting Score: EQ 5 561, TU 98 567, EX 2 599 (12/30/11)
Current Score: EQ 5 693, EX 2 719, EQ 8 732, TU 8 732, EX 8 728 (2/01/17)
Goal Score:    EQ 5 750, EX 2 750, EQ 8 800, TU 8 Blah, EX 8 800 (01/01/18)


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Posts: 1,890
Registered: ‎04-01-2015

Re: Fico 8 score vs Vantagescore 3.0

[ Edited ]

Revelate wrote:

Hrm.  Based on those are we absolutely certain inquiries aren't factored into scorecard assignment?

 

Swapping between an expected BK and normal profile for a late + inquiries is certainly plausible even from my primarily consumer vantage point... credit issues, however we define it, and seeking new credit?  Bad mojo.

 

Also there's really no way to ascertain what translates between the 4 different risk profiles on the no BK / full file side unless that's in a different document (mea culpa frankly abusing your knowledge on VS).  I would certainly assume tax liens / collections factored into that, but deliquencies might perhaps on VS whereas they don't appear to in FICO.

 

I do think VS is a more complex animal than FICO 8 and earlier FWIW but that could simply be the fact we don't really have much data on it compared to the FICO algorithms.

 

 


Speaking of tax liens and collections - here is something interesting.

 

https://www.vantagescore.com/images/resources/VantageScore_PublicRecordReporting_June2016.pdf

 

 

VS3 after tax lien & judgement removal.jpg

 

Now speaking of inquiries relating to VS

https://thescore.vantagescore.com/article/150/did-you-know-truth-about-credit-inquiries

 

VS inquiries.jpg

 

Fico 8: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850 (3/2017)
Fico 9: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850 (3/2017)
Fico 4 .....:. EQ 804 TU 823 EX 830 (3/2017)
VS 3.0:...... EQ 832 TU 832 EX 832 (3/2017)
Fico 8 BC:. EQ 887 TU 899 EX 900 (3/2017)
CBIS: ........LN Auto 940 LN Home 870 TU Auto 902 TU Home 950 (4/2017)
Valued Contributor
Posts: 1,890
Registered: ‎04-01-2015
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Re: Fico 8 score vs Vantagescore 3.0

[ Edited ]

More food for thought on VantageScore

 

VS actions and impact.jpg

 

 

Fico 8: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850 (3/2017)
Fico 9: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850 (3/2017)
Fico 4 .....:. EQ 804 TU 823 EX 830 (3/2017)
VS 3.0:...... EQ 832 TU 832 EX 832 (3/2017)
Fico 8 BC:. EQ 887 TU 899 EX 900 (3/2017)
CBIS: ........LN Auto 940 LN Home 870 TU Auto 902 TU Home 950 (4/2017)
Senior Contributor
Posts: 13,226
Registered: ‎01-04-2014
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Re: Fico 8 score vs Vantagescore 3.0

[ Edited ]

Never mind.

 

Will open a new topic to the concern. Sorry for the butt in.

 

Last App-Jan 26* It's All In The Magic Of Your Own Destiny * FICO TU 769 EQ 723 EX 777
Valued Contributor
Posts: 1,890
Registered: ‎04-01-2015
0

Re: Fico 8 score vs Vantagescore 3.0

[ Edited ]

Revelate wrote:

Hrm.  Based on those are we absolutely certain inquiries aren't factored into scorecard assignment?

 

Swapping between an expected BK and normal profile for a late + inquiries is certainly plausible even from my primarily consumer vantage point... credit issues, however we define it, and seeking new credit?  Bad mojo.

 

Also there's really no way to ascertain what translates between the 4 different risk profiles on the no BK / full file side unless that's in a different document (mea culpa frankly abusing your knowledge on VS).  I would certainly assume tax liens / collections factored into that, but deliquencies might perhaps on VS whereas they don't appear to in FICO.

 

I do think VS is a more complex animal than FICO 8 and earlier FWIW but that could simply be the fact we don't really have much data on it compared to the FICO algorithms.

 

 


Revelate, you may have a point as VS3 factors may serve a dual purpose regarding scoring and scorecard assignment. See below which I pieced together from various articles. I added the side notes in the table to denote a possible risk category delineation.

 

VS3 scorecards.jpg

 

VS Risk category factors.jpg

 

It appears each of the four segmentations for scorecards relating to risk categories include derogatory factors for scoring.

 

VS3 predictive performance.jpg

 

Again, for ready reference here is what I found for Fico 08:

 

Fico 8 Scorecards.jpg

 

Fico 8 scorecards.jpg

 

Fico 8: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850 (3/2017)
Fico 9: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850 (3/2017)
Fico 4 .....:. EQ 804 TU 823 EX 830 (3/2017)
VS 3.0:...... EQ 832 TU 832 EX 832 (3/2017)
Fico 8 BC:. EQ 887 TU 899 EX 900 (3/2017)
CBIS: ........LN Auto 940 LN Home 870 TU Auto 902 TU Home 950 (4/2017)
New Contributor
Posts: 92
Registered: ‎10-29-2016
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Re: Fico 8 score vs Vantagescore 3.0

Vantage is a complete Joke! I had two hard inquiries and two new accounts and my Fico score dropped 20 points and within two-months, it was higher than when I started. my vantage score dropped 70 points and has only gone up a few points every month. Vantage is way too picky.

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