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[Final update 12/11] Car loan & installment loan thresholds

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SouthJamaica
Mega Contributor

Re: [Updated] My scores peaking, the calm before the storm

Here are results for my auto loan reporting, at 87.7% overall installment loan utilization.

 

FICO8 EQ 691 -30 TU 768 -41 EX 703 -20
FICO9 EQ 742 -49 TU 796 -33 EX 728 -47
FICO Auto 8 EQ 698 -19 TU 794 -30 EX 700 -16
FICO Bankcard 8 EQ 701 -20 TU 800 -40 EX 717 -25
Mortgage FICO5 EQ 697 +2 FICO4 TU 746 -2 FICO2 EX 690 -13


Total revolving limits 741200 (620700 reporting) FICO 8: EQ 701 TU 704 EX 685

Message 31 of 102
Thomas_Thumb
Senior Contributor

Re: [Updated] My scores peaking, the calm before the storm


@SouthJamaica wrote:

Here are results for my auto loan reporting, at 87.7% overall installment loan utilization.


(Notes. 1. TU score for FICO8 is from before I got my updated report. Other TU scores are from my updated report and are skewed, due to TU "inquiry glitch" -- all my recent inquiries being erased.
2. My TU scores are from a different scorecard than EQ and EX.)

 

FICO8 EQ 691 -30 TU 768 -41 EX 703 -20
FICO9 EQ 742 -49 TU 796 -33 EX 728 -47 Smiley Sad [are these before scores from the same point in time as the Fico 08 before scores?]
FICO Auto 8 EQ 698 -19 TU 794 -30 EX 700 -16
FICO Bankcard 8 EQ 701 -20 TU 800 -40 EX 717 -25
Mortgage [FICO5 = EQ Fico 04] 697 +2  [FICO4 = TU Fico 04] 746 -2  [FICO2 = EX Fico 98] 690 -13


So SJ, you pulled the 3B report early?

 

Looks like Fico 09 punishes quite heavily for high B/L ratio. Perhaps more than Fico 08 on your dirty scorecards and less than Fico 08 on your clean scorecard.

 

Data supports the prior findings that demonstrated Fico 04 does not consider B/L ratio in scoring as those differences are noise. How much did your EX FICO3 change?

 

As expected, Fico 98 model was influenced by the increase in B/L ratio but, only "mild impact".

Fico 9: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850
Fico 8: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850
Fico 4 .....:. EQ 809 TU 823 EX 830 EX Fico 98: 842
Fico 8 BC:. EQ 892 TU 900 EX 900
Fico 8 AU:. EQ 887 TU 897 EX 899
Fico 4 BC:. EQ 826 TU 858, EX Fico 98 BC: 870
Fico 4 AU:. EQ 831 TU 872, EX Fico 98 AU: 861
VS 3.0:...... EQ 835 TU 835 EX 835
CBIS: ........EQ LN Auto 940 EQ LN Home 870 TU Auto 902 TU Home 950
Message 32 of 102
SouthJamaica
Mega Contributor

Re: [Updated] My scores peaking, the calm before the storm


@Thomas_Thumb wrote:

@SouthJamaica wrote:

Here are results for my auto loan reporting, at 87.7% overall installment loan utilization.


(Notes. 1. TU score for FICO8 is from before I got my updated report. Other TU scores are from my updated report and are skewed, due to TU "inquiry glitch" -- all my recent inquiries being erased.
2. My TU scores are from a different scorecard than EQ and EX.)

 

FICO8 EQ 691 -30 TU 768 -41 EX 703 -20
FICO9 EQ 742 -49 TU 796 -33 EX 728 -47 Smiley Sad [are these before scores from the same point in time as the Fico 08 before scores?]
FICO Auto 8 EQ 698 -19 TU 794 -30 EX 700 -16
FICO Bankcard 8 EQ 701 -20 TU 800 -40 EX 717 -25
Mortgage [FICO5 = EQ Fico 04] 697 +2  [FICO4 = TU Fico 04] 746 -2  [FICO2 = EX Fico 98] 690 -13


So SJ, you pulled the 3B report early?

 

Being unable to postpone immediate gratification.... yes

 

Looks like Fico 09 punishes quite heavily for high B/L ratio.

 

Yes indeed

 

Perhaps more than Fico 08 on your dirty scorecards

 

Yes

 

and less than Fico 08 on your clean scorecard.

 

Be wary of drawing that conclusion because the clean scorecard, TU, had the benefit of all inquiries disappearing, which appeared to pick up 15 points for me in FICO 8. If FICO 9 also picks up 15 points for all my inquiries disappearing, then it would have been a 48 point drop, right in line with EQ FICO9 and EX FiCO9.

 

Data supports the prior findings that demonstrated Fico 04 does not consider B/L ratio in scoring as those differences are noise.

 

Interesting

 

How much did your EX FICO3 change?

 

-1 from 690 to 689

 

As expected, Fico 98 model was influenced by the increase in B/L ratio but, only "mild impact".


Just saw your additional question. The dates for FICO8 and FICO9 "before" scores were the same in TU. In EX and EQ they are not, but the FICO8 scores have been basically unchanged for those 2 bureaus, nothing of moment having happened, so it is reasonable to assume the same holds for FICO9.

 

Another complicating factor, the import of which escapes me, is that with today's update my EQ FICO 8 increased 9 points, to 700, for no reason that I'm able to discern.


Total revolving limits 741200 (620700 reporting) FICO 8: EQ 701 TU 704 EX 685

Message 33 of 102
Aahz
Established Contributor

Re: [Updated] My scores peaking, the calm before the storm


@SouthJamaica wrote:

OK so now I have the results of my auto loan reporting, on all 3 FICO8's:

 

EX down 20 points from 723 to 703

EQ down 30 points from 721 to 691

TU down 41 points from 809 to 768

 

Simulator had predicted 30, 35, and 30.... so I would say that was pretty accurate.

 

Footnotes:

1. This was 2nd open installment loan, first being a small share secured loan.

2. Installment loan utilization was down to 87.7% by the time loan hit; don't know if this softened the blow or not.

3. TU is in a different scorecard than the other 2.


I'm confused.  You debt increased and your scores decreased.  How does that jibe with your whole "FICO encourages debt" argument?

Message 34 of 102
SouthJamaica
Mega Contributor

Re: [Updated] My scores peaking, the calm before the storm


@Aahz wrote:

@SouthJamaica wrote:

OK so now I have the results of my auto loan reporting, on all 3 FICO8's:

 

EX down 20 points from 723 to 703

EQ down 30 points from 721 to 691

TU down 41 points from 809 to 768

 

Simulator had predicted 30, 35, and 30.... so I would say that was pretty accurate.

 

Footnotes:

1. This was 2nd open installment loan, first being a small share secured loan.

2. Installment loan utilization was down to 87.7% by the time loan hit; don't know if this softened the blow or not.

3. TU is in a different scorecard than the other 2.


I'm confused.  You debt increased and your scores decreased.  How does that jibe with your whole "FICO encourages debt" argument?


1. FICO8 not only encourages, it mandates debt. Without having incurred any debt you cannot even have a FICO score.

 

2.  In order to have an optimum FICO8 score you must have (a) an OPEN revolving account reporting a balance or (b) an OPEN installment loan reporting a balance, and you may need both.

 

3. The way it works with an installment loan is as follows:

 

(a) FICO8 slams you for having no open installment loan

(b) If you open an installment loan, and don't pay it down immediately, it slams you again for the new loan (my auto loan scenario at the moment)

(c) Once you have your installment loans collectively paid down to 9% or so, you are rewarded, and can have an optimum score

(d) Once you pay your installment loans down to zero, and have no open loans you get slammed again

 

4. The way it works with credit cards is as follows:

(a) FICO8 slams you for having no credit cards reporting a balance

(b) If you have one card reporting a small balance, you can have an optimum score

 

 


Total revolving limits 741200 (620700 reporting) FICO 8: EQ 701 TU 704 EX 685

Message 35 of 102
SouthJamaica
Mega Contributor

Re: [Updated] My scores peaking, the calm before the storm

OK I've paid the installment loans down to 79%, so in July when they report I'll let you know what happened.


Total revolving limits 741200 (620700 reporting) FICO 8: EQ 701 TU 704 EX 685

Message 36 of 102
Revelate
Moderator Emeritus

Re: [Updated] My scores peaking, the calm before the storm


@SouthJamaica wrote:

Here are results for my auto loan reporting, at 87.7% overall installment loan utilization.


(Notes. 1. TU score for FICO8 is from before I got my updated report. Other TU scores are from my updated report and are skewed, due to TU "inquiry glitch" -- all my recent inquiries being erased.
2. My TU scores are from a different scorecard than EQ and EX.)

 

FICO8 EQ 691 -30 TU 768 -41 EX 703 -20
FICO9 EQ 742 -49 TU 796 -33 EX 728 -47
FICO Auto 8 EQ 698 -19 TU 794 -30 EX 700 -16
FICO Bankcard 8 EQ 701 -20 TU 800 -40 EX 717 -25
Mortgage FICO5 EQ 697 +2 FICO4 TU 746 -2 FICO2 EX 690 -13


Now I'm even more confused why my own EQ FICO 9 models are defying gravity; my EX 9 is pretty much in line as expected with yours.

 

Off to find the data you posted previously and compare things like oldest account and AAOA on your TU file.




        
Message 37 of 102
SouthJamaica
Mega Contributor

Re: [Updated] My scores peaking, the calm before the storm


@Revelate wrote:

@SouthJamaica wrote:

Here are results for my auto loan reporting, at 87.7% overall installment loan utilization.


(Notes. 1. TU score for FICO8 is from before I got my updated report. Other TU scores are from my updated report and are skewed, due to TU "inquiry glitch" -- all my recent inquiries being erased.
2. My TU scores are from a different scorecard than EQ and EX.)

 

FICO8 EQ 691 -30 TU 768 -41 EX 703 -20
FICO9 EQ 742 -49 TU 796 -33 EX 728 -47
FICO Auto 8 EQ 698 -19 TU 794 -30 EX 700 -16
FICO Bankcard 8 EQ 701 -20 TU 800 -40 EX 717 -25
Mortgage FICO5 EQ 697 +2 FICO4 TU 746 -2 FICO2 EX 690 -13


Now I'm even more confused why my own EQ FICO 9 models are defying gravity; my EX 9 is pretty much in line as expected with yours.

 

Off to find the data you posted previously and compare things like oldest account and AAOA on your TU file.


Based on the MyFICO scoring factors my oldest account is 335 months and my AAOA is 40 months.

 

Bear in mind my TU scorecard is my sole "clean" scorecard.


Total revolving limits 741200 (620700 reporting) FICO 8: EQ 701 TU 704 EX 685

Message 38 of 102
Revelate
Moderator Emeritus

Re: [Updated] My scores peaking, the calm before the storm


@SouthJamaica wrote:

@Revelate wrote:

@SouthJamaica wrote:

Here are results for my auto loan reporting, at 87.7% overall installment loan utilization.


(Notes. 1. TU score for FICO8 is from before I got my updated report. Other TU scores are from my updated report and are skewed, due to TU "inquiry glitch" -- all my recent inquiries being erased.
2. My TU scores are from a different scorecard than EQ and EX.)

 

FICO8 EQ 691 -30 TU 768 -41 EX 703 -20
FICO9 EQ 742 -49 TU 796 -33 EX 728 -47
FICO Auto 8 EQ 698 -19 TU 794 -30 EX 700 -16
FICO Bankcard 8 EQ 701 -20 TU 800 -40 EX 717 -25
Mortgage FICO5 EQ 697 +2 FICO4 TU 746 -2 FICO2 EX 690 -13


Now I'm even more confused why my own EQ FICO 9 models are defying gravity; my EX 9 is pretty much in line as expected with yours.

 

Off to find the data you posted previously and compare things like oldest account and AAOA on your TU file.


Based on the MyFICO scoring factors my oldest account is 335 months and my AAOA is 40 months.

 

Bear in mind my TU scorecard is my sole "clean" scorecard.


Yeah, which is why I'm flatly surprised that my EQ is looking more and more like a clean scorecard which realistically shouldn't be the case as the almighty reason code is there:

 

1. You have a public record and/or collection on your credit report.

 

AAOA effectively identical, both have aged PR's, I may have a smattering of deliquencies you don't back in the past on EX and we're similar there scorewise (which we should be barring transient balances or inquiries), your TU and my EQ being comparable scores, is passing strange.

 

Ah well, clearly I'm not likely to figure it out until the tax lien comes off both EX and EQ and seeing what the scores do, but the odds of my levitating non-trivially past 800 on EQ when that's gone are absurd based on your data.  Is interesting that your oldest account is so much greater than mine, when I do get to a clean scorecard, will be interesting to see based on where you are with ugly installment utilization.

 

ETA: to be clear I know can't compare EQ and TU directly but FICO marketing was talking up how they should be more consistent scores in FICO 9 to address the many lender complaints to the effect that the scores weren't consistent across bureaus that the bureaus with Vantage were beating them over the head with.




        
Message 39 of 102
SouthJamaica
Mega Contributor

Re: [Updated] My scores peaking, the calm before the storm


@Revelate wrote:

@SouthJamaica wrote:

@Revelate wrote:

@SouthJamaica wrote:

Here are results for my auto loan reporting, at 87.7% overall installment loan utilization.


(Notes. 1. TU score for FICO8 is from before I got my updated report. Other TU scores are from my updated report and are skewed, due to TU "inquiry glitch" -- all my recent inquiries being erased.
2. My TU scores are from a different scorecard than EQ and EX.)

 

FICO8 EQ 691 -30 TU 768 -41 EX 703 -20
FICO9 EQ 742 -49 TU 796 -33 EX 728 -47
FICO Auto 8 EQ 698 -19 TU 794 -30 EX 700 -16
FICO Bankcard 8 EQ 701 -20 TU 800 -40 EX 717 -25
Mortgage FICO5 EQ 697 +2 FICO4 TU 746 -2 FICO2 EX 690 -13


Now I'm even more confused why my own EQ FICO 9 models are defying gravity; my EX 9 is pretty much in line as expected with yours.

 

Off to find the data you posted previously and compare things like oldest account and AAOA on your TU file.


Based on the MyFICO scoring factors my oldest account is 335 months and my AAOA is 40 months.

 

Bear in mind my TU scorecard is my sole "clean" scorecard.


Yeah, which is why I'm flatly surprised that my EQ is looking more and more like a clean scorecard which realistically shouldn't be the case as the almighty reason code is there:

 

1. You have a public record and/or collection on your credit report.

 

AAOA effectively identical, both have aged PR's, I may have a smattering of deliquencies you don't back in the past on EX and we're similar there scorewise (which we should be barring transient balances or inquiries), your TU and my EQ being comparable scores, is passing strange.

 

Ah well, clearly I'm not likely to figure it out until the tax lien comes off both EX and EQ and seeing what the scores do, but the odds of my levitating non-trivially past 800 on EQ when that's gone are absurd based on your data.  Is interesting that your oldest account is so much greater than mine, when I do get to a clean scorecard, will be interesting to see based on where you are with ugly installment utilization.

 

ETA: to be clear I know can't compare EQ and TU directly but FICO marketing was talking up how they should be more consistent scores in FICO 9 to address the many lender complaints to the effect that the scores weren't consistent across bureaus that the bureaus with Vantage were beating them over the head with.


Yeah well my ugly installment utilization can easily be managed since it's not very large [even my auto loan isn't much... I live modestly]. Yours, a mortage, is not so easy to get rid of.


Total revolving limits 741200 (620700 reporting) FICO 8: EQ 701 TU 704 EX 685

Message 40 of 102
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