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Help! Has TU changed their FICO formula?

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Striving
Member

Help! Has TU changed their FICO formula?

12/29/09

CC "1" balance: $14.6k

CC "1" CL: $30k

CC "2" balance: $9.5k

CC "2" CL: $18.2k

 

Student loans, total: $91k

 

TU FICO: 781 ("Great")

 

Amount of Debt: "Not Good"

 

Under "Understanding your FICO Score" and "What's hurting your FICO score" is only 1 item: "You've made heavy use of your available revolving credit" (ratio listed as 52%). No other negatives.

 

Last week I inquired, as I have before, w/CC "2" to see if they'd increase my CL to $20k. They declined. No biggie (I thought!).

 

7/20/10

CC "1" balance: $13.00

CC "1" CL: $30k

CC "2" balance: $16.6k (it has a lower interest rate)

CC "2" CL: $18.2k

 

Student loans, total: $85.8k

 

TU FICO: 755 ("Very Good")

 

Amount of Debt: "Bad"

 

Under "Understanding your FICO Score" and "What's hurting your FICO score" is: (1) "You've made heavy use of your available revolving credit" (ratio listed as 91%), and a new item, (2) "The balances on your non-mortgage credit accounts are too high" (~$102k).

 

I reduce my student loan debt by $5k, reduce my CC debt by $7.5k, have one new hard inquiry and my TU FICO drops by 26 pts?!!!


QUESTIONS

 

1) Why does TU FICO now put my student loans into the same category as CC debt when that was not the case in Dec 2009 (nor in my Nov 2009 TU FICO)?

 

2) Why does TU FICO now have a new (for me) "What's hurting your FICO score" category of "The balances on your non-mortgage credit accounts are too high" when I did not have this in Nov or Dec 2009?

 

3) (Deleted. See post #5 below.)

 

4) For some reason, the TU FICO shows my CL increase request on CC "2" as a hard inquiry in the Inquiries subsection, but it is not mentioned on the 1st or 2nd pages ("Understanding Your FICO Score"). I've asked for CL increases in the past and have both been given them and not been given them, but they never showed as hard inquiries before. Should I call CC "2" and complain and ask/demand that they contact TU and have them withdraw the hard inquiry? Should I have CC "2" contact EX if they reported to them too? (There are no inquiries on my 20 July EQ FICO.)

~~~~~~~
EQ FICO: 739 (May '09), 749 (Dec '09), 753 (July '10)

TU FICO: bounces around between 750 and 800

Goals: both >759 by March 2011; >779 by Dec 2012
Message 1 of 7
6 REPLIES 6
chasmith
Valued Contributor

Re: Help! Has TU changed their FICO formula?

A couple of possibilities:

 

You raised utilization on CC 2 from 52% to 92%.  Remember total utilization AND utilization on each account matter.  That may have triggered the score drop.

 

The reasons given aren't always that meaningful.  Triggering that high utilization on one account may have triggered other things in the scoring (re-bucketing even?).

 

 

BK7 Filed 8/11/2009 Discharged 11/23/2009. Purchased new home 4/11/2012
Starting Score:11/16/2009 EQ 566 11/16/2009 TU 538
Interim Score: 12/27/2012 EQ 683 09/17/2012 EX (lender) 670 1/01/2013 TU 701
Current Score: 11/06/2013 EQ 708 11/06/2013 EX 702 11/16/2013 702 11/06/2013 TU 729
Goal Score: EQ 740 EX 740 TU 740
Take the FICO Fitness Challenge
Message 2 of 7
llecs
Moderator Emeritus

Re: Help! Has TU changed their FICO formula?

Striving, welcome to the forums!

 

Nope! No changes to the score, though any change helping our FICOs sure would be welcome.

 

Before I get into your questions, I noticed a couple of things in your post. Thanks for posting the detail. Your 12/29 pull looks normal. Your 7/20 pull looks different in that CC#2 is showing 91% utilization which matches the util mentioned as neg. reason #1. For whatever reason, your CC#1 changed in that it is no longer reflected into your overall utilization.

 

Did you do anything to CC#1, like close it (BTW, closed CCs w/ a balance still factor in)?

Did that CCC offer you any "upgrade" or volunteer you for an "upgrade" to a card like a signature card?

Check the CL within the report again. Are you certain it still says $30,000? Many companies are shutting down CLs and that really impacts scores.

When was the last time you made a payment or used this CC?

 

I suspect this CC is the cuplrit. My fallback would be neg. #2, which certainly could be caused by that CC. But it says $102k for all non-mortgage accounts and you have $85.8 listed for your SLs. The difference is $16.2k. This was there previously, right? Or....could this be CC#1? If not, is this a new account or new loan? If not, do you have any added accounts aside from a new loan like a collection? And this is important, were you approved for any new accounts with that inquiry or was it due to the CLI request?

 

To answer your questions:

 

1) I don't see any evidence of SLs being counted as revolving. If so, that 91% would have been different. It is listed as a #2 negative, but that's unrelated to #1.

 

2) As your utilization gets higher and/or your accounts change in age (e.g. newer), it isn't uncommon to have factors come and go. I suspect hitting 91% util resulted in the #2 neg. being added. and CC#1 reverting as an installment TL as suspected.

 

3) Why does it not factor? See above....one other question....double check your CL on CC#1, did the CL increase beyond that and you not see it?

 

4) It isn't uncommon for hard inquiries to appear after requesting a CLI. In fact, most CCs now place hard inquiries, especially after the CC Law was enacted earlier this year.

Message 3 of 7
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Help! Has TU changed their FICO formula?

Ok, this is EXACTLY the same issue I saw with my auto loan.  All of a sudden, within the past four months, EX and TU started complaining about my high level of non-mortgage debt.  My car loan is 3/4 paid off, no lates or any derogs  I only let one CC report each month, less than 1% UTIL. 

 

I thought it was because I'd somehow moved into another bucket... but now I'm not sure.

Message 4 of 7
Striving
Member

Re: Help! Has TU changed their FICO formula?

Thanks for all the replies!

 

Update:

 

I made a mistake with question #3 (thus I've deleted it from the OP). It said, "3) Why does TU FICO no long count CC "1" to my total revolving credit lines? My utilization would only have been 35%, not 91%, if it had (like they did in Nov and Dec 2009)."

 

Turns out I was wrong (shocking, I know Smiley Wink). I had just done crude calculation in my head w/the Dec '09 TU FICO and saw that my combined revolving util was ~50%, so I assumed that was what TU FICO was using in their "What's hurting your FICO score" info. Turns out for the data they were using, both CCs had ~50% util, so I didn't realize they used only CC "2" for that credit util calculation. When I checked today w/my Nov '09 TU FICO, that became clear since my CC "1" util was 56%, CC "2" util was 74%, combo util was 63%, and TU FICO in "What's hurting" said my revolving util was . . . 74%! Thus, for whatever reason (it's high CL?), TU FICO treats -- for that one revolving util calculation -- my CC "1" revolving account CL differently, perhaps as a LOC. This would help me if I ran a balance up on CC "1" since it wouldn't factor into that revolving credit util calculation. But here, since that CC has the higher interest rate and I shifted purchases onto CC "2" while paying off CC "1", that disproportionately hurt me as CC "2"'s balance increased.

 

The ironic thing is that I had asked CC "2" about a year ago for a CLI when I was carrying only ~$8k on the $18.2k CL. They said "no" because my balance was so low that I didn't need an increase. Now, because my revolv credit util is calculated w/o CC "1" CL, they may have said "no" because my revolving util was so high! "Darned if you do. Darned if you don't!"

 

FWIW I was also stung by TU using old data. My CC "2" util was at 91% way back on the closing of my statment on 6/15. I've made two payments since then, knocking it down to 87% on 7/16 (latest statement), and 83% currently. I should have waited 2 months before getting my TU FICO and asking CC "2" for a CLI. . . .

 

ETA: I should mention that under the "Credit-at-a-Glance" section, CC "1" is treated as revolving credit and in the details section for each TL, it says that CC "1" is a revolving account.

 

So, questions 1, 2, and 4 still remain. 

 

Re. Qs 1 & 2: I still don't know why TU FICO started bundling my student loans w/CC debt ("non-mortgage" debt). I would think they should be viewed more like a mortgage, but then again, since they are unsecured, I guess that's why they put them w/CCs in that one calculation. But why are they doing this now when they didn't in Nov or Dec '09? I don't know. Same w/why there's the new category of "non-mortgage" debt showing under "What's hurting. . .." Perhaps having my CC util (using only CC "2"), at 91% put me into a new "bucket"/scorecard where that matters. Once I get my TU FICO CC util (i.e., CC "2" util) back to 74% where it was in Nov '09, I'll get another TU FICO to see if that new category goes away.

 

Re. Q4: The mess caused by TU FICO not counting my CC "1" CL toward revolving util (above), may have required CC "2" to do a hard inquiry to get more details when I requested a CLI. They told me that they had to review my request manually and I was on hold for about 10 - 15 minutes, so they may have gone over the entire report. I'm still not sure if I should try to get them to ask TU to switch it from a hard to a soft inquiry, if possible.

 

~~~~~~~
EQ FICO: 739 (May '09), 749 (Dec '09), 753 (July '10)

TU FICO: bounces around between 750 and 800

Goals: both >759 by March 2011; >779 by Dec 2012
Message 5 of 7
Striving
Member

Re: Help! Has TU changed their FICO formula?

Re. Q4, trying to change hard INQ to soft: Well, I tried several different people, but no luck. I finally got the department head and she said that they cannot predict ahead of time whether the system will require a hard or soft INQ, that everytime you ask for a CLI now is crapshoot whether it is hard or not, that even the periodic automatic reviews they may run on you to see if you qualify for a CLI may now generate a hard INQ, that the only way to be sure you won't get a hard INQ is to not requests CLIs and to opt out of automatic reviews for possible CLIs.

 

She also said they cannot change the type/code of the INQ after it is submitted.

 

Oh well, I tried.

 

I told her I won't be asking for a CLI in the future. She asked if I wanted to opt out of their automatic, periodic review of my account to see if I qualify for a CLI. I said I'm not sure. I'll wait at this point. 

 

I guess 1 hard INQ won't hurt me too much. I'm just trying my best to get my EQ and TU FICOs above 760 and then above 780 ASAP. Once I'm above 780 on both, I won't be sweating over every little thing like I am now. My guess is, barring a significant change for the worse, I'll be at 760 by the end of this year or early next year.

~~~~~~~
EQ FICO: 739 (May '09), 749 (Dec '09), 753 (July '10)

TU FICO: bounces around between 750 and 800

Goals: both >759 by March 2011; >779 by Dec 2012
Message 6 of 7
smallfry
Senior Contributor

Re: Help! Has TU changed their FICO formula?

Here's what I can glean from my TU score and the slight moves over the past few months. Always 1% utilization and always no inquiries. My AAofA has gone from 4 to 5 on my July pull and the only change I see is in length of credit history going from Good to Very Good. Even with a new CC opening in April I see a move from Good to Very Good in Amount of New Credit. As far as the scoring goes TU likes no balances or as few as possible at least for me. With a small balance on a Car Loan and under 1% on 1 CC I scored 796. Total of 7 Open Accounts. With 2 CC and a Car Loan reporting I saw 790 last nite even with a bump in AAofA from 4 to 5. Oldest Account 14 years 4 months. Obviously AAofA 5 years is not a magic number for score. Maybe 6 years? Comments have gone from Great VG VG VG to Great Great VG VG.

Message 7 of 7
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