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How high is possible with old serious derogs?

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nycfico
Regular Contributor

How high is possible with old serious derogs?

I know it's impossible to answer me with any real degree of precision, but can somebody give me a feel for what I can expect based on others' experiences in here?

My Fico scores range right now from 645 to 658.

 

I had an IRS tax lien issued in March of 2014.  Once I get that down below $25k, I am hopeful I can get it struck once I set up automatic payments each month by next February or March.

 

Assuming I do that, what can I expect if I have been over 3 years of perfect payments, along with 4 credit cards and an auto loan?  I have a 20+ year credit history, which was perfect through 2009, but  although with three charged off accounts from 2010 through 2012 and a paid state tax lien in 2011?

 

Assume low utilization, under 10%.

 

Is it probably impossible to break over 700 with four major baddies, albeit all of them, by next March, 4 years and over?  Am I stuck in a 'dirty bucket' and under a ceiling until they all fall off in about 2019?  Or might I eventually break into the 720+ range if I keep everything optimal?

 

Message 1 of 35
34 REPLIES 34
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: How high is possible with old serious derogs?

 I'd venture to say I have topped out my scorecard. Other than the federal tax liens, my file is pretty, no other derogatories, 3 cards, 1 car, 2 mortgages on 2 properties (1 each) and utilization optimized 3% overall with 7% on one card, AAoA 8 years, Oldest Account 18 years

 

WIth 3 federal tax liens showing as unpaid (they have been paid and released, but not updated on my credit reports).  So you can eventually get there.

 

 

Message 2 of 35
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: How high is possible with old serious derogs?


@nycfico wrote:

 

I had an IRS tax lien issued in March of 2014.  Once I get that down below $25k, I am hopeful I can get it struck once I set up automatic payments each month by next February or March.

 


Get your payments set up now.  Get in a Direct Debit Installment Agreement (DDIA) now as it takes 3-5 months for the bureaucrats to set it up, assuming they do it right the first time.  Once you are in the DDIA, make 3 paymetns and do everything you can to get the balance below $25,000.  The day it drops below $25,000 fill out a form 12277, call and schedule an appointment with your Collection Advisory Group Office (www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p4235.pdf) and take them the signed form with whatever kind of documentation you want to show them that you are now no longer a risk.  If you are nice, they might withdraw the lien on the spot and give you the Notice of Federal Tax Lien Withdrawal to take and have recorded at your local recording office.  Worst case, they will tell you 30 days.  If you don't have any other tax issues, you should get it withdrawn.

Message 3 of 35
nycfico
Regular Contributor

Re: How high is possible with old serious derogs?

How old are your liens, though?  Also you seem to be in a better position than I as I have three charged off accounts in addition to a paid state tax lien.

Message 4 of 35
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: How high is possible with old serious derogs?

^^^

 

My liens are 3-4 years old.

At one time I had 5 liens, I was able to get two withdrawn.  No change in score dropping from 5 to 3.  These last 3 are all the same "lien" on 3 different properties in 3 different counties.

 

Get your utilization in order first and see what that does for your score.

 

Get in the DDIA and get your lien balance below $25,000 as fast as possible, then start requesting a withdrawal. Then you will only have your charge offs to deal with.

 

Its daunting, but you can do it!

 

 

Message 5 of 35
Revelate
Moderator Emeritus

Re: How high is possible with old serious derogs?

My file is as clean as it gets right now for another comparison datapoint other than some inquiries.

 

AAOA 2 years (about to tick over 3 won't make it as I'm starting a small spree now that my mortgage has closed hah); good number of cards, pretty revolving and installment utillization currently. 

 

EX 739 FICO 8, and you can see my original mortgage pull scores in my siggy.  If you want more scores I can provide.

 

Depressing my score I have from late 2010: tax lien, 30/60 late, $190 collection.

 

Actually I was at 720 on EX/TU close to a year ago too, so yeah it can be done; that said, there is a capped bound with derogatories still on report, but a 756 on a FICO 8 score is the highest I ever saw reported here right before their last derog fell off... all anecdotal but both inverse and I are sitting near enough to 740 with non-trivial derogs to show you can get better than where you are at now absolutely.




        
Message 6 of 35
nycfico
Regular Contributor

Re: How high is possible with old serious derogs?


@Revelate wrote:

My file is as clean as it gets right now for another comparison datapoint other than some inquiries.

 

AAOA 2 years (about to tick over 3 won't make it as I'm starting a small spree now that my mortgage has closed hah); good number of cards, pretty revolving and installment utillization currently. 

 

EX 739 FICO 8, and you can see my original mortgage pull scores in my siggy.  If you want more scores I can provide.

 

Depressing my score I have from late 2010: tax lien, 30/60 late, $190 collection.

 

Actually I was at 720 on EX/TU close to a year ago too, so yeah it can be done; that said, there is a capped bound with derogatories still on report, but a 756 on a FICO 8 score is the highest I ever saw reported here right before their last derog fell off... all anecdotal but both inverse and I are sitting near enough to 740 with non-trivial derogs to show you can get better than where you are at now absolutely.


That's helpful, thanks.

 

The one advantage I have over you is AAoA...whichis 8.5 years and my oldest account is over 20 years.

 

But right now I actually have three liens:  one paid state tax lien for $540 from 2011.  And then two IRS liens, issued simultaneously in March of 2014.  When the IRS liens were issued, they actually had a pretty negligible effect. as I was in the 550's to begin with...about 5 points or something, and my scores are now about 100 point higher thanthey were at that time....about 16 months ago.

 

If I can get to 740, then I should be able to get a quality mortgage, given I have a pretty high income.  

 

It's funny...time seems to be going so fast in almost all aspects of my life.  but not with the credit situation....

Message 7 of 35
masscredit
Valued Contributor

Re: How high is possible with old serious derogs?

I was thinking about this question for my scores because I've been gaining a lot of points this year. I think it's because my IIB accounts are aging off. It's been a few months since I've looked at my reports and I should pull my EX score soon. Haven't done that since the beginning of the year.  I keep detailed records for all of my reports so here is a quick rundown of the baddies that I have on my EQ nd TU -

 

EQ - 

 

3 IIB accounts - 2 will fall off 11/15 and the other one 1/16

2 IRS tax liens - Date of assessment - 11/03/08 and 9/21/09

1 State tax lien - Recorded 2/17/09 - Paid 10/14 - Released date at Registry - 1/29/15 - I wish this could be deleted! 

1BK - Filed 6/09

 

TU -

 

1 IIB account - might fall off next month (8/15)

3 IRS tax liens - Date of assessment - 11/03/08, 9/21/09 and 5/30/11

1 BK - Filed 6/09

 

EQ04 is 696 and EQ08 is 721

TU08 is 680

 

I know everything above is getting old so they don't carry as much weight now but they still have to be substancilly holding my scores back. Maybe by 50 points or more?  I've read that others have seen a 60-70 + point increase after things like liens or BKs have fallen off.   

 

Something else that I've wondered is are the score rebucketed after that happens? I haven't throughly researched that yet. I wouldn't be happy if I gain a bunch of points after all of the negative accounts fall off and then lose a lot of them because I'm put into a different bucket. 

Pre-Credit Rebuild Scores Pre-DC (3/24/22) - EQ - 524 / TU - 519 / EX - 495

Current Scores - EQ - 687 / TU - 663/ EX - 677

SDFCU Secured - $5000 / TD Bank - $5000 / Mercury - $5000 / Capital One Savor One- $5000 / Capital One QuickSiver - $4500 / Ally Master Card - $2800/ Walmart Mastercard - $2250

Andrews FCU SSL $1500
Message 8 of 35
Revelate
Moderator Emeritus

Re: How high is possible with old serious derogs?

I think it's safe to say for the vast majority of derogs if you have one on your record you'll be bucketed.  Certainly tax liens, BK, yup, we get to enjoy our dirty buckets.  Also regardless getting a major derog off is always ALWAYS a good thing regardless of what bucket you get sorted into... not enough positive history is a short term problem, though I do think anyone with a dirty file should not only work on derogs, but also at a minimum open a couple of accounts anyway and come at the algorithm from both sides when we're talking improvement.

 

@nycfico: tax liens if you already have one on your report are pretty *meh* on most algorithms.  I moved a whopping 5 points on EQ Beacon 5.0 when a brand spanking new federal tax lien got added.  I literally LOL'd when I saw that before yawning heh.

 

The last one coming off is always the biggest deal, ones before that, not so much.  Yeah your AAOA is much better than mine, so really you should be able to get higher than my scores if you put the lipstick on the pig.




        
Message 9 of 35
Stylez
Valued Member

Re: How high is possible with old serious derogs?

I have a satisfied judgement from 2012 and several lates ranging from 30 to 120 days on one account from 2010. My FICO 8 scores all lie between 762 and 764.

Message 10 of 35
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