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How high is possible with old serious derogs?

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Revelate
Moderator Emeritus

Re: How high is possible with old serious derogs?


@Stylez wrote:

I have a satisfied judgement from 2012 and several lates ranging from 30 to 120 days on one account from 2010. My FICO 8 scores all lie between 762 and 764.


From here or where?  

 

Only reason I ask is that's pretty high given that both a satisfied judgement and a 120 late are major derogatories.  What are any of your other scores if you know them?




        
Message 11 of 35
Stylez
Valued Member

Re: How high is possible with old serious derogs?

I got my FICO 8 score from here. My TU and Ex FICO 8 scores I get from my Discover card and my Chase Slate card. I got my Mortgage score on here a few months ago and it was 723. I get a bankcard score from my Citi card, that score is 778(out of 900). I think what helps me is that my credit profile dates back to 2000. I also have 45 accounts. So although I have some major derogs, I have a perfect payment history on a bunch of accounts. I also have between 0 and 3 inquiries on all my credit reports, and I haven't had late payment in over 4 years. My utilization is also ranges from 1-3%. So if you have major dergos, they better be old, you need to have plenty of accounts with perfect payment history, and you have to be almost perfect in every other area.

Message 12 of 35
mmmlive1999
Frequent Contributor

Re: How high is possible with old serious derogs?

I have 2 tax liens from 2008 and 2009 that are paid. They only show up on Equifax, but even with util under 9% I can't get that score over 694.

This is with no other baddies and AAOA at 8 yrs. YMMVSmiley Wink


Starting Score: 6/6/12: TU 585/EQ 472/ EX 561
Current Score: All 800's
Cap1 QS - $17k, Chase Southwest- $25k, Discover IT - $50k
Message 13 of 35
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: How high is possible with old serious derogs?


@mmmlive1999 wrote:

I have 2 tax liens from 2008 and 2009 that are paid. They only show up on Equifax, but even with util under 9% I can't get that score over 694.

This is with no other baddies and AAOA at 8 yrs. YMMVSmiley Wink


Are you referring to your FICO 8 scores or your EQ 04 score?

 

Mortgage scores don't like tax liens! FICO 8 seems a little more forgiving.

 

How many cards do you have reporting a balance?

 

Do you have any installment loans?

 

Do you have a mortgage?

Message 14 of 35
Revelate
Moderator Emeritus

Re: How high is possible with old serious derogs?


@Anonymous wrote:

@mmmlive1999 wrote:

I have 2 tax liens from 2008 and 2009 that are paid. They only show up on Equifax, but even with util under 9% I can't get that score over 694.

This is with no other baddies and AAOA at 8 yrs. YMMVSmiley Wink


Are you referring to your FICO 8 scores or your EQ 04 score?

 

Mortgage scores don't like tax liens! FICO 8 seems a little more forgiving.

 

How many cards do you have reporting a balance?

 

Do you have any installment loans?

 

Do you have a mortgage?


Betting this is the case under a FICO 8 algorithm.  I do know my score was at a 693 on FICO 8 until I played reindeer games with my baby installment loans, and at 726 now even with one additional inquiry scoring against me on EQ (one fell off, another gets tacked on, go me!).  I likewise have a tax lien from 2010, though I have other derogs too and a way less AAOA of ~3 years currently.  

 




        
Message 15 of 35
Revelate
Moderator Emeritus

Re: How high is possible with old serious derogs?


@Stylez wrote:

I got my FICO 8 score from here. My TU and Ex FICO 8 scores I get from my Discover card and my Chase Slate card. I got my Mortgage score on here a few months ago and it was 723. I get a bankcard score from my Citi card, that score is 778(out of 900). I think what helps me is that my credit profile dates back to 2000. I also have 45 accounts. So although I have some major derogs, I have a perfect payment history on a bunch of accounts. I also have between 0 and 3 inquiries on all my credit reports, and I haven't had late payment in over 4 years. My utilization is also ranges from 1-3%. So if you have major dergos, they better be old, you need to have plenty of accounts with perfect payment history, and you have to be almost perfect in every other area.


Interesting, I'm at 726/730/737 currently though think that was all at AAOA 2 years, 17 accounts, credit file open way back but oldest account on record was opened in 2008 (I let myself become a nofile, dumb dumb dumb back in those days).  That's with a 30/60, tax lien, and paid collection from 2010, pristine since then, likewise optimal utilization and low inquiries since I was chasing a mortgage and cut my post-mortgage spree utterly short after Chase did right by me.

 

Congrats though!  That is the highest scores in a dirty bucket on FICO 8 that I'm aware of; the EQ Beacon 5 score is more in line with expectations.  There was a change with FICO 8 that suggested if there's a problem in isolation that it'll be disregarded; given that a 120+ late is a serious derogatory, I wonder if that's what's happening with your file possibly just with the one bad tradeline?

 

Appreciate the datapoint!




        
Message 16 of 35
nycfico
Regular Contributor

Re: How high is possible with old serious derogs?

Hmmm...all of this is making me think.

I was operating under the assumption (hope?) that once I can get my IRS lien struck...hopefully by the springtime next year....that my score would rise in a meaningful fashion as my other state tax lien was issued (and then paid within a few weeks), back in August of 2011, which would mean it would be nearly 5 years old next spring.

But the more I read in here, the more it seems this IRS lien (issued in March of 2014) is likely not having as much of an impact on the score as I thought.  As it is newer, I suppose it is having more of an impact than the state lien, but I shouldn't probably expect a 40 or 50 point jump when I get rid of it....

Message 17 of 35
nycfico
Regular Contributor

Re: How high is possible with old serious derogs?

So, here is another question I've asked before but never really understood the answer on liens.

My understanding is that unlike, say, a credit card default, a tax lien will stay on your record for seven years past the final date of payment, not from the date of issue.  So, let's say you have a lien issued in January of 2012 and it takes four years to pay off, to January of 2016.  My understanding is that it would then stay on your report until January of 2023.  

So does that mean the aging of an upaid lien is not helping your score until it is paid?  Is it essentially having the same impact as the day it was issued, even if months or years have passed?

Message 18 of 35
Revelate
Moderator Emeritus

Re: How high is possible with old serious derogs?


@nycfico wrote:

So, here is another question I've asked before but never really understood the answer on liens.

My understanding is that unlike, say, a credit card default, a tax lien will stay on your record for seven years past the final date of payment, not from the date of issue.  So, let's say you have a lien issued in January of 2012 and it takes four years to pay off, to January of 2016.  My understanding is that it would then stay on your report until January of 2023.  

So does that mean the aging of an upaid lien is not helping your score until it is paid?  Is it essentially having the same impact as the day it was issued, even if months or years have passed?


To your earlier question, if you have 2 tax liens on your report, if one comes off, don't expect a tremendous amount of movement.

 

Sadly you (and I) get stuck on tax liens: the presence of of tax lien absolutely dumps you into a dirty bucket, and this limits your max score as each bucket has a scoring range (max / min). 

 

Paying your tax lien sadly doesn't help your score period if it remains now on the report as released / paid much like collections under FICO 8 and earlier.  Does appear to help VantageScore though if you care about such things.  Aging does help somewhat, but you're still limited by the dirty bucket assignment.  It's why those of us with tax liens or BK's seemingly can't break call it mid-750 on a FICO 8 score card.  I may be as high as I get right now within spitting distance of 740 on EX FICO 8 before my mortgage reports, but I suspect regardless of how mortgage impacts my score (could whack it by as much as 30 points depending how it's categorized) once the tax lien is gone I'll be 780+ without much trouble.

 

 




        
Message 19 of 35
nycfico
Regular Contributor

Re: How high is possible with old serious derogs?


@Revelate wrote:

@nycfico wrote:

So, here is another question I've asked before but never really understood the answer on liens.

My understanding is that unlike, say, a credit card default, a tax lien will stay on your record for seven years past the final date of payment, not from the date of issue.  So, let's say you have a lien issued in January of 2012 and it takes four years to pay off, to January of 2016.  My understanding is that it would then stay on your report until January of 2023.  

So does that mean the aging of an upaid lien is not helping your score until it is paid?  Is it essentially having the same impact as the day it was issued, even if months or years have passed?


To your earlier question, if you have 2 tax liens on your report, if one comes off, don't expect a tremendous amount of movement.

 

Sadly you (and I) get stuck on tax liens: the presence of of tax lien absolutely dumps you into a dirty bucket, and this limits your max score as each bucket has a scoring range (max / min). 

 

Paying your tax lien sadly doesn't help your score period if it remains now on the report as released / paid much like collections under FICO 8 and earlier.  Does appear to help VantageScore though if you care about such things.  Aging does help somewhat, but you're still limited by the dirty bucket assignment.  It's why those of us with tax liens or BK's seemingly can't break call it mid-750 on a FICO 8 score card.  I may be as high as I get right now within spitting distance of 740 on EX FICO 8 before my mortgage reports, but I suspect regardless of how mortgage impacts my score (could whack it by as much as 30 points depending how it's categorized) once the tax lien is gone I'll be 780+ without much trouble.

 

 


I think it was you who were going for a jumbo mortgage....were you able to get that with your scores?

Message 20 of 35
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