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How high is possible with old serious derogs?

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Revelate
Moderator Emeritus

Re: How high is possible with old serious derogs?


@nycfico wrote:

@Revelate wrote:

@nycfico wrote:

So, here is another question I've asked before but never really understood the answer on liens.

My understanding is that unlike, say, a credit card default, a tax lien will stay on your record for seven years past the final date of payment, not from the date of issue.  So, let's say you have a lien issued in January of 2012 and it takes four years to pay off, to January of 2016.  My understanding is that it would then stay on your report until January of 2023.  

So does that mean the aging of an upaid lien is not helping your score until it is paid?  Is it essentially having the same impact as the day it was issued, even if months or years have passed?


To your earlier question, if you have 2 tax liens on your report, if one comes off, don't expect a tremendous amount of movement.

 

Sadly you (and I) get stuck on tax liens: the presence of of tax lien absolutely dumps you into a dirty bucket, and this limits your max score as each bucket has a scoring range (max / min). 

 

Paying your tax lien sadly doesn't help your score period if it remains now on the report as released / paid much like collections under FICO 8 and earlier.  Does appear to help VantageScore though if you care about such things.  Aging does help somewhat, but you're still limited by the dirty bucket assignment.  It's why those of us with tax liens or BK's seemingly can't break call it mid-750 on a FICO 8 score card.  I may be as high as I get right now within spitting distance of 740 on EX FICO 8 before my mortgage reports, but I suspect regardless of how mortgage impacts my score (could whack it by as much as 30 points depending how it's categorized) once the tax lien is gone I'll be 780+ without much trouble.

 

 


I think it was you who were going for a jumbo mortgage....were you able to get that with your scores?


On the original loan?  Yeah I qualified easily.  680 appears to be the line for most jumbo lenders on a mortgage mid-score, and I was north of 720.  My installment utilization is nice and pretty now so my FICO 8 scores are once again above my mortgage trifecta that's still in my siggy.




        
Message 21 of 35
masscredit
Valued Contributor

Re: How high is possible with old serious derogs?

I have two state tax liens that I paid in September of last year. I contacted each CRA after that to have the listings updated. A few ended up deleting at least one of the liens from my report.

 

EX -

 

State - $7292.00 - Status:
State tax lien paid,released.
Status Details: This item is scheduled to continue on record until Nov 2015.

 

State - $159.00 - Status:
State tax lien paid,released.
Status Details: This item is scheduled to continue on record until Aug 2020.

 

I don't know why one is going to fall off in a few months and the other will hang until 2020.

 

EQ - 

 

This lien has been released.
This lien has been withdrawn, vacated or filed in error. (was deleted)

 

TU - 

 

RELEASE OF TAX LIEN DOCKET# xxxx -  DELETED
RELEASE OF TAX LIEN DOCKET# xxxx  DELETED

 

I was surprised they actually deleted them. Helped my scores a little.

 

I have 3 federal liens that will reach the SOL in a few years. What happens when they pass that point? They liens will have been on my reports for many years and are no longer collectible. Do they eventually fall or can I request to have them removed?

 

One other question while we're discussing liens, I believe the IRS has a fresh start program. From what I remember reading, I believe that allows people to set up a payment plan with the IRS then request that they withdraw the liens have making a few payments (it might be 3?). If that's the case, are the liens removed from the reports?

Pre-Credit Rebuild Scores Pre-DC (3/24/22) - EQ - 524 / TU - 519 / EX - 495

Current Scores - EQ - 687 / TU - 663/ EX - 677

SDFCU Secured - $5000 / TD Bank - $5000 / Mercury - $5000 / Capital One Savor One- $5000 / Capital One QuickSiver - $4500 / Ally Master Card - $2800/ Walmart Mastercard - $2250

Andrews FCU SSL $1500
Message 22 of 35
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: How high is possible with old serious derogs?


@masscredit wrote:

I have two state tax liens that I paid in September of last year. I contacted each CRA after that to have the listings updated. A few ended up deleting at least one of the .

 

I have 3 federal liens that will reach the SOL in a few years. What happens when they pass that point? They liens will have been on my reports for many years and are no longer collectible. Do they eventually fall or can I request to have them removed?

 

One other question while we're discussing liens, I believe the IRS has a fresh start program. From what I remember reading, I believe that allows people to set up a payment plan with the IRS then request that they withdraw the liens have making a few payments (it might be 3?). If that's the case, are the liens removed from the reports?


Surprised you were able to get a few liens removed from your reports after release, that gives many hope I am sure.  TU seems to be the most forgiving in this aspect.

 

It is unclear to me how the Federal Liens behave with respect to SoL.  I've read conflicting information.

 

With respect to Federal Liens and the Fresh Start Program, see post 3 in this thread.  And yes, after withdrawal, federal liens are removed from your report.

Message 23 of 35
Revelate
Moderator Emeritus

Re: How high is possible with old serious derogs?


@Anonymous wrote:

@masscredit wrote:

I have two state tax liens that I paid in September of last year. I contacted each CRA after that to have the listings updated. A few ended up deleting at least one of the .

 

I have 3 federal liens that will reach the SOL in a few years. What happens when they pass that point? They liens will have been on my reports for many years and are no longer collectible. Do they eventually fall or can I request to have them removed?

 

One other question while we're discussing liens, I believe the IRS has a fresh start program. From what I remember reading, I believe that allows people to set up a payment plan with the IRS then request that they withdraw the liens have making a few payments (it might be 3?). If that's the case, are the liens removed from the reports?


Surprised you were able to get a few liens removed from your reports after release, that gives many hope I am sure.  TU seems to be the most forgiving in this aspect.

 

It is unclear to me how the Federal Liens behave with respect to SoL.  I've read conflicting information.

 

With respect to Federal Liens and the Fresh Start Program, see post 3 in this thread.  And yes, after withdrawal, federal liens are removed from your report.


In my experience you can either wait for them to drop after the 10 years, or you are able to dispute as obsolete if you have your assessment date handy as outside SOL, though I only did this with one bureau and with EE and other things, hard to say whether my reason was valid or they just whacked it because it was easy.

 

Isn't hard to accomplish though.

 




        
Message 24 of 35
masscredit
Valued Contributor

Re: How high is possible with old serious derogs?

That's pretty much been my plan. I only have 3 years until the big one ($14K) reaches the SOL. Next one is the year after and then the small one reaches the SOL in '21.

 

So if I understand this correctly the options are -

 

The liens will fall off when they reach the SOL 10 years after the assessment date. If that doesn't happen then I can dispute them as obsolete or try from an EE.

 

The liens can be deleted if I set up a payment plan under their Fresh Start Program (http://www.irs.gov/uac/Newsroom/IRS-Fresh-Start-Program-Helps-Taxpayers-Who-Owe-the-IRS/). 

 

Final option is pay the liens. Something that I've thought about doing with the small one (about $400.00 with interest) after the other two reach the SOL. I think the final question that I have for the tax lien puzzle (for now) is when do the liens fall off credit reports after they are paid? 

Pre-Credit Rebuild Scores Pre-DC (3/24/22) - EQ - 524 / TU - 519 / EX - 495

Current Scores - EQ - 687 / TU - 663/ EX - 677

SDFCU Secured - $5000 / TD Bank - $5000 / Mercury - $5000 / Capital One Savor One- $5000 / Capital One QuickSiver - $4500 / Ally Master Card - $2800/ Walmart Mastercard - $2250

Andrews FCU SSL $1500
Message 25 of 35
Revelate
Moderator Emeritus

Re: How high is possible with old serious derogs?


@masscredit wrote:

That's pretty much been my plan. I only have 3 years until the big one ($14K) reaches the SOL. Next one is the year after and then the small one reaches the SOL in '21.

 

So if I understand this correctly the options are -

 

The liens will fall off when they reach the SOL 10 years after the assessment date. If that doesn't happen then I can dispute them as obsolete or try from an EE.

 

The liens can be deleted if I set up a payment plan under their Fresh Start Program (http://www.irs.gov/uac/Newsroom/IRS-Fresh-Start-Program-Helps-Taxpayers-Who-Owe-the-IRS/). 

 

Final option is pay the liens. Something that I've thought about doing with the small one (about $400.00 with interest) after the other two reach the SOL. I think the final question that I have for the tax lien puzzle (for now) is when do the liens fall off credit reports after they are paid? 


Federal?  You just file the standard form and get them airstruck with the "benefit to taxpayer" checkbox.  I've seriously never heard of anyone's being denied for it.

 

Get the NFTL - Withdrawl as a result of your form, dispute them on your credit reports and attach the withdrawal notice, and poof!

 




        
Message 26 of 35
NRB525
Super Contributor

Re: How high is possible with old serious derogs?


@Stylez wrote:

I got my FICO 8 score from here. My TU and Ex FICO 8 scores I get from my Discover card and my Chase Slate card. I got my Mortgage score on here a few months ago and it was 723. I get a bankcard score from my Citi card, that score is 778(out of 900). I think what helps me is that my credit profile dates back to 2000. I also have 45 accounts. So although I have some major derogs, I have a perfect payment history on a bunch of accounts. I also have between 0 and 3 inquiries on all my credit reports, and I haven't had late payment in over 4 years. My utilization is also ranges from 1-3%. So if you have major dergos, they better be old, you need to have plenty of accounts with perfect payment history, and you have to be almost perfect in every other area.


I'm interested in what your Slate Dashboard says. Those 45 accounts, what is the breakdown as to type; CC Revolver, Charge, Store, Auto, Mortgage, LOC, Term loans?

On my Slate dashboard, it shows 379 payments in the last two years, 383 as of July 2-years, and that seems to align with the number of credit cards and mortgage/second mortgage payments during that time. All my CC have a balance, nearly all months.

 

For your Slate dashboard, how does that count of payments and payments due in the last two years align with the number of accounts you have? Do all those CC have balances and thus payments due, or is there a skip of those if a CC stays SD for a while?

 

Slate Payment History.JPG

High Bal Jan 2009 $116k on $146k limits 80% Util.
Oct 2014 $46k on $127k 36% util EQ 722 TU 727 EX 727
April 2018 $18k on $344k 5% util EQ 806 TU 810 EX 812
Jan 2019 $7.6k on $360k EQ 832 TU 839 EX 831
March 2021 $33k on $312k EQ 796 TU 798 EX 801
May 2021 Paid all Installments and Mortgages, one new Mortgage EQ 761 TY 774 EX 777
April 2022 EQ=811 TU=807 EX=805 - TU VS 3.0 765
Message 27 of 35
jamie123
Valued Contributor

Re: How high is possible with old serious derogs?

I had 1 tax lien on each report and all my scores were within 10 points of each other. The tax lien fell off my EX report leaving me with a spotlessly clean EX file. My EX mortgage score shot up 104 points from 687 to 791!


Starting Score: EQ 653 6/21/12
Current Score: EQ 817 3/10/20 - EX 820 3/13/20 - TU 825 3/03/20
Message 28 of 35
masscredit
Valued Contributor

Re: How high is possible with old serious derogs?


@Revelate wrote:

@masscredit wrote:

That's pretty much been my plan. I only have 3 years until the big one ($14K) reaches the SOL. Next one is the year after and then the small one reaches the SOL in '21.

 

So if I understand this correctly the options are -

 

The liens will fall off when they reach the SOL 10 years after the assessment date. If that doesn't happen then I can dispute them as obsolete or try from an EE.

 

The liens can be deleted if I set up a payment plan under their Fresh Start Program (http://www.irs.gov/uac/Newsroom/IRS-Fresh-Start-Program-Helps-Taxpayers-Who-Owe-the-IRS/). 

 

Final option is pay the liens. Something that I've thought about doing with the small one (about $400.00 with interest) after the other two reach the SOL. I think the final question that I have for the tax lien puzzle (for now) is when do the liens fall off credit reports after they are paid? 


Federal?  You just file the standard form and get them airstruck with the "benefit to taxpayer" checkbox.  I've seriously never heard of anyone's being denied for it.

 

Get the NFTL - Withdrawl as a result of your form, dispute them on your credit reports and attach the withdrawal notice, and poof!

 


Yes. I just have Federal tax liens now.  You wrote something a few posts back that I took as the liens would stay on the reports even if they were paid. That's why I wondered how long they would be on there - "Paying your tax lien sadly doesn't help your score period if it remains now on the report as released / paid much like collections under FICO 8 and earlier."

 

I think all of my 08 scores will gets into the very low 700s with the 3 liens and BK. I still have a few years until I have clean reports then see what happens when I'm moved into a different bucket. 

Pre-Credit Rebuild Scores Pre-DC (3/24/22) - EQ - 524 / TU - 519 / EX - 495

Current Scores - EQ - 687 / TU - 663/ EX - 677

SDFCU Secured - $5000 / TD Bank - $5000 / Mercury - $5000 / Capital One Savor One- $5000 / Capital One QuickSiver - $4500 / Ally Master Card - $2800/ Walmart Mastercard - $2250

Andrews FCU SSL $1500
Message 29 of 35
mmmlive1999
Frequent Contributor

Re: How high is possible with old serious derogs?


@Anonymous wrote:

@mmmlive1999 wrote:

I have 2 tax liens from 2008 and 2009 that are paid. They only show up on Equifax, but even with util under 9% I can't get that score over 694.

This is with no other baddies and AAOA at 8 yrs. YMMVSmiley Wink


Are you referring to your FICO 8 scores or your EQ 04 score?

 

Mortgage scores don't like tax liens! FICO 8 seems a little more forgiving.

 

How many cards do you have reporting a balance?

 

Do you have any installment loans?

 

Do you have a mortgage?


My report on 8/1/2015  shows all versions of Equifax are between 693 and 708 ( but i was talking about my mtg score)

I do not have a mortgage yet 

6 installment loans

1 card reporting.

 

Equifax is dead in the water until I pay off those student loans...


Starting Score: 6/6/12: TU 585/EQ 472/ EX 561
Current Score: All 800's
Cap1 QS - $17k, Chase Southwest- $25k, Discover IT - $50k
Message 30 of 35
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