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How much penalized for only two cc?

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driftless
Valued Contributor

How much penalized for only two cc?

Over dinner last night the subject of the number of cc came up, how much penalized are you with the FICO system are if you have only 2 major cc's? Assume otherwise good credit, PIF, limits over 10 K.
CSR | Amex Platinum | EDP | QS (2)
Amex Blue Business Plus
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Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: How much penalized for only two cc?

That's a great question.  In theory one could get an extremely high score with only two credit cards (assuming a few installment loans).  One can imagine a guy named Bob, who has two credit cards opened 25 years ago, a largely paid off mortgage from 20 years ago, a closed car loan, and an open car loan.  There's probably many people like that.  Bob could attain an 840 (or thereabouts) any time he wanted by paying one card to $0 and the other to a small balance.

 

Thus, one could argue that a person isn't suffering a "penalty" in the FICO models for having only two cards -- at least not in the way one suffers a penalty for an inquiry, or a late, or a higher CC utilization, etc.

 

So why have more than two cards?  There's a lot of reasons.

 

The biggest reason is this: just because it is possible to get an 840 after 25 years with two cards, most people like to get higher scores faster than that.  And there is no question that having a few extra cards (e.g. four) makes that far easier to do. 

 

      (a) It gives your profile greater thickness (more accounts).  And since credit cards can be kept open at no cost to you, the extra cards become very old extra accounts.  Age helps with scoring.  Increased thickness helps your score if your profile has a small number of accounts, but more importantly it makes it more stable, less easily affected by "penalty" factors like adding new accounts for example.

 

      (b) The FICO model likes looking at all your open accounts and counting how many of them have a zero balance.  When you have exactly two cards, the best you can get is 50% of your open cards showing a $0 balance.  When you have (say) five credit cards, you can quickly create a profile (any time you like) where almost all of your open accounts have a $0 balance -- just pay all your cards to $0 except one.

 

There are other reasons too.  Let's go back to our hypothetical friend Bob.  It's nice that he has two old credit cards.  But what happens if one of those cards gets cancelled?  That could happen for all kinds of reasons, notably because the issuer goes out of business.  Now he's suddenly got only ONE card.  His whole profile is riding on that one card.  Much better to have a few extra.

 

There are so many reasons to have extra cards it is hard to list them all.  Better might be for someone nervous about having five cards to describe what makes him uncomfortable about that.  It's almost certain that whatever he's worried about can be protected against very easily via techniques like autopay, alerts if a card's balance goes over X dollars, etc.

Message 2 of 5
driftless
Valued Contributor

Re: How much penalized for only two cc?

Thanks. I personally am limiting the number of my cards to four. It is a family member who only has two. My parents and my in-laws both only had one card during their lives. I keep hearing that you need three to max FICO but I am hoping for a little more detail in that statement.
CSR | Amex Platinum | EDP | QS (2)
Amex Blue Business Plus
Message 3 of 5
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: How much penalized for only two cc?

Three gives a strong advantage over two for the reasons I said.  Those are really important reasons and need to be carefully understood by anyone with 1 or 2 cards.  So I would make sure the person understands the ones I gave already to start with.

 

But in addition, there has been a less definable yet anecdotally confirmed advantage for having three cards.  Aside from the scoring factors I mentioned earlier (e.g. number of zeroes on your open accounts), there seems to be a general but significant advantage to having three cards over two.  FICO just seems to like it better. (4, 5, 6, cards etc. are also fine.)

 

I am not surprised that the models might work that way.  Maybe this analogy will help.  If you are applying for a position at a company, or for admission to a grad school program, they will likely ask for recomendations.  If you can only find one person to attest to your great qualities, that's nice but also a little worrisome.  Two would be a lot better -- but still if you can only find two colleagues or professors, that's also a bit of a concern.  Three recomendations is often the number an admissions or HR office settles on.  Once you are able to supply three really good ones, 4, 5, 6 etc. would be more like overkill and they don't require those.

 

Perhaps FICO works a bit that way.  When a person has only one card, even if he's had it a long time, it's like only having one person who can attest to your great qualities (i.e. your ability to handle revolving credit).  Having two different cards is a lot better.  It shows you can manage two different cards, make payments, keep track of the charges.  But still, that's only two.  Three cards with a perfect track record would be significantly better still.  Here you are are having three different ways you could have screwed up (lates, getting your balances way too high, etc.) -- and yet you are still showing you can handle those perfectly.  Once you get beyond three, it's possible or even likely that FICO stops giving you a big advantage for a new card (though of course all new cards still affect the standard scoring factors).

 

I hope that helps.  The bottom line is that there has been reported a significant advantage in the long term to having three cards over two.  The evidence for this is anecdotal and what I might call "tribal lore."  I give some guesses of my own for why FICO would work that way.

 

A final note: getting a third card is not ALWAYS the right thing to do.  For example, if a person is preparing for a home purchase in the next six months, then getting a third card is probably the wrong thing to do, since it violates the stronger rule of avoiding opening new accounts (especially cards) in the run up to an important loan.  Another reason that opening a third card would be wrong is if it would be a source of stress, anxiety, or worse still financial mismanagement for that person.

 

Message 4 of 5
takeshi74
Senior Contributor

Re: How much penalized for only two cc?


@driftless wrote:
I keep hearing that you need three to max FICO but I am hoping for a little more detail in that statement.

There's a lot of advice about maxing FICO scoring but scores aren't always a top priority in all cases and one's overall financial situation really takes priority over score.  In other words, there are those that choose to do everthing possible to max scores but that's not the best approach for everyone.  As stated above, one can certainly get higher scores with less than the 3+ recommended cards but it just might take longer and require other factors to be stronger.

 

Scoring impact isn't quite so straightforward as "-X points for Y cards" (or "X points for Y" in general).  It's really all about how the various factors add up for a given credit profile and the impact of a given factor can vary depending on the shape of the credit profile.  We really can't tell you the impact in terms of number of points and it's not just about number of cards but all of the standard factors.  We do look at aggregated anecdotal evidence but that approach has its pitfalls and even doing so we don't have all the specifics of the different FICO models nailed down.

 

If a person is concerned with score then the person should review his/her reports and see if there are bigger factors that can be addressed first IMO.  I'm not the best example for your sort of question but consider the "1 balance at 10% or less" advice.  I don't bother with it because even with the majority of my 12 cards reporting balances my FICO 8's are above 800.  If I was looking to eke out more points and there were not bigger factors I could address I'd consider it.

 


@driftless wrote:
Assume otherwise good credit, PIF, limits over 10 K.

"Good credit" covers a wide range of credit profiles that can see varying impact from a given factor such as "X cards".  PIF doesn't really matter as far as FICO scoring models are concerned.  Limits are not what matter.  It's revolving utilization which falls under Amounts Owed.

http://www.myfico.com/crediteducation/whatsinyourscore.aspx

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