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Informal Poll: What's your Fico 4 vs. Fico 8 point diff?

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CreditDunce
Valued Contributor

Re: Informal Poll: What's your Fico 4 vs. Fico 8 point diff?


@Calidreaming wrote:

Creditdunce, based on your I went ahead and got all three of my credit reports.  Turns out that the reports from all three CRAs were reflecting the repo.  However, TU was the only one that was not reporting the $41 medical collection.  I was really surprised by this.  I had been assuming that that collection was not really hurting my score and was afraid that the reason my TU was so much higher was that it was not reporting the repo.  I'm really curious as to what my score was before the repo and collection.  

 

I am very encouraged by this new info.  I haven't really been pushing that hard to get the collection removed because it didn't make a difference, but now I'm hoping that getting it removed will be what gets my middle score to 680 and beyond faster and so that I'm able to qualify for a decent conventional mortgage rate.  


I am glad to hear you discovered the main cause of the difference in your scores.   The good news is that FICO 09 ignores nuisance (<$100) and/or paid collections.  Of course, it may be a few years before FICO 09 is widely used.  It may even be much longer before mortgages use FICO 09.

 

You may already be familiar with Experien's policy about pulling updated credit reports as often as you like.  However, if not, be sure to write down the credit report number.  Each time you pull up a report it will have the most up to date information.  It is very useful when you want to see what is happening with your credit report.  CreditKarma is almost as good for pulling weekly free TU credit reports.  Quizzle is also useful for pulling a free EQ credit report every 6 months.

 

Good luck with getting the medical collection removed and any future mortgage apps.

Message 21 of 28
HiLine
Blogger

Re: Informal Poll: What's your Fico 4 vs. Fico 8 point diff?


@HiLine wrote:

Are we doing FICO 08 minus FICO 04?


Mine has been anything between 47 and 52.


Strangely, not even a year later, my difference has become -1. My FICO 04 is higher than my FICO 08, based on Equifax. How the table has turned ...

Message 22 of 28
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Informal Poll: What's your Fico 4 vs. Fico 8 point diff?

For people who tend to have high FICO 04 scores, there's one key reason that their 08 scores would be higher still -- at least for Equifax and TransUnion.  And that is, in the old 04 model, the highest one could score, even in theory, was less than 850.  For example TransUnion's FICO 04 had a maximum score of 839.  The Equifax 04 ceiling was 818.

 

Thus, for example, if you are getting an Equifax 04 score of 810, that is stunningly high -- within a few points of the maximum achievable.  So you would expect that the same score would translate into something in the 830s or higher for FICO 08.

 

Once you get down to FICO 04 scores in the mid-700s, the ceiling difference between the two models probably matters a lot less.  But it will matter hugely for people in the 800 club.

Message 23 of 28
vanillabean
Valued Contributor

Re: Informal Poll: What's your Fico 4 vs. Fico 8 point diff?


@Anonymous wrote:

For people who tend to have high FICO 04 scores, there's one key reason that their 08 scores would be higher still -- at least for Equifax and TransUnion.  And that is, in the old 04 model, the highest one could score, even in theory, was less than 850.  For example TransUnion's FICO 04 had a maximum score of 839.  The Equifax 04 ceiling was 818.

 

Thus, for example, if you are getting an Equifax 04 score of 810, that is stunningly high -- within a few points of the maximum achievable.  So you would expect that the same score would translate into something in the 830s or higher for FICO 08.

 

Once you get down to FICO 04 scores in the mid-700s, the ceiling difference between the two models probably matters a lot less.  But it will matter hugely for people in the 800 club.


 

Your assumption is that perfect scores imply perfect credit. It is not so!

 

Message 24 of 28
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Informal Poll: What's your Fico 4 vs. Fico 8 point diff?


@Anonymous-own-fico wrote:
Your assumption is that perfect scores imply perfect credit. It is not so!

 


Can you clarify a bit more?  I have no idea what you mean.

Message 25 of 28
vanillabean
Valued Contributor

Re: Informal Poll: What's your Fico 4 vs. Fico 8 point diff?

I'm saying you can't necessarily compare an EQ 04 of 818 to an EQ 08 of 850, as you may not need the same credit level for both; my impression is that your credit can be more flawed for the latter than for the former, which is to say FICO 08 is easier by the max. By the same token, you can't translate directly by scaling down or assume the two models are closer at some given score level. 04 and 08 are different beasts, up and down and all around!

 

Message 26 of 28
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Informal Poll: What's your Fico 4 vs. Fico 8 point diff?


@Anonymous-own-fico wrote:

I'm saying you can't necessarily compare an EQ 04 of 818 to an EQ 08 of 850, as you may not need the same credit level for both; my impression is that your credit can be more flawed for the latter than for the former, which is to say FICO 08 is easier by the max. By the same token, you can't translate directly by scaling down or assume the two models are closer at some given score level. 04 and 08 are different beasts, up and down and all around!

 


Well, let's see: suppose you are right in your guess that FICO 08 is easier than FICO 04 (you suggest that a perfect 850 in 08 might be easier to obtain than a perfect score in Equifax FICO 04).  If so, then that is all the more reason that IF a person has scored extremely high using the "harder" scoring system, then it is very likely that he'd be scoring near the top of the easier system.  It's like having the same exam graded by two different teachers, one who's a bit more of a "harder grader."  If you get a perfect score with the harder grader, then a reasonable guess is that the other easier grader will give you a perfect or near perfect score.

 

The original post was soliciting examples of scoring differences between 08 and 04, and fairly quickly the discussion became that plus reasons WHY people might see the differences.  My contributution was to focus on a narrow class of people: namely those who scored extremely high in 04, and who wondered why their 08 was higher still.  I was simply observing that the scale (for those ultra high scorers) was part of that explanation.  As a matter of fact, it is a necessary part of the explanation.  If you had a person who scored within a few points of "perfect" for EQ 04 and also within a few points of perfect for EQ 08 (by hypothesis -- and surely there are such people) then necessarily his 08 score would have to be about 30 points higher than his 04 score.  Because of the scaling difference.  Any discussion of differences that fails to mention that there a scoring range difference would be incomplete, and I was just trying to help out in that respect.

 

My guess is that the two algorithms are pretty equivalent for people who score ultrahigh -- that scoring within a few points of perfect for 04 likely implies the same kind of result for 08 (within a few points of perfect).  The differences in the algorthms probably become more pronounced for people as they score further from ultra-high.  The one exception that occurs to me would be a person who scored ultrahigh in 04 partly through adding ultra-old AU accounts that were not in anyway linked to him by family or marriage -- such a person might have those AU accounts completely ignored by 08. 

 

 

 

 

Message 27 of 28
vanillabean
Valued Contributor

Re: Informal Poll: What's your Fico 4 vs. Fico 8 point diff?

I see what you're saying. I just don't subscribe to the scaling thing as much as you do.

 

Message 28 of 28
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