Inside Baseball, why does gardening work?

[jamie123]

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@Anonymous wrote:

764/768 is pretty amazing though -- I assume you don't see a lot of denials at that point.

My dirty scorecard is public record based, which I assume is worse than 120D lates but who knows.  I also have an open collection but that's with a utility and I am 99.999% certain they will PFD once it's all approved from the higher ups.

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It is not discussed here much but a tax lien is the worst of the worst of derogatories. I know, I had two each on EQ and TU and one on EX. They are very difficult to have removed. Heck, it took me and a paid tax attorney 18 months to get them paid and reporting properly. It was the most frustrating thing I've ever done! Mine were State tax liens and most States don't have specific procedures spelled out as to how to pay them and get them reported to the CRAs correctly. That's why I needed an attorney.

I don't know how much each lien is worth in points because once they were reported as paid (Didn't move the scores.) I bought a house, car and added 3 credit cards in a short period of time. The liens then fell off at the end of this past July because of the new reporting requirements that the CRAs must use by law. They didn't have all the necessary information so they removed them. So at that point I had 5 new accounts that were less than 1 year old and I was using 2 of the new credit card's 0% offers and running a very high balance on both of them. (Still am.)

From what I have seen on these forums and my past history I would venture to guess that 1 tax lien can be worth as much as 100 points. Really. My scores right now are around 700 because of the new accounts and high UTI. I fully expect that once all these accounts turn 1 year old this February and I pay my CCs back into AZEO territory that my scores will rebound into the 800s.

When I still had the tax liens reporting paid on my reports the highest I could get my scores was 740.

A word to the wise: Don't ever, ever, ever mess with the Government and have a tax lien put on your reports!

I feel your pain bro!

[Anonymous]

My $1000 state tax lien was filed in 2010 as a joint lien with myself and my long ago ex-wife who has $3 to her name supposedly.

I've spent about 3 years going back and forth with the State over explaining the difference between a "release" which won't take it off credit reports and a "withdrawal" which will.  I've even given them court papers from other liens showing them that they DO offer withdrawals (even for people with $250,000 liens) and not just releases but the nincompoops don't get it sometimes.

I've explained that I have the money, will pay up front with a cashier's check, but not unless they will withdraw it.  Even the tax judge has agreed to a withdrawal but then the paperwork says "agrees to release".  It's unnerving.

My liens fell off EX naturally due to the recent CRA changes.  EQ removed with a simple dispute.  TU refuses to remove it.  If TU would remove it, I would just take the train to the state office and pay it with a cashier's check but nope.

Every 90 days I show up in tax court (sometimes over the phone, once from a Bahamas island, lol) and ask again for them to withdraw on payment, and then 2 months later I get paperwork stating "we will issue a release on full payment by certified funds".

For a state that is already bankrupt, you'd think they want $1000, but they instead like being bureaucrats.

It'll fall off my credit reports in 2030 for sure though!  /s

Also note: I've talked to 12 tax attorneys in 5 years about this and NONE of them will take my case on because it's too low of a value.

I have another case in tax court over a $10,000 tax bill for $90 in missed sales tax payments from 2015 -- $90 in missed taxes, $9910 in fines and fees and interest, lol.  Not joking.  I go to that one every 90 days, sweetest judge in the world but the state's tax lawyer is either an imbecile or was born missing 93% of their brain.  They won't accept an offer in compromise of $5000 because it's below the $15,000 minimum for that.  I don't want it to go to lien status so I just refile my own paperwork based on other cases I found -- one guy refiled for close to 17 years with different objections and I just copy-paste that into my objections and let them simmer.

Eventually I'll move out of this gdforsaken state and cut ties entirely.

[jamie123]

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@Anonymous wrote:

My $1000 state tax lien was filed in 2010 as a joint lien with myself and my long ago ex-wife who has $3 to her name supposedly.

I've spent about 3 years going back and forth with the State over explaining the difference between a "release" which won't take it off credit reports and a "withdrawal" which will.  I've even given them court papers from other liens showing them that they DO offer withdrawals (even for people with $250,000 liens) and not just releases but the nincompoops don't get it sometimes.

I've explained that I have the money, will pay up front with a cashier's check, but not unless they will withdraw it.  Even the tax judge has agreed to a withdrawal but then the paperwork says "agrees to release".  It's unnerving.

My liens fell off EX naturally due to the recent CRA changes.  EQ removed with a simple dispute.  TU refuses to remove it.  If TU would remove it, I would just take the train to the state office and pay it with a cashier's check but nope.

Every 90 days I show up in tax court (sometimes over the phone, once from a Bahamas island, lol) and ask again for them to withdraw on payment, and then 2 months later I get paperwork stating "we will issue a release on full payment by certified funds".

For a state that is already bankrupt, you'd think they want $1000, but they instead like being bureaucrats.

It'll fall off my credit reports in 2030 for sure though!  /s

Also note: I've talked to 12 tax attorneys in 5 years about this and NONE of them will take my case on because it's too low of a value.

I have another case in tax court over a $10,000 tax bill for $90 in missed sales tax payments from 2015 -- $90 in missed taxes, $9910 in fines and fees and interest, lol.  Not joking.  I go to that one every 90 days, sweetest judge in the world but the state's tax lawyer is either an imbecile or was born missing 93% of their brain.  They won't accept an offer in compromise of $5000 because it's below the $15,000 minimum for that.  I don't want it to go to lien status so I just refile my own paperwork based on other cases I found -- one guy refiled for close to 17 years with different objections and I just copy-paste that into my objections and let them simmer.

Eventually I'll move out of this gdforsaken state and cut ties entirely.

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Yeah, it is so ridiculous and bizarre I don't ever bring it up in conversation. Most people would think you are making it up! Can you believe we actually employ these imbeciles! What a waste!

Yeah, I paid a pretty penny for my tax attorney. By the hour. Not fun at all.

I moved to Florida where we don't have State or City income taxes. Yay! (Thanks goes out to all you wonderful visitors to the Great State of FloridaDisney that pay our taxes!)

The biggest drawback to having an unpaid tax lien is that getting a mortgage is a definite no go. You can get auto loans, credit cards and installment loans but a lender will shut you down for a mortgage if you have a tax lien. Once you do buy a house to live in as your primary residence in Florida the property is pretty well protected from liens because of strict homestead exemptions.

I really do think that collection agencies, bar associations and lenders are in bed with the State tax authorities. They know exactly what they are doing by not offering you a withdrawal. Perhaps it is because you are representing yourself and didn't hire an attorney? They might be a little more lenient if you showed up in court with one of their bar buddies. (Pun most definitely intended!) It might not cost you much if you had a court date and had an attorney give the state tax lawyer a call to negotiate for you beforehand. I would highly suggest calling a few attorneys and discussing the situation with them. Make sure that you spell out that you have the money but want a withdrawal and explain how the negotiations have gone in the past.

[jamie123]

Okay...Back to the regular scheduled programming!

Gardening works by aging all your accounts and allowing hard pulls to drop off and/or have more distance from your last credit apps to your new credit apps. Some lenders will deny you or at least give you small starting CLs if you last apped for new credit less than 6 months ago. You should space out your credit moves at least 6 months and a year is better.

You need to think of building your credit as a marathon. But what does the end of the marathon look like you ask? You will have 5 to 8 high quality credit cards that you can keep open and have them grow with you for life. Once you have these cards and your UTI is kept in check you will have scores in excess of 760 easily.

You need to get 3 credit cards as soon as possible. Hopefully one of these will be a high quality card so as you age this will be your oldest card. Getting your first 3 cards will knock down your scores enough so that you won't be able to qualify for a high quality card for 6 months or probably more like one year. (Garden time.) Your scores will climb back up if you garden for a year.

After the year is over, app for 2 more high quality cards. (Garden time.) Your scores will climb back and may even be higher after a year.

App for 2 more high quality cards. (Garden time.) Garden for a year.

You are now 3 years into building your credit and you may have other credit that you've picked up along the way like an auto loan or installment loan.

It is decision time...

You now should have 7 credit cards and you can now do nothing if you want. Your scores will keep climbing month over month as long as you keep UTI in check, pay all your bills on time and don't apply for any more credit.

You could also choose to pick up a card that you've had your eye on and knock your scores down for a bit but build an even stronger profile.

Keep in mind that once you enter the garden for a long time. I would put this at 2 years, you will come out the other side with rock solid very high credit scores. (Just hope that life doesn't get in the way at some point!)

Once your original credit cards are 5 years old, you will never have to worry about your credit scores again as long as you continue good credit behavior. (Pay your bills on time and keep UTI low.)

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:

764/768 is pretty amazing though -- I assume you don't see a lot of denials at that point.

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I don't app very often, but I've never been denied for anything.  Fortunately for me, my TU score seems to be pulled the least.  Only twice has it been pulled on 8 apps in the last 2 years... One for Chase and the other a Lowe's card (Synchrony).  At the time of the Lowe's app I was at 732 I believe and I had the 764 score when Chase pulled me.  All of my other pulls have been on EX/EQ which run 60-70 points higher since they're clean reports.

My dirty score is pretty bullet proof, though.  It doesn't ever drop from inquiries or new accounts.  When I did my last spree my EX and EQ scores dropped 15 points or so and my dirty TU score stayed right at 764 and then 3 months after the spree ticked up to 768.  Since I know AoYA doesn't matter and my AoOA is already in the top tier, the only other age factor is AAoA which currently is at 7 years and max return is at 7 years and 8 months (I'll hit that in April 2018).  It's possible I could see a couple of points when that happens I suppose, but I doubt it.  I think the ony constraint to my score is the major delinquency, so the question is when it hits the 5 year mark and 6 year mark if my score ticks up a few points again each time.  It seemed like the 4 points I got happened right about the time the 120 day passed the 4 year mark, +/- a month or so.

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:

My $1000 state tax lien was filed in 2010 as a joint lien with myself and my long ago ex-wife who has $3 to her name supposedly.

I've spent about 3 years going back and forth with the State over explaining the difference between a "release" which won't take it off credit reports and a "withdrawal" which will.  I've even given them court papers from other liens showing them that they DO offer withdrawals (even for people with $250,000 liens) and not just releases but the nincompoops don't get it sometimes.

I've explained that I have the money, will pay up front with a cashier's check, but not unless they will withdraw it.  Even the tax judge has agreed to a withdrawal but then the paperwork says "agrees to release".  It's unnerving.

My liens fell off EX naturally due to the recent CRA changes.  EQ removed with a simple dispute.  TU refuses to remove it.  If TU would remove it, I would just take the train to the state office and pay it with a cashier's check but nope.

Every 90 days I show up in tax court (sometimes over the phone, once from a Bahamas island, lol) and ask again for them to withdraw on payment, and then 2 months later I get paperwork stating "we will issue a release on full payment by certified funds".

For a state that is already bankrupt, you'd think they want $1000, but they instead like being bureaucrats.

It'll fall off my credit reports in 2030 for sure though!  /s

Also note: I've talked to 12 tax attorneys in 5 years about this and NONE of them will take my case on because it's too low of a value.

I have another case in tax court over a $10,000 tax bill for $90 in missed sales tax payments from 2015 -- $90 in missed taxes, $9910 in fines and fees and interest, lol.  Not joking.  I go to that one every 90 days, sweetest judge in the world but the state's tax lawyer is either an imbecile or was born missing 93% of their brain.  They won't accept an offer in compromise of $5000 because it's below the $15,000 minimum for that.  I don't want it to go to lien status so I just refile my own paperwork based on other cases I found -- one guy refiled for close to 17 years with different objections and I just copy-paste that into my objections and let them simmer.

Eventually I'll move out of this gdforsaken state and cut ties entirely.

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I obviously have no idea of what your unique case with (I assume?) the IRS is but in my experience, they will work closely with you on payment arrangements, (sometimes) even reductions if you PIF, etc., just like any other bill collector.  It's the "kinder, gentler IRS".  I'd seriously suggest you kick your attorney outta the equation (unless you signed a NDA or Non Compete??? - PLEASE say NO!?) and contact the IRS directly and start negotiating with them directly.  YOU DON"T NEED A TAX ATTORNEY UNLESS YOU'VE INTENTIALLY COMMITTED A CRIME.  I'm going back a few years and things might have changed, but hey - if you've done nothing nefarious on purpose, ditch the 'bulance chaser... you don't need him/her.

[Anonymous]

IRS has never been a problem. Ever. Always friendly.

This is state related. They are knuckledragging neanderthals hired for political reasons across the board.

There's no "negotiating*", there's just threats mostly. Last time we negotiated I moved one entire income stream out of state to make good on a threat. Next time I'll move another. Less money these inept bureaucrats get their dirty hands on.

The tax judge is really nice, tho. She is fine with me calling the states attorney an inept knuckledragging bureaucrat neanderthal on the record, lol. My November court date has be planning to bring bananas to the court room.

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:
IRS has never been a problem. Ever. Always friendly.

This is state related. They are knuckledragging neanderthals hired for political reasons across the board.

There's no "negotiating*", there's just threats mostly. Last time we negotiated I moved one entire income stream out of state to make good on a threat. Next time I'll move another. Less money these inept bureaucrats get their dirty hands on.

The tax judge is really nice, tho. She is fine with me calling the states attorney an inept knuckledragging bureaucrat neanderthal on the record, lol. My November court date has be planning to bring bananas to the court room.

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Haha!!!  Yup, state and fed are apples and oranges where I live (Bama) too.  Your last sentence made my day!  Best of luck!