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Oops... all cards reporting $0.00

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jamie123
Valued Contributor

Re: Oops... all cards reporting $0.00


@NRB525 wrote:

Has anyone experimented with having more than one card report a small amount? Say 3 cards each reporting 3%?


Yes, I personally lose 3 to 4 points for every card more than 1 that reports a balance. The balance can be very small to lose those points. I once bought a $2.99 app for my phone using a card that should have reported a $0 balance.right before the due date and forgot that I bought it. I lost 4 points for the $2.99 reported balance.

 

As soon as I pay the cards down to $0 I get the 3 to 4 points back. There isn't any memory to utilization.


Starting Score: EQ 653 6/21/12
Current Score: EQ 817 3/10/20 - EX 820 3/13/20 - TU 825 3/03/20
Message 21 of 41
NRB525
Super Contributor

Re: Oops... all cards reporting $0.00


@jamie123 wrote:

@NRB525 wrote:

Has anyone experimented with having more than one card report a small amount? Say 3 cards each reporting 3%?


Yes, I personally lose 3 to 4 points for every card more than 1 that reports a balance. The balance can be very small to lose those points. I once bought a $2.99 app for my phone using a card that should have reported a $0 balance.right before the due date and forgot that I bought it. I lost 4 points for the $2.99 reported balance.

 

As soon as I pay the cards down to $0 I get the 3 to 4 points back. There isn't any memory to utilization.


And if the cards consistently report a small balance for months, so any noise is worked out, is it the same net reduction in score? A permanent reduction of 4 points?

I'm curious because it seems strange that "number of cards reporting" would outweigh "overall utilization" as a measurement factor of risk, which is what FICO is measuring.

 

So to state my preferred experiment: Three cards get used to report the same overall $ total and overall Utilization of the total credit line, as if "all cards zero, one reporting", evenly distributed to the three cards so one card isn't a relatively high utilization (or not noticeably so). My theory is that once allowed to stabilize, after at least three months, this should be the same score as (or not statistically different from) only one card reporting the same balance.

 

Of course, the built in flaw to my theory is that those three or four months while the experiment is running are three more months of good payment history, which alone is going to have some positive impact on the score. Ideally, then, the score at the end of the three months with three cards would be slightly higher than the starting score with one card.

High Bal Jan 2009 $116k on $146k limits 80% Util.
Oct 2014 $46k on $127k 36% util EQ 722 TU 727 EX 727
April 2018 $18k on $344k 5% util EQ 806 TU 810 EX 812
Jan 2019 $7.6k on $360k EQ 832 TU 839 EX 831
March 2021 $33k on $312k EQ 796 TU 798 EX 801
May 2021 Paid all Installments and Mortgages, one new Mortgage EQ 761 TY 774 EX 777
April 2022 EQ=811 TU=807 EX=805 - TU VS 3.0 765
Message 22 of 41
jamie123
Valued Contributor

Re: Oops... all cards reporting $0.00


@NRB525 wrote:

@jamie123 wrote:

@NRB525 wrote:

Has anyone experimented with having more than one card report a small amount? Say 3 cards each reporting 3%?


Yes, I personally lose 3 to 4 points for every card more than 1 that reports a balance. The balance can be very small to lose those points. I once bought a $2.99 app for my phone using a card that should have reported a $0 balance.right before the due date and forgot that I bought it. I lost 4 points for the $2.99 reported balance.

 

As soon as I pay the cards down to $0 I get the 3 to 4 points back. There isn't any memory to utilization.


And if the cards consistently report a small balance for months, so any noise is worked out, is it the same net reduction in score? A permanent reduction of 4 points?

I'm curious because it seems strange that "number of cards reporting" would outweigh "overall utilization" as a measurement factor of risk, which is what FICO is measuring.

 

So to state my preferred experiment: Three cards get used to report the same overall $ total and overall Utilization of the total credit line, as if "all cards zero, one reporting", evenly distributed to the three cards so one card isn't a relatively high utilization (or not noticeably so). My theory is that once allowed to stabilize, after at least three months, this should be the same score as (or not statistically different from) only one card reporting the same balance.

 

Of course, the built in flaw to my theory is that those three or four months while the experiment is running are three more months of good payment history, which alone is going to have some positive impact on the score. Ideally, then, the score at the end of the three months with three cards would be slightly higher than the starting score with one card.


There are actually two separate FICO calculations in play here:

 

1. Overall Utilization - It has been tested on this forum that for the highest scores that you need to keep this less than 10%.

 

2. Number of Cards Reporting - It has been tested on this forum and you WILL lose points if more than 1 card reports a balance. The amount of point loss tends to be from 2 to 4 points for most people. It will not "balance out over time". The point loss will remain until the extra cards start reporting a $0 balance again and at that point your scores will gain back the 2 to 4 points for each card more than 1 that you bring to a $0 balance.

 

Now, keep in mind, the only time you need to do this is if you want to find out just how high you can get your scores or if you plan on applying for NEW credit in the next month. I personally let all my cards report a balance most months. I feel that it builds a better realationship with the lenders by allowing them to report a balance every month. I will however do the 1 card at less than 10%, all other cards $0 right before apping for new credit. And yes, my scores climb every time I bring all those cards back to $0.

 

You can try it out for yourself and I'm confident that you will see similiar results.


Starting Score: EQ 653 6/21/12
Current Score: EQ 817 3/10/20 - EX 820 3/13/20 - TU 825 3/03/20
Message 23 of 41
NRB525
Super Contributor

Re: Oops... all cards reporting $0.00

Well, others can try it. I can't because I have 13 cards at the moment, many not anywhere near zeros Smiley Tongue

 

The 2-4 point reduction seems a bit like noise to me. So while I understand the frequent statement "all cards at zero except 1" it should probably come with a disclaimer that 2 reporting is going to be very close also. Some may get the impression that the benefit of the "1 only" is more than that. My opinion.

 

Cheers!

High Bal Jan 2009 $116k on $146k limits 80% Util.
Oct 2014 $46k on $127k 36% util EQ 722 TU 727 EX 727
April 2018 $18k on $344k 5% util EQ 806 TU 810 EX 812
Jan 2019 $7.6k on $360k EQ 832 TU 839 EX 831
March 2021 $33k on $312k EQ 796 TU 798 EX 801
May 2021 Paid all Installments and Mortgages, one new Mortgage EQ 761 TY 774 EX 777
April 2022 EQ=811 TU=807 EX=805 - TU VS 3.0 765
Message 24 of 41
masscredit
Valued Contributor

Re: Oops... all cards reporting $0.00

I might try letting all of my accounts report a balance one month to see what happens. Both Cap 1s and both Barclay cards have the same closing date. The others are spread throughout the month. I'd probably gradually watch them go down then gradually watch them go up. It would be like walking down then up a flight of stairs. 

 

One thing that I've been wondering is... I usually just have one card reporting. What if I let a bunch of cards report for a few months then go back to one. Would having multiple cards reporting become a norm for me so I'd gain more points when I went back to one or is it just wishful thinking?

 

I'd like to try that for a few months and I know some people say that scores don't matter unless you need to apply for credit. The few times that I had to apply for credit where unplanned. They just happened so I was glad that I had my scores maximized.

 

Pre-Credit Rebuild Scores Pre-DC (3/24/22) - EQ - 524 / TU - 519 / EX - 495

Current Scores - EQ - 687 / TU - 663/ EX - 677

TD Bank - $5000 / Mercury - $5000 / Capital One Savor One- $5000 / SDFCU Secured - $4990 / Capital One QuickSiver - $4500 / Ally Master Card - $2800/ Walmart Mastercard - $2250

Andrews FCU SSL $1500
Message 25 of 41
NRB525
Super Contributor

Re: Oops... all cards reporting $0.00


@masscredit wrote:

I might try letting all of my accounts report a balance one month to see what happens. Both Cap 1s and both Barclay cards have the same closing date. The others are spread throughout the month. I'd probably gradually watch them go down then gradually watch them go up. It would be like walking down then up a flight of stairs. 

 

One thing that I've been wondering is... I usually just have one card reporting. What if I let a bunch of cards report for a few months then go back to one. Would having multiple cards reporting become a norm for me so I'd gain more points when I went back to one or is it just wishful thinking?

 

I'd like to try that for a few months and I know some people say that scores don't matter unless you need to apply for credit. The few times that I had to apply for credit where unplanned. They just happened so I was glad that I had my scores maximized.

 


That is the point I was trying to make: My theory is that the multiple cards become the new normal. So you can be the guinea... I mean the leader and show the world how this works! Smiley Happy

 

Seriously, I think the difference, after allowing for stabilization, is going to be minor ( and thus IMO not worth the heartburn that people ascribe to it ).

High Bal Jan 2009 $116k on $146k limits 80% Util.
Oct 2014 $46k on $127k 36% util EQ 722 TU 727 EX 727
April 2018 $18k on $344k 5% util EQ 806 TU 810 EX 812
Jan 2019 $7.6k on $360k EQ 832 TU 839 EX 831
March 2021 $33k on $312k EQ 796 TU 798 EX 801
May 2021 Paid all Installments and Mortgages, one new Mortgage EQ 761 TY 774 EX 777
April 2022 EQ=811 TU=807 EX=805 - TU VS 3.0 765
Message 26 of 41
jamie123
Valued Contributor

Re: Oops... all cards reporting $0.00

Think about this from the lender's perspective. Would you rather lend money to a person that has 10 cards with 1 card reporting $500 or a person that has 10 cards and 5 of them are reporting $100.

 

The person that has 1 card reporting a balance has a slight advantage and slightly higher scores because of it. He would only have 1 monthly minimum payment to make versus 5 monthly minimum payments the other person has to make. The person with 1 card reporting a balance has a lower risk of default. It will never even out. It will never become the new normal. It is all about math and statistics and based on scientific fact. You will however build a better relationship with your lenders if you allow multiple cards to report each month.

 

These points only really come into play when you are making a major purchase like an auto or house. An extra ten points on your score might save you hundreds of dollars in interest on an auto loan but could save you thousands of dollars in interest on a home loan.


Starting Score: EQ 653 6/21/12
Current Score: EQ 817 3/10/20 - EX 820 3/13/20 - TU 825 3/03/20
Message 27 of 41
ZiggstergetsaREFI
Valued Member

Re: Oops... all cards reporting $0.00

Hi Jamie123 - would you please advise me as well? My husband and I are also about to apply for a mortgage. We are working on tweaking every point we can out of my husband's FICO scores. He only has ONE CC with a low CL. How should we use your formula if there is only one card? I HAVE noticed that his score seems to go up when I don't pay it all off. Thanks for your advice!

Oh, also - would it make sense to get a prepaid cc? Would this help his score? We don't want to have a hard pull at this point by applying for a regular cc.

Message 28 of 41
jamie123
Valued Contributor

Re: Oops... all cards reporting $0.00


@ZiggstergetsaREFI wrote:

Hi Jamie123 - would you please advise me as well? My husband and I are also about to apply for a mortgage. We are working on tweaking every point we can out of my husband's FICO scores. He only has ONE CC with a low CL. How should we use your formula if there is only one card? I HAVE noticed that his score seems to go up when I don't pay it all off. Thanks for your advice!

Oh, also - would it make sense to get a prepaid cc? Would this help his score? We don't want to have a hard pull at this point by applying for a regular cc.


I need a bit more information about your husband's credit report to give you a comprehensive plan to raise his scores. As far as having only one credit card, you need to have it report a very small balance every month like $10. You will probably need to make 2 payments per month to achieve this. Make 1 payment at least 3 days before the due date to take the balance to $10. Do not use the card again until 5 days AFTER the due date. This will give the lender a few days to report the $10 balance. After the 5 days is up you can go back and pay the balance to $0 and start using it again.

 

A prepaid credit card does not report to the credit bureaus and if it did it would look bad on your report. You don't want super sub-prime items on your report.

 

What are his scores?

 

What else does he have on his reports? Auto loans? Student loans?

 

Does he have any baddies on his reports? What are they? How old are they?

 

When do you plan on applying for a home loan?

 

 


Starting Score: EQ 653 6/21/12
Current Score: EQ 817 3/10/20 - EX 820 3/13/20 - TU 825 3/03/20
Message 29 of 41
NRB525
Super Contributor

Re: Oops... all cards reporting $0.00


@jamie123 wrote:

@ZiggstergetsaREFI wrote:

Hi Jamie123 - would you please advise me as well? My husband and I are also about to apply for a mortgage. We are working on tweaking every point we can out of my husband's FICO scores. He only has ONE CC with a low CL. How should we use your formula if there is only one card? I HAVE noticed that his score seems to go up when I don't pay it all off. Thanks for your advice!

Oh, also - would it make sense to get a prepaid cc? Would this help his score? We don't want to have a hard pull at this point by applying for a regular cc.


I need a bit more information about your husband's credit report to give you a comprehensive plan to raise his scores. As far as having only one credit card, you need to have it report a very small balance every month like $10. You will probably need to make 2 payments per month to achieve this. Make 1 payment at least 3 days before the due date to take the balance to $10. Do not use the card again until 5 days AFTER the due date. This will give the lender a few days to report the $10 balance. After the 5 days is up you can go back and pay the balance to $0 and start using it again.

 

A prepaid credit card does not report to the credit bureaus and if it did it would look bad on your report. You don't want super sub-prime items on your report.

 

What are his scores?

 

What else does he have on his reports? Auto loans? Student loans?

 

Does he have any baddies on his reports? What are they? How old are they?

 

When do you plan on applying for a home loan?

 

 


The last four points are the most important to understand. The perspective of the entire current credit file is important to have available before any recommendations.

 

Agreed, prepaid is not a credit card. A secured card is a credit card and can be an excellent rebuilding step to expand available "credit" that is reported. You can have multiple secured CC.

 

The specific strategy of $10 to report may or may not have an impact on FICO depending on the individual situation. If one is reaching a limit on the upside of what the FICO score could be given that individuals optimized (no negatives) history, then it may add some few points to the score. If rebuilding, the monthly act of making timely payments is more important, IMO. In the act of using the card, if one only has one unsecured card, the short term strategy can include trying to get the CL increased, because that can have a positive effect on score. The CLI most often happens when the relationship with that particular lender is optimized, through use of the card, testing the limit of the CL now and then without going over, and then paying down to a true zero balance, always paying on time. There are many opinions on this Smiley Happy

 

Which credit card and limit does DH have?

High Bal Jan 2009 $116k on $146k limits 80% Util.
Oct 2014 $46k on $127k 36% util EQ 722 TU 727 EX 727
April 2018 $18k on $344k 5% util EQ 806 TU 810 EX 812
Jan 2019 $7.6k on $360k EQ 832 TU 839 EX 831
March 2021 $33k on $312k EQ 796 TU 798 EX 801
May 2021 Paid all Installments and Mortgages, one new Mortgage EQ 761 TY 774 EX 777
April 2022 EQ=811 TU=807 EX=805 - TU VS 3.0 765
Message 30 of 41
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