Opinions on Tiered Lenders, Bankcard vs Store Card, and FICO Scoring

[elim]

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@RMN wrote:

Last post on this.  I have to say two responses on this thread to my postings where disappointing.  It was disappointing not because it was a personal affront, it was disappointing in that people sometimes cant just open a window to the possibility things arent what they thought.  Translation:  FICO wins.  One requested a "cite" (sic) to support my post.  Really.  Do you think FICO or any financial institution will just give it up.  Google tier 1/2/3/4 credit yourself and see what happens.  Now, do you think the institutions themselves are not classified as such, also, by FICO itself.  The other one calling me nuts for what was FICO terminology as a "real bank". This response was a head shaker in its hostility. Cant help rigid thinking. All I can say to this to all you card users that have Cap One and such.  Step back and ask yourself why Cap One and the such gave you credit at the time and your own bank didnt.  The prior statement is to people that it APPLIES to.  

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  I got nothin' here but i did try

[RMN]

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@AutoBot wrote:

Not meaning to get off topic here, but what is a good unsecured credit card to start with that has the potential for steady CLIs whe you have a FICO in the low 600s?

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You are not off topic.  Read my posts in this thread on Capital One and you will get how they operate.  If you cant get a bank card, do Capital One. They are a cinch to qualify for because basically they throw 300 credit limit cards out like candy. Insist on a promo, as they might not offer you one. And they are a cinch at increasing credit limits vs the institutional banks (I would say real banks, but I will get slammed) Because I dont know your situation, you could be declined.  If you are, go to a store card, but be aware that these are considered tier 4, and can adversely affect your credit.  But it adjusts over time. At that point, Cap One will come after you, if they can find you, and will offer you a nice 300 credit limit promo card with 0 APR. Because they are not an "institutional bank" (wink to the people who read my posts on what FICO considers "real banks"), most cards will have a 500 increase waiting after 6 months, and so on, depending on debt ratio (Mod Cut-Too close to advocating something that is not allowed on this board please refrain from this in the future).  These cards are throwaway cards to them, so dont sweat the application policy. Institutional banks dont operate this way, so use Cap One to your advantage.  Now, manipulating thei increase schedule is easy.  Pocket your checkbook and debit card and put everything on this card, then pay it off multiply times a month.  For example, you have maxed it out 10 days in, dont wait, pay, then do it again as many times as you can.  Watch that increase come in 3 months.  You can pay by phone and the payment will post next day if done by 8 EST. Keep doing it and the increases will keep coming every three months till it hits your debt ratio.  Dont forget what I said about income in this post.  Second cards are easy to get too. If you dont do Cap One, most of what I say applies to most other cards. Good luck!

[RMN]

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@elim wrote:

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@RMN wrote:

Last post on this.  I have to say two responses on this thread to my postings where disappointing.  It was disappointing not because it was a personal affront, it was disappointing in that people sometimes cant just open a window to the possibility things arent what they thought.  Translation:  FICO wins.  One requested a "cite" (sic) to support my post.  Really.  Do you think FICO or any financial institution will just give it up.  Google tier 1/2/3/4 credit yourself and see what happens.  Now, do you think the institutions themselves are not classified as such, also, by FICO itself.  The other one calling me nuts for what was FICO terminology as a "real bank". This response was a head shaker in its hostility. Cant help rigid thinking. All I can say to this to all you card users that have Cap One and such.  Step back and ask yourself why Cap One and the such gave you credit at the time and your own bank didnt.  The prior statement is to people that it APPLIES to.  

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  I got nothin' here but i did try

  That was an abbreviation.   Google tier 1, or tier 2, tier 3, etc. It will force the field.  For example, you put in tier 1, read down the menu, "tier 1 customers", "tier 1 credit", etc. This is to show you that we are classified as such.  Now if you think FICO will reveal it also classifies the companies that report to them the same way, it will not.  Only insiders know. You have to use common sense at this point.  Your own life experience should tell you a store card is not the same as a credit card, and a non-institutional bank credit card is not the same as bank card. And why? Because they are on different tiers.

[AutoBot]

RMN,

Does all of what you said about Capital One still apply if you have 4 year old charge-off accounts with them?

[RMN]

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@Anonymous wrote:

"Google tier 1/2/3/4 credit "

You're conflating lending tiers with scoring.

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A reread on my post will show that I was referring to googling those tiers, to see what happens.  The reader should have seen that we are classified in tiers.  Then the following sentence stated that FICO also implements this structure with the companies that report to it. Thank you for pointing out what might have been confusing in the post. Just to note, why these internal FICO rankings are important. The tier structure determines how impactful the particular trade line will be to our FICO score, but more importantly, is the impact it has to the underwriters of the coveted tier 1 institutions. An example, say you have a Cap One card with an 1800 limit (read my posts on this, it doesnt sit well with some). Now go to Wells Fargo. Apply for their card. They dont give a rats ass about that trade line, because that company is not tier 1. If you dont have tier 1 credit, you will be "hard declined", which means based on your credit, regardless of other factors, you are out. However, if you sit in tier 2 credit, and they see the "indicators" of a credit worthy individual, they will let you in.  Those "indicators" will get you there eventually. Like a car loan or a mortgage, even if they are with independent entities.

[RMN]

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@AutoBot wrote:

RMN,

Does all of what you said about Capital One still apply if you have 4 year old charge-off accounts with them?

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Ouch. In this case, an elephant never forgets! All institutions have their own idiosyncratic underwriting policies, so I do not know.  Tier 1 institutions are pretty much uniform, but this company is not tier 1. Most companies, under tier 1, dont care if you have old chargeoffs from other companies, but do very much care if you have one with them. Many will give you a chance, if you pay the outstanding balance. That is if you can! I dont mean if you have the money. There are many situations where the company can not take payment on a chargeoff. This can work to your advantage, maybe. Since Cap One reads credit differently than a tier 1 institution, you might be able to fly under the radar.  All I can say is try. Cap One has the ability to soft hit your credit. If you can get them to do that, you have nothing to lose. This is why the internal FICO rankings are so important and why I have been squawking about it.  If you know the rules of the game, you can play to win. 

[Anonymous]

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@AutoBot wrote:

RMN,

Does all of what you said about Capital One still apply if you have 4 year old charge-off accounts with them?

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Cap One has a list of disqualifying statements in their 'rates and disclosures', one of which is 'you have a Capital One account charged off within the last twelve months'. Once the charge off is over a year old, they will issue new accounts. I would suggest settling it if possible, if its reporting a balance.

[Anonymous]

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@RMN wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

"Google tier 1/2/3/4 credit "

You're conflating lending tiers with scoring.

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A reread on my post will show that I was referring to googling those tiers, to see what happens.  The reader should have seen that we are classified in tiers.  Then the following sentence stated that FICO also implements this structure with the companies that report to it. Thank you for pointing out what might have been confusing in the post. Just to note, why these internal FICO rankings are important. The tier structure determines how impactful the particular trade line will be to our FICO score, but more importantly, is the impact it has to the underwriters of the coveted tier 1 institutions. An example, say you have a Cap One card with an 1800 limit (read my posts on this, it doesnt sit well with some). Now go to Wells Fargo. Apply for their card. They dont give a rats ass about that trade line, because that company is not tier 1. If you dont have tier 1 credit, you will be "hard declined", which means based on your credit, regardless of other factors, you are out. However, if you sit in tier 2 credit, and they see the "indicators" of a credit worthy individual, they will let you in.  Those "indicators" will get you there eventually. Like a car loan or a mortgage, even if they are with independent entities.

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Again, simply cite some reliable sources for this claim, otherwise its just theory on your part. The facts is that many people here have gotten cards from those "tier one" lenders by building tradelines with Cap One first.

I have my own theories on certain aspects of FICO scoring that goes against the general consensus here too, but when I speak of it, I preface it with "its my opinion that..." or something similar, I don't try to pass if off as absolute fact.

[RMN]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@RMN wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

"Google tier 1/2/3/4 credit "

You're conflating lending tiers with scoring.

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A reread on my post will show that I was referring to googling those tiers, to see what happens.  The reader should have seen that we are classified in tiers.  Then the following sentence stated that FICO also implements this structure with the companies that report to it. Thank you for pointing out what might have been confusing in the post. Just to note, why these internal FICO rankings are important. The tier structure determines how impactful the particular trade line will be to our FICO score, but more importantly, is the impact it has to the underwriters of the coveted tier 1 institutions. An example, say you have a Cap One card with an 1800 limit (read my posts on this, it doesnt sit well with some). Now go to Wells Fargo. Apply for their card. They dont give a rats ass about that trade line, because that company is not tier 1. If you dont have tier 1 credit, you will be "hard declined", which means based on your credit, regardless of other factors, you are out. However, if you sit in tier 2 credit, and they see the "indicators" of a credit worthy individual, they will let you in.  Those "indicators" will get you there eventually. Like a car loan or a mortgage, even if they are with independent entities.

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Again, simply cite some reliable sources for this claim, otherwise its just theory on your part. The facts is that many people here have gotten cards from those "tier one" lenders by building tradelines with Cap One first.

I have my own theories on certain aspects of FICO scoring that goes against the general consensus here too, but when I speak of it, I preface it with "its my opinion that..." or something similar, I don't try to pass if off as absolute fact.

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Seriously, Norman, this is becoming frustrating. No where did I say this is my opinion or its a theory, or I would have stipulated that. I made it perfectly clear it is insider information. Done. Believe it or not, I don't care at this point.  That statement that "many people have gotten cards from tier 1 lenders building tradelines with Cap One" is just as frustrating. Again, I said try for a tier 1 card over it, even secured, before doing a Cap One card. No where did I say dont get a Cap One if that is all you qualify for. On top of that, your statement I quoted is inherently fallacious in its reasoning. The individuals got a tier 1 card because they became credit worthy, not because they got a Cap One card. I politely said earlier in this thread I am done posting on this subject because, honestly, mainly your attitude. I am responding, now, out of courtesy.

[Hokies2379]

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@RMN wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@RMN wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

"Google tier 1/2/3/4 credit "

You're conflating lending tiers with scoring.

---

A reread on my post will show that I was referring to googling those tiers, to see what happens.  The reader should have seen that we are classified in tiers.  Then the following sentence stated that FICO also implements this structure with the companies that report to it. Thank you for pointing out what might have been confusing in the post. Just to note, why these internal FICO rankings are important. The tier structure determines how impactful the particular trade line will be to our FICO score, but more importantly, is the impact it has to the underwriters of the coveted tier 1 institutions. An example, say you have a Cap One card with an 1800 limit (read my posts on this, it doesnt sit well with some). Now go to Wells Fargo. Apply for their card. They dont give a rats ass about that trade line, because that company is not tier 1. If you dont have tier 1 credit, you will be "hard declined", which means based on your credit, regardless of other factors, you are out. However, if you sit in tier 2 credit, and they see the "indicators" of a credit worthy individual, they will let you in.  Those "indicators" will get you there eventually. Like a car loan or a mortgage, even if they are with independent entities.

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Again, simply cite some reliable sources for this claim, otherwise its just theory on your part. The facts is that many people here have gotten cards from those "tier one" lenders by building tradelines with Cap One first.

I have my own theories on certain aspects of FICO scoring that goes against the general consensus here too, but when I speak of it, I preface it with "its my opinion that..." or something similar, I don't try to pass if off as absolute fact.

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Seriously, Norman, this is becoming frustrating. No where did I say this is my opinion or its a theory, or I would have stipulated that. I made it perfectly clear it is insider information. Done. Believe it or not, I don't care at this point.  That statement that "many people have gotten cards from tier 1 lenders building tradelines with Cap One" is just as frustrating. Again, I said try for a tier 1 card over it, even secured, before doing a Cap One card. No where did I say dont get a Cap One if that is all you qualify for. On top of that, your statement I quoted is inherently fallacious in its reasoning. The individuals got a tier 1 card because they became credit worthy, not because they got a Cap One card. I politely said earlier in this thread I am done posting on this subject because, honestly, mainly your attitude. I am responding, now, out of courtesy.

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But, it is.