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Moderator Emeritus
cheddar
Posts: 6,794
Registered: ‎09-29-2007
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Re: Questions about FICO 08



RobertEG wrote:
Cheez, if CITI advertisea their product as being the end-all for credit monitoring, and then disclaim that any of their software can detect "real" problems in credit reports, then this is tantamount to corp. double talk at the least, and fraud at the worst.  These companies are deluging us with scores, promises, monitoring services, and misinformation.  Thus, the purpose of my prior post on this thread.  What is the real deal?   Who should I pay my $$ to, and what do I get?
 


Agreed!  The scores sold by most credit monitoring services are useless.
 
What is the real deal, you ask?  FICO scores, of course.
 
You can get your EQ FICO score at MyFico and also directly from EQ.
 
You can get your TU FICO score at MyFico and also at transunioncs.com (note the "cs" at the end...this is not the regular TU website).
 
You can get your EX FICO score at MyFico and nowhere else.
 
You can get your TU or EX bankcard-enhanced FICO score on your online account screen if you have a WaMu card.  (You can get both TU and EX if you have both a WaMu Visa and a WaMu MC.)
 
All the scores you get from MyFico are classic FICO scores.  Other than the bankcard FICO score provided by WaMu, enhanced FICO scores are not available to the public.
 
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App free since 7/11/08.
TU 744 / EX 710 / EQ 694 (Starting to slip. :smileysurprised: )
Mega Contributor
RobertEG
Posts: 17,701
Registered: ‎03-19-2007
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Re: Questions about FICO 08

[ Edited ]
THANK YOU for that comprehensive and initelligent response, sh9730!  The best I have seen on here in a long, long time!
That was exactly the kind of knowlegeable real world info I was seeking, and not just advertising double talk!
I realize from your comments that FICO and FAKO are not matter and anti-matter.  The real or fakeness is in the minds of the creditor who orders the scores!  I think that Advantage scores even advertise that they have seven broad scoring categories, as opposed to the six advertised by FICO, but the additional category that they advertise of account balances is still included under FICO util, so it is just semantical in advertisiing, and tells us nothing about the merits of  the actual algorithms that score each.
I will, in deference to reality, henceforth no longer use the term FAKO. The more correct terminology, based on your astute comments, is not that they are fake scores, but rather that they have not yet risen to the level of being the standard for most creditor decisions.
But as  long as our creditors, and FairIsacc says over 90%, use FICO, then as Cheddar has said, that is what I will rely upon, and cast the others into the byte-bucket!
I am not looking for what may be, I am am looking for what is!
Thanks again for inciteful posts and clarifying posts by all!
 


Message Edited by RobertEG on 03-07-2008 09:10 PM
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RobertEG
Posts: 17,701
Registered: ‎03-19-2007
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Re: Questions about FICO 08

Thanks, Cheddar.  Hey, I really hate to keep beating a dead horse, but let me make sure I understand!    This is really, to me Credit Scoring 101 at its heart!!!
So, if I order, for example, a TU score from transunioncs.com, it is run through the FairIsaac scoring algorithm, based on what is reported to them by TU, but if I order it from transunion.com (without the "cs"), I get a score that is run through the Advantage algorithm, and not the FaiIsaac FICO algorithm?
Is that bottom line?
Regular Contributor
sh9730
Posts: 150
Registered: ‎01-30-2008
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Re: Questions about FICO 08

Robert,
 
EXACTLY (to your post above)!!!
Moderator Emeritus
cheddar
Posts: 6,794
Registered: ‎09-29-2007
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Re: Questions about FICO 08



RobertEG wrote:
Thanks, Cheddar.  Hey, I really hate to keep beating a dead horse, but let me make sure I understand!    This is really, to me Credit Scoring 101 at its heart!!!
So, if I order, for example, a TU score from transunioncs.com, it is run through the FairIsaac scoring algorithm, based on what is reported to them by TU, but if I order it from transunion.com (without the "cs"), I get a score that is run through the Advantage algorithm, and not the FaiIsaac FICO algorithm?
Is that bottom line?



You got it!  Except:  I'm not sure if the score you buy from transunion.com (without the "cs") is a Vantage score or not.  It might just be a different non-FICO and non-Vantage score entirely.
 
TU provides non-FICO and non-Vantage scores through their TrueCredit monitoring service.  To be fair regarding the "FAKO" nomenclature, it is usually used to refer to these types of scores offered by services like TrueCredit and the other monitoring service you mentioned earlier.  Yes, the bureaus have developed the Vantage score to compete with the FICO, but the scores provided through these services are neither, an they are FAKOs in the truest sense of the word:  they are used in real life by exactly ZERO lenders.
 
----------------------------
App free since 7/11/08.
TU 744 / EX 710 / EQ 694 (Starting to slip. :smileysurprised: )
Mega Contributor
RobertEG
Posts: 17,701
Registered: ‎03-19-2007
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Re: Questions about FICO 08

[ Edited ]
WOW!  Thanks again!  So you have added further clarity to my growing clarity!  We have FICO scores, generated by FairIsaac, as the longer industry standard, and you have clearly specified where we can get them.  Then we have, as sh9730 has said, the growing competing Vantage scores developed by the three CRAs as an alternate scoring method, but not the industry standard. However, neither may be what you actually get from a third party vendor.  So... ROFL!  what we may also be buying is a score that is neither FICO or Vantage computer generated, and thus maybe have been generated from the back seat of a van parked in front of the nearest 7/11, using a laptop computer from tarot cards!
How could any consumer who does not read this forum ever possibly understand that the score they buy from any commercial site may not be what any lendor willl use.  And to know in advance what they willl use, and hold them to it.
Fico scores have a better chance of being what a lender willl use.  I hate to disparage car salesmen, but with all the possibe credit scores they can conjur up and print out from their computers, and show a customer..."this is your published score!", many lendors will LOVE all this ambiguity, and few willl be knowledgeable enough to see through it!  Sure, the non-FICO and non_Vantage scores may be used by zero lendors in making credit grant decsisions, but I do not put it beyond some lendors to use them in trying to convince us that your credit, and thus their loan terms, are below what you have earned and deserve.
I will put my FICO in my pocket any day!
 


Message Edited by RobertEG on 03-07-2008 10:07 PM
Moderator Emeritus
cheddar
Posts: 6,794
Registered: ‎09-29-2007
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Re: Questions about FICO 08



RobertEG wrote:
So... ROFL!  what we may also be buying is a score that is neither FICO or Vantage computer generated, and thus maybe have been generated from the back seat of a van parked in front of the nearest 7/11, using a laptop computer from tarot cards!


Bingo!
 
This is why the best advice on most credit monitoring services is to use them exclusively for the reports, while ignoring the scores completely, along with the "advice to improve your credit score" that tends to come with them.  The advice to help your useless score is often counterproductive to your FICO.
 


RobertEG wrote:
How could any consumer who does not read this forum ever possibly understand that the score they buy from any commercial site may not be what any lendor willl use.


That is the million dollar question.  Many, many consumers are being duped into purchasing fake scores and taking them as the gospel truth.
 
To throw another wrench into the works, Experian has developed their own score, as well, called the PLUS score, which can be applied to reports from all three bureaus.
 
So we have FICO scores, developed by Fair Isaac and used by 90% of lenders.
We also have the Vantage score, developed by the bureaus, and used by a small number of lenders.
We also have the PLUS score developed by Experian.
Finally, there are numerous FAKO scores that mean absolutely nothing to anybody but the people selling them.
 
----------------------------
App free since 7/11/08.
TU 744 / EX 710 / EQ 694 (Starting to slip. :smileysurprised: )
Mega Contributor
RobertEG
Posts: 17,701
Registered: ‎03-19-2007
0

Re: Questions about FICO 08

[ Edited ]
I will only close out my comments in this great thread by saying that I have been reading these forums for a year and a half now, and have learned so much, and gained 120 points in my score by listening to the advice that I have absorbed in here. But tonight brought me back to some basic questions that I have never understood, and finally threw out.  And they were answered, in spades!.  Day after day, I see posts... why is my TU, EX EQ score different?  Patient posts by the pros on here in response, asking them where they went to receive the scores, and trying to explain the different scoring methods, and even sources for those scores.  Yo comprendo, mi Amigos! 
I never fullly understood, prior to this thread tonight, the fuller picture.
You guys and gals are super!
Thanks!


Message Edited by RobertEG on 03-07-2008 11:20 PM

Message Edited by RobertEG on 03-07-2008 11:20 PM

Message Edited by RobertEG on 03-07-2008 11:21 PM
Established Member
Mn_Vikes
Posts: 30
Registered: ‎02-03-2008
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Re: Questions about FICO 08

This is the line that bugs me the most:

sh9730 wrote:
 
(By the way, lenders, collection agencies and others PAY to insert data into the CRA databases and also pay to extract it.  This is why sometimes items are not displayed on one CRA or another.)


Why is it we can dispute data that is on our CR but not dispute data that is missing?  Here is my guess

If all three CRA's had the same accurate information, we would only need one CRA

The only reason i can see for three CRA's is to generate confusion and increase cost to lenders and consumers buying whatever score they buy.

But why would a lender pay extra for confusing data?   I know, 

So they can confuse the consumer and justify higher rates.

Would Congress please stop spending time worrying if a baseball player used steriods and look into the lending practices that have caused such a mess.

Of course:

We consumers are just as much to blame.

 

2/03/08 - EQ: 781
3/0108 - EQ: 813
6/07/08 - EQ:810
Super Contributor
marty56
Posts: 5,679
Registered: ‎10-06-2007
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Re: Questions about FICO 08

I suspect most people here are happy that there is more then one CRA.  Many people have posted here and asked which CRA a particular CC uses.  While the reasons may vary, it comes down to the fact that one CRA might show a persons score or history being better and thus they are able to get what they want.
 
Whether it is missing data or a formula difference, many people here lare helped by this.  Myself included.
 
Yes it costs more for us to get all our info but the difference between a FICO score of say 722 and 756 when say 4 points are added to it could make a world of diffrence in a car loan or a CC or mortgage.
 
I never liked single point of failures. 
 
 
09/12/2013 FICO: EQ: 772 EX:813 TU:752

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