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Posts: 94
Registered: ‎08-02-2010
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Re: The many flavors of FICO:__Editions, versions, and variations

[ Edited ]

Hello tketch,

 

Many thanks for reporting that your lender used Equifax Beacon 96 (FICO 98).  

 

When I made the original post here, my research suggested that Equifax was no longer using this version, but it appears I was wrong.

 

I revised my post to say the following:

 

Equifax Beacon 96:  This version appears to be seldom used, but a poster reported it used on a mortgage application in 2014.

 

After Congress revised the credit laws a few years ago, lenders were required to report not only the credit score used in making a credit decision, but also the "real world" score range (which usually differs from FICO's officially stated range of 300 to 850).

 

Could you please let us know what score range was specified for your Equifax Beacon 96 score?

 

I would like to add it to my original post,  as I have done for some of the other FICO versions.

EQ-04 FICO__804__(from DCU)__inquiries = 0
EQ-08 FICO__826__(from MyFICO)__inquiries = 0
EX-98 FICO__837__(from PSECU)__inquiries = 0
EX-08 FICO__813__(from MyFICO)__inquiries = 0
TU-08 FICO__820__(from MyFICO)__inquiries = 0
Oldest account 36 yrs / Newest account 2 years / Average age 12 yrs / Total accounts 10 / Accounts reporting balance = 2 / Util = 3%
Valued Member
Posts: 26
Registered: ‎11-29-2013
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Re: The many flavors of FICO:__Editions, versions, and variations

So the range isn't really the range.... Interesting! 

 

Here are the ranges and models from the big 3, as shown in the a credit disclosure dated May 6, 2014.

 

     CRA                       Model                         Range

----------------          ------------------              ---------------  

EQUIFAX               BEACON 96                350-950

TRANSUNION     EMPERICA                  395-848    

EXPERIAN            FAIR ISAAC                 300-850

 

 

 

:

 

 

 

 

Valued Member
Posts: 26
Registered: ‎11-29-2013
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Re: The many flavors of FICO:__Editions, versions, and variations

Revelate,

 

re: What type of mortgage was this in particular and from what lender? 

 

The credit info was genereated as a result of refi  application through Discover Home Loans around May 2, 2014.  As far as I know this was a standard application in search of conventional 30 year rates and 10-1 ARMs to refinance a note now held by Wells Fargo. . 

zmm
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Posts: 3
Registered: ‎12-17-2013
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Re: The many flavors of FICO:__Editions, versions, and variations

Does anyknown know how fico 08 diffrenciates between a "real" au and piggybacking?

Do they do it based on shared adress, same last name, or some other method?

 

Alot of my credit is based on AU's for my wife's account.

I saw my score drop 40 points when switched to the 08 version.

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Posts: 16,496
Registered: ‎12-30-2011
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Re: The many flavors of FICO:__Editions, versions, and variations


zmm wrote:

Does anyknown know how fico 08 diffrenciates between a "real" au and piggybacking?

Do they do it based on shared adress, same last name, or some other method?

 

Alot of my credit is based on AU's for my wife's account.

I saw my score drop 40 points when switched to the 08 version.


No, and FICO ain't talking for obvious reasons.  I'm getting the impression that the anti-abuse code may not be tweaked precisely but I'd look at your and her report and go through line by line on the address and other information.  It could be some secondary database too for relationships (which we know has to exist somewhere).

Starting Score: EQ 5 561, TU 98 567, EX 2 599 (12/30/11)
Current Score: EQ 5 693, EX 2 719, EQ 8 732, TU 8 732, EX 8 728 (2/01/17)
Goal Score:    EQ 5 750, EX 2 750, EQ 8 800, TU 8 Blah, EX 8 800 (01/01/18)


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Posts: 94
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Re: The many flavors of FICO:__Editions, versions, and variations

[ Edited ]

 

tketch,

 

You said the ranges for your scores were reported as:

 

EQUIFAX               BEACON 96                350-950

TRANSUNION     EMPERICA                  395-848    

EXPERIAN            FAIR ISAAC                 300-850

 

Ever since lenders started reporting score ranges to consumers as a result of the new credit law, I have noticed lots of confusion and conflicting information regarding the score ranges reported by lenders.  

 

In some cases, the score ranges that lenders report to consumers are clearly wrong. For example, in one case a lender reported a score range for Experian that is actually used only by Transunion.  

 

In addition, some lenders still report the score range for "Classic" verisons of FICO as 300 to 850 because that is the range FICO uses when providing info to consumers. For public relations reasons and to avoid confusing consumers with lots of different score ranges, FICO always says the score range is 300 to 850. But as my original post explains, the "real world" score ranges are different.

 

 

Regarding Equifax:

 

 I did a Google search for:   Equifax 350 950

 

I found numerous references to Equifax Beacon 96 having a score range of 350 to 950.

 

But I find this very confusing.

 

FICO has consistently said that all "Classic" FICO versions go no higher than 850.  

 

As I say in my original post, "Industry Option" scores normally have a score range topping out at 900.

 

To my knowledge, the only FICO scores that go up to 950 are the NextGen versions. 

 

Take a look at the post on this board linked below:

 

http://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Understanding-FICO-Scoring/Which-of-the-49-FICO-scores-actually-matt...

 

It has a table showing 49 different FICO versions.

 

The table includes five different versions of Equifax Beacon 96

 

BEACON 96
BEACON 96 – Auto
BEACON 96 – Bankcard
BEACON 96 – Personal Finance
BEACON 96 – Installment

 

The first one listed above is presumably the "Classic" version that would have a range no higher than 850.

 

The other four are the "Industry Option" versions.

 

I initially thought your score with range of 350 to 950 might be a "Mortgage Enhanced" Industy Option version.

 

But according to the table, there is no Mortgage version of Beacon 96.

 

So I really have no explanation for the score range of 350 to 950 that you and other online sources have reported.

 

 

============================

 

Regarding Transunion:

 

I did a Google search for:   Transunion 395 848

 

I found online soures reporting that this score range is used for these FICO versions:

 

Transunion FICO 98

Transunion FICO 04 Mortgage Enhanced 

Transunion NextGen Precision

Experian

 

This is an example of the confusion I mentioned above.   395 to 848 is NOT the correct range for all four of the versions above.

 

On a different site that has discussion forums about credit scores, the 395 to 848 score range is reported to be used for Transunion FICO 04 Mortgage Enhanced.

 

However, the table in the post on this board does not show a Transunion FICO 04 Mortgage version.

 

So once again, I have no good explanation for the score range of 395 to 848 you received.

 

 

 

============================

 

Regarding Experian:

 

You were told the score range is 300 to 850.

 

This is an example of a lender using FICO's "public relations" version of the score range rather than the actual, real world score range.

 

So it's not possible to tell which version of FICO was used for your score.

EQ-04 FICO__804__(from DCU)__inquiries = 0
EQ-08 FICO__826__(from MyFICO)__inquiries = 0
EX-98 FICO__837__(from PSECU)__inquiries = 0
EX-08 FICO__813__(from MyFICO)__inquiries = 0
TU-08 FICO__820__(from MyFICO)__inquiries = 0
Oldest account 36 yrs / Newest account 2 years / Average age 12 yrs / Total accounts 10 / Accounts reporting balance = 2 / Util = 3%
Moderator
Posts: 16,496
Registered: ‎12-30-2011
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Re: The many flavors of FICO:__Editions, versions, and variations

[ Edited ]

tketch wrote:

So the range isn't really the range.... Interesting! 

 

Here are the ranges and models from the big 3, as shown in the a credit disclosure dated May 6, 2014.

 

     CRA                       Model                         Range

----------------          ------------------              ---------------  

EQUIFAX               BEACON 96                350-950

TRANSUNION     EMPERICA                  395-848    

EXPERIAN            FAIR ISAAC                 300-850

 

 

 

:

 

 

 

 


Weird, that looks like an older standard TBH though I'm struggling to line up the score ranges with individual products: Beacon 96 and similar are old old old, going on 2 decades now.

 

Will simply state that's not normal for any conventional mortgage per the guidelines of the GSE's (they dictated EQ/TU '04 for a while now, which that disclosure ain't), but if and individual lender is either portfolioing their own mortgages, or selling them off to a different market than the GSE's, then it may follow different standards for underwriting.

 

Interesting regardless, thank you for sharing!

 

ETA: jello's GoogleFU is better than mine; however, it's intersting to note that Transunion does not market / disclose a FICO '04 Mortgage Enhanced score: that industry option was introduced in FICO '08.

 

It's probably not complete (as it looks like theoretical max than what's listed on the disclosures for score ranges) but it's better than what else we have from Transunion: http://www.transunion.com/docs/rev/business/financialservices/FS_ModelsOverview.pdf

Starting Score: EQ 5 561, TU 98 567, EX 2 599 (12/30/11)
Current Score: EQ 5 693, EX 2 719, EQ 8 732, TU 8 732, EX 8 728 (2/01/17)
Goal Score:    EQ 5 750, EX 2 750, EQ 8 800, TU 8 Blah, EX 8 800 (01/01/18)


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Posts: 483
Registered: ‎07-14-2014
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Re: The many flavors of FICO:__Editions, versions, and variations

Note that Pentagon Federal Credit Union (aka PenFed) has just started providing members their FICO NextGen score online.  Seems a curious choice, as per your document, NextGen seems to be generally unloved.  But there you have it.

 

Chris.

                                          

FICO's, FAKO's and other scores:

734 TransUnion New Account Model (via CapOne) 3/1/15
812 Credit Sesame (Experian) 3/1/15
769 Equifax FICO (via DCU) 2/27/15
813 Credit Karma (TransUnion) 2/26/15
819 Credit Karma (Equifax) 2/26/15
820 TransUnion FICO (via BarclayCard) 2/10/15
822 Equifax FICO (via Citibank) 1/27/15
790 Experian Plus score (via USBank) 1/24/15
773 Mint.com (Equifax) 12/2014
747 NextGen (via PenFed) 12/2/2014

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Posts: 16,496
Registered: ‎12-30-2011
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Re: The many flavors of FICO:__Editions, versions, and variations


cpaynter wrote:

Note that Pentagon Federal Credit Union (aka PenFed) has just started providing members their FICO NextGen score online.  Seems a curious choice, as per your document, NextGen seems to be generally unloved.  But there you have it.

 

Chris.


It's the score they use: under the FICO Open Access program, any lender purchasing scores on their customers may pass those scores to said customers.

 

Penfed's been on the Pinnacle score for who knows how long, and they're one of the exceptionally few places to do so: I don't know of any other place from people's anecdotal reports on this forum where that's the case.

 

End of the day though, the more lenders which start using this program the better off the consumer market will be, so even though I think knowing that score has little to virtually no value, fact is that *any* lender taking advantage of this is nothing short of fantastic.

Starting Score: EQ 5 561, TU 98 567, EX 2 599 (12/30/11)
Current Score: EQ 5 693, EX 2 719, EQ 8 732, TU 8 732, EX 8 728 (2/01/17)
Goal Score:    EQ 5 750, EX 2 750, EQ 8 800, TU 8 Blah, EX 8 800 (01/01/18)


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Re: The many flavors of FICO:__Editions, versions, and variations

Can't you get the Equifax 04 score from the Equifax website when you purchase an actual FICO score (not their version of FAKO)?

My Fico EQ: 749
My Fico TU: 754
My Fico EX: 753

Goal: 800

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