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Registered: ‎12-30-2011
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Re: The many flavors of FICO:__Editions, versions, and variations

[ Edited ]

A_Noob wrote:

Can't you get the Equifax 04 score from the Equifax website when you purchase an actual FICO score (not their version of FAKO)?


Yes, you can on their Score Power product.  

 

Did we misstate that somewhere in the thread / OP?

 

Edit: oops we did!  Thank you for pointing that out, fixed.

Starting Score: EQ 5 561, TU 98 567, EX 2 599 (12/30/11)
Current Score: EQ 5 693, EX 2 719, EQ 8 732, TU 8 732, EX 8 728 (2/01/17)
Goal Score:    EQ 5 750, EX 2 750, EQ 8 800, TU 8 Blah, EX 8 800 (01/01/18)


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Re: The many flavors of FICO:__Editions, versions, and variations

Revelate,

 

As the original poster, I want to thank you for helping to keep this post updated.

 

I also made a few changes today to make the post more clear.

 

I'm a member of PSECU credit union and was under the impression that the free Experian FICO we receive each month was the 04 model.  But it appears I was wrong, so thanks for making the appropriate change to the post.

 

 

EQ-04 FICO__804__(from DCU)__inquiries = 0
EQ-08 FICO__826__(from MyFICO)__inquiries = 0
EX-98 FICO__837__(from PSECU)__inquiries = 0
EX-08 FICO__813__(from MyFICO)__inquiries = 0
TU-08 FICO__820__(from MyFICO)__inquiries = 0
Oldest account 36 yrs / Newest account 2 years / Average age 12 yrs / Total accounts 10 / Accounts reporting balance = 2 / Util = 3%
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Re: The many flavors of FICO:__Editions, versions, and variations

You should also add that Penfed is now offering EQ NextGen to cardholders.

EX:694 TU:744 EQ:777
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Re: The many flavors of FICO:__Editions, versions, and variations

 

DaveSignal,

 

Thanks for the info about PenFed. 

 

I added this to the post for EQ NextGen:

 

Pentagon Federal Credit Union (PenFed) provides this score free to its credit card holders.

EQ-04 FICO__804__(from DCU)__inquiries = 0
EQ-08 FICO__826__(from MyFICO)__inquiries = 0
EX-98 FICO__837__(from PSECU)__inquiries = 0
EX-08 FICO__813__(from MyFICO)__inquiries = 0
TU-08 FICO__820__(from MyFICO)__inquiries = 0
Oldest account 36 yrs / Newest account 2 years / Average age 12 yrs / Total accounts 10 / Accounts reporting balance = 2 / Util = 3%
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Re: The many flavors of FICO:__Editions, versions, and variations


DaveSignal wrote:

You should also add that Penfed is now offering EQ NextGen to cardholders.


Do we know whether it's NextGen v1 or v2?  

 

Jello: no worries senor, it's an excellent resource and I thank you for doing the work to create it.

Starting Score: EQ 5 561, TU 98 567, EX 2 599 (12/30/11)
Current Score: EQ 5 693, EX 2 719, EQ 8 732, TU 8 732, EX 8 728 (2/01/17)
Goal Score:    EQ 5 750, EX 2 750, EQ 8 800, TU 8 Blah, EX 8 800 (01/01/18)


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Re: The many flavors of FICO:__Editions, versions, and variations


Revelate wrote:

DaveSignal wrote:

You should also add that Penfed is now offering EQ NextGen to cardholders.


Do we know whether it's NextGen v1 or v2?  

 


I don't think anyone knows much about it yet, it is a new Penfed feature this week.  I don't have a credit card with Penfed and don't plan on applying for one, but maybe some of the other members here who have the feature can figure it out.  I didn't know there were two versions, but, if the v2 is recent, I have a feeling that Penfed would be using the older one.

EX:694 TU:744 EQ:777
Amex ED $19.5k - BoA Travel Rewards $15k - CSP $5k - SDFCU EMV $15k - NFCU goRewards $20k - Barclays Arrival $6.5k
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Re: The many flavors of FICO:__Editions, versions, and variations


DaveSignal wrote:

 

You should also add that Penfed is now offering EQ NextGen to cardholders.


 

Haha, it's a mystery why they're doing it.

 

EQ 04 816 TU 04 818 EX 98 830
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Re: The many flavors of FICO:__Editions, versions, and variations

This is the most illuminating discussion on credit scores that I have read in a long time!  Many thanks to Jello77 for putting this together.

 

I have been thinking about this since I receive my three credit scores from a mortgage pre-approval process a week ago.  I had always followed the party line of telling people that FICO scores varied between 300 and 850.  So I was stunned when I read the fine print on my score sheet and saw that actually Equifax had a maximum of 818 compared with TransUnion (839) and Experian (850).

 

To recap the relevant data from Jello77's post:

 

--------------------------------------------------​--------------------------------------------------​-----------
FICO 04   (introduced about 2004)
--------------------------------------------------​--------------------------------------------------​-----------

 

FICO 04 is the standard used by most mortgage lenders. All three scores will normally be pulled and the middle score (not the average) will be used by the lender.

 

____Transunion
Real-world score range:   309 to 839 

 

____Equifax
Real-world score range:   334 to 818

 

____Experian
Real-world score range:   325 to 850

 

 

Here's my question.  Since FICO 04 is still the dominant standard (even in 2014), and since lenders in practice use the middle score, surely that would mean that historically mortgage decisions have been skewed in favor of Experian and TU data, with Equifax much of the time being ignored?  (At least for people with good credit.)

 

That's what I saw at least with my three credit scores.  I carefully reviewed the three reports and they are all three reporting the same accounts with the same date opened etc.  Nevertheless, my Experian score is highest, with my TransUnion score 1 point lower -- and then my Equifax score is 20 points lower than TU... i.e. exactly what you'd expect given that a perfect Experian score is 32 points higher than a perfect Equifax score.

 

My guess is that for people with low, average, or average-plus credit, the three scores are much closer together (assuming identical data in the reports).  But the closer you get to having VERY good credit, the less it matters what your Equifax file says, since it is going to get dropped anyway.

 

That seems like a really odd thing for lenders to have been doing for the last decade, and yet I can't see why it wouldn't be true given the ranges.  It's a bit like a grad school saying that it was going to look at the grades in my three classes, and consider the middle one -- but doing so knowing that professor X never gave his best students any higher than a B+ whereas professors Y and Z gave out lots of A-pluses.  What's the point of acting like the three grades mean the same thing?

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Re: The many flavors of FICO:__Editions, versions, and variations


CreditGuyInDixie wrote:
Here's my question.  Since FICO 04 is still the dominant standard (even in 2014), and since lenders in practice use the middle score, surely that would mean that historically mortgage decisions have been skewed in favor of Experian and TU data, with Equifax much of the time being ignored?  (At least for people with good credit.)

 

That's what I saw at least with my three credit scores.  I carefully reviewed the three reports and they are all three reporting the same accounts with the same date opened etc.  Nevertheless, my Experian score is highest, with my TransUnion score 1 point lower -- and then my Equifax score is 20 points lower than TU... i.e. exactly what you'd expect given that a perfect Experian score is 32 points higher than a perfect Equifax score.

 

My guess is that for people with low, average, or average-plus credit, the three scores are much closer together (assuming identical data in the reports).  But the closer you get to having VERY good credit, the less it matters what your Equifax file says, since it is going to get dropped anyway.

 

That seems like a really odd thing for lenders to have been doing for the last decade, and yet I can't see why it wouldn't be true given the ranges.  It's a bit like a grad school saying that it was going to look at the grades in my three classes, and consider the middle one -- but doing so knowing that professor X never gave his best students any higher than a B+ whereas professors Y and Z gave out lots of A-pluses.  What's the point of acting like the three grades mean the same thing?


It is very common for there to be different data on different reports.   Many CC's only pull one CR for apps, thus INQs will only be one one report.  Data is mis-reported.  Or payment history is just missing.  For example, my last mortgage didn't start reporting until 1 year into the mortgage on EQ, but started the second month on EX.  And perhaps the biggest difference is how long closed accounts are kept on your report.  At least for me, EQ seems to drop my closed accounts faster than Ex.

 

What they are really trying to do is to make sure that one incorrect CR doesn't keep you from getting a mortgage.  Or more importanly from the bank's POV,  the reverse from happening.

 

PS.  For my last mortgage, my scores were 820 EX, 805 EQ, 78x Tu on my tri-merged report.   I couldn't tell from the merged CR report what was reporting on which CR, but I would lay odds that was the reason my Tu was so low.  In my case, EQ was the middle score.   If I were to apply for a mortgage today, EX would be my lowest because most of my credit apps have pulled Ex recently.

 

 

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Re: The many flavors of FICO:__Editions, versions, and variations

[ Edited ]

 

CreditGuyInDixie,

 

You wrote:

 

Since FICO 04 is still the dominant standard, and since lenders use the middle score, surely that would mean that historically mortgage decisions have been skewed in favor of Experian and TU data, with Equifax much of the time being ignored?  (At least for people with good credit.)

 

It's a bit like a grad school saying that it was going to look at the grades in my three classes, and consider the middle one -- but doing so knowing that professor X never gave his best students any higher than a B+ whereas professors Y and Z gave out lots of A-pluses.  What's the point of acting like the three grades mean the same thing?

 

 

You make a very good point that is rarely mentioned.  Since each credit agency uses a different FICO score range to "grade" loan applicants, a person's three credit score can vary significantly between the agencies even when all credit information is identical.  Therefore, arbitrarily using the middle score to make a loan decision could be regarded as mathematically illegitimate.

 

You also make another key point when you say:

 

My guess is that for people with low, average, or average-plus credit, the three scores are much closer together (assuming identical data in the reports).  But the closer you get to having VERY good credit, the less it matters what your Equifax file says, since it is going to get dropped anyway.

 

If lenders were asked to justify why they use a mathematically illegitimate method to make loan decisions,  I suspect they would might say this:

 

The differences in FICO score ranges have an effect on scores primarily at the very top end of the range (over 800).  People with such high scores will almost always get loan approval, so the range differences have little practical effect on them. For people with scores below 800, the range differences have only a minor effect on scores, and are very unlikely to have any practical effect on loan approvals.

 

 

 

 

 

EQ-04 FICO__804__(from DCU)__inquiries = 0
EQ-08 FICO__826__(from MyFICO)__inquiries = 0
EX-98 FICO__837__(from PSECU)__inquiries = 0
EX-08 FICO__813__(from MyFICO)__inquiries = 0
TU-08 FICO__820__(from MyFICO)__inquiries = 0
Oldest account 36 yrs / Newest account 2 years / Average age 12 yrs / Total accounts 10 / Accounts reporting balance = 2 / Util = 3%

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