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Senior Contributor
Posts: 6,379
Registered: ‎04-11-2016
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Re: Utilization up; 20-point loss


Thomas_Thumb wrote:

BBS -

 

Fico scoring of individual card utilization is based on card with the highest utilization. It does not look at how many or what % are above a specific level. Thus, the QTY of cards should not impact how the individual card is scored (although scorecard assignment may impact how much the factor is weighed - dirty vs clean or young file vs established file). Of course QTY of cards will be important in damping the balance of that card on aggregate utilization.

 

In SJ's case he has quite a few cards of varying degrees of age. I suspect age of the highest UT card may influence magnitude of score penalty. Also, impact of # cards reporting may vary by CRA. However, my take is SJ's before/after are based on no change in # cards reporting balances.

 

For example 85% UT on a card under 1 year age may cost 20 points compared to if that card reported 29% UT. Now if that card was 5 to 8 years old, impact of 85% UT is muted- say to 10 points.


TT, I get that, I was more referring to the percentage of cards with balances reported.  For example, if someone has only 2 cards and they have 1 card with a zero balance reported and the other is maxed out, they have 50% of cards reporting a balance which I would think would result in a greater scoring penalty than if that person had 3+ total cards with just the one card being maxed out.  That's what I was getting at.

Super Contributor
Posts: 6,169
Registered: ‎02-24-2015
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Re: Utilization up; 20-point loss

[ Edited ]

And the slaughter continues.

 

Dropped another 24 points in EX FICO 8 when

-one personal line of credit went from zero to 52%

-one personal line of credit went from 13% to 47%

-as a result of the above, overall utilization went from 7% to 11%

 

So to sum up, in 2 days I dropped 44 points in FICO 8 by

(1) adding 2 accounts with balances

(2) increasing overall utilization from 4% to 11%

(3) increasing individual balances (a) from 13% to 47%, (b) from

zero to 52%, and (c) from zero to 87%

 

 

 


FICO8 EQ 736 TU 761 EX 741 FICO5 EQ 720 Total revolving 422500
Valued Contributor
Posts: 1,456
Registered: ‎03-22-2012

Re: Utilization up; 20-point loss

Yeah, I'm getting hammered for UTI too.

 

We bought a house back in February and thought we would get some 0% cards to help furnish it. I had the cash but it was invested in stocks and they were/are doing great so I didn't want to cash them in. I received an AMEX BCE with $20K CL and a Citi Diamond Preferred with $8K CL. The AMEX is at 60% UTI and the Citi card is at 75% UTI. Man...My scores are somewhere around 40 to 50 points lower than if I had low UTI. Granted, I have a lot of their money that I'm not paying interest on, but boy are they making me pay with credit score points!


Starting Score: EQ 653 6/21/12
Current Score: EQ 703 8/5/17 - EX 743 8/5/17 - TU 731 8/5/17
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Senior Contributor
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Registered: ‎04-11-2016
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Re: Utilization up; 20-point loss

If you guys think about it, a 20 point shift or even 40 point shift from utilization isn't all that significant when you look at the big picture. 

 

The way I see it, utilization comprises 30% of the 550 point range (300 to 850) that makes up your FICO score.  30% of 550 is 165 points, so on paper you would think a score could be impacted by up to that many points when comparing ideal utilizataion to worst case utilization.  While the numbers may not be as cut and dry as I indicate above, you've got to figure ballpark that's what we're looking at when considering utilization.  That said, 20-40 points of change out of a possible 165 isn't huge.  I know all profiles are different, there are different score cards and other factors to consider here, but this is just another angle to look at regarding the utilization discussion.

Super Contributor
Posts: 6,169
Registered: ‎02-24-2015
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Re: Utilization up; 20-point loss

[ Edited ]

Update 8/13/17 1:56 p.m.

 

EQ FICO 8 dropped 41 points, presumably on the same data, but I do not have an updated EQ report with which to confirm this.

 

Update 8/14/17 1:25 p.m.

 

TU FICO 8 dropped only 15 points, but it appears that this takes into account the 47% & 52% lines of credit, but not the 87% credit card. 

 

Update 8/16/17 1:55 p.m.

 

TU FIC0 8 dropped another 27 points, for a total 42 point drop.

 

 


FICO8 EQ 736 TU 761 EX 741 FICO5 EQ 720 Total revolving 422500
Super Contributor
Posts: 6,169
Registered: ‎02-24-2015
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Re: Utilization up; 20-point loss

Wrapping it up:

 

By

(1) adding 2 accounts with balances

(2) increasing overall utilization from 4% to 11%

(3) increasing individual balances (a) from 13% to 47%, (b) from

zero to 52%, and (c) from zero to 87%

 

I experienced the following point drops in FICO 8

EX 44

EQ 41

TU 42

 

I must say I'm pleased to see that the 3 bureaus acted in unison


FICO8 EQ 736 TU 761 EX 741 FICO5 EQ 720 Total revolving 422500
Senior Contributor
Posts: 6,379
Registered: ‎04-11-2016

Re: Utilization up; 20-point loss


SouthJamaica wrote:

I experienced the following point drops in FICO 8

EX 44

EQ 41

TU 42

 

I must say I'm pleased to see that the 3 bureaus acted in unison


Very true, as we often hear about vast differences in the way the different bureaus react to profile changes.

Established Contributor
Posts: 1,613
Registered: ‎03-28-2017

Re: Utilization up; 20-point loss

Great data points!

 

Since my credit scorecard is dirty (0-1 unpaid tax liens, 1 unpaid collection), my utilization has an effect but nothing as drastic as this.  I left 38% utilization on 2 cards last month and while my score dropped, it wasn't very significant.  When one showed PIF today and the other went from 38%->28%, I got a few points back, but nothing to write home about.  That unpaid collection is due for PFD soon so hoping I'll start being able to furnish some cleam profile data points here, too!

Senior Contributor
Posts: 6,379
Registered: ‎04-11-2016

Re: Utilization raised --> 40-42 point drop

What impact did that have on your aggregate utilization? With aggregate utilization King, often individual cards with higher balances don't impact score much or at all so long as aggregate stays in the ideal range.
Established Contributor
Posts: 1,613
Registered: ‎03-28-2017
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Re: Utilization raised --> 40-42 point drop

[ Edited ]

Me?

 

Good question...  including store cards, I had an aggregate CL of about $8000 (tho got some CLIs this week that haven't posted yet) and the two accounts were at $960 and $1160, so the aggregate is 26% which is what I saw on my last 3B.

 

Now after paying before the statement cut, I am down to $700/$8000 or 8.75% and I think I saw a FAKO update saying I was at 9% reported.  This month at statement cut I'll be back down to my usual $5 so even if the new CLIs update on my CRs, it shouldn't matter since $5 is meaningless unless I only had $200 CLs total.

 

Wasn't enough of a hit overall.  I am letting my Chase FU report 99.9% today but once I get the FICO alert I'll PIF to $0 and it'll update the reports again.  Should be interesting to see what happens when one card is at $0.  Maybe I'll wait to PIF until the other card reports to $5.

 

As others have said elsewhere, those with a dirty scorecard aren't affected as much by utilization because we're already dinged for the dirty tradelines.  I called my collection agency with the utility debt from 2017 today to pay it off and of course the manager I've been dealing with is on vacation this week and I sure as heck am not paying it to someone who wasn't part of the PFD agreement.  The new lady kept offering me 70% off if I pay today, but I have an agreement for 100% for PFD with the manager.  Nice lady, never once was harassing me, just kept saying "don't be in a rush, this deal won't just go away" haha.

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