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Re: When is an account no longer considered "new"?


805orbust wrote:

That's fascinating... what I'm even more surprised about is the lack of data on the effect of the youngest account aging 2 years... is this true?  It shouldn't be too difficult to to determine.  I'll most likely have my final "new" account by next month.  I will be taking at LEAST a 2 year hiatus from any applications for credit.  However, that gives rise to a question about rebucketing events:  Does every rebucketing event result in a change in reason codes? 


What I meant is that most posters on the forums don't go 2 years without apping for new cards. I've never seen anyone report the results of youngest account aging to 2 years. You are correct. It would not be difficult to determine.

 

I'm not sure that rebucketing events always result in a change in reason codes. Youngest account aging to 6 months is a major rebucketing event for some clean profiles in FICO 04, but I still get the reason code "You opened a new credit account relatively recently." I'll check some older 3B pulls to see if there was a change in reason codes last time I crossed that threshold.

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Re: When is an account no longer considered "new"?

I just reviewed 2 FICO 04 rebucketing events. In both cases my youngest account aged to 6 months. The events are from 2014 and 2016. I gained 28 points in 2014 and 22 points this year.

 

For all Equifax FICO 04 and Experian FICO 04 scores the reason code "You've recently opened too many new credit accounts" disappeared after crossing the 6 month youngest account threshold. It remained for the Transunion Bankcard Enhanced score. That was the only exception.

 

The reason code "You opened a new credit account relatively recently" remained for all FICO 04 scores after crossing the 6 month youngest account threshold.

 

So, for my profile the reason code "You've recently opened too many new credit accounts" seems to be tied to having an account younger that 6 months.

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Re: When is an account no longer considered "new"?

I see your point.  If I had a dollar for every time I said I wasn't going to app anymore puhleese.  Im interested in the large jumps after your rebucketing.  I was always under the impression that rebuckteting always resulted in a stall or downward pressure on scores.  (as a result of being compared against stiffer competition) That may explain why I had a 30 point jump across all 3 last August.  I had 2 small collections that I was able to negotiate a PFD and had scores jump as soon as they updated.

 

If you dont' mind me asking, how exactly are you able to sniff out a rebucketing event?  I think I've completely misunderstood this up until this point.

FICO 8:  EQ:687  TU:728  EX:735
Established Contributor
Posts: 886
Registered: ‎01-01-2014

Re: When is an account no longer considered "new"?


805orbust wrote:

I see your point.  If I had a dollar for every time I said I wasn't going to app anymore puhleese.  Im interested in the large jumps after your rebucketing.  I was always under the impression that rebuckteting always resulted in a stall or downward pressure on scores.  (as a result of being compared against stiffer competition) That may explain why I had a 30 point jump across all 3 last August.  I had 2 small collections that I was able to negotiate a PFD and had scores jump as soon as they updated.

 

If you dont' mind me asking, how exactly are you able to sniff out a rebucketing event?  I think I've completely misunderstood this up until this point.


I've been monitoring my scores for a while. I'm always looking for thresholds that might affect scoring. These thresholds are things like youngest account aged to 6 months, youngest account aged to 1 or 2 years, AAoA and age of oldest account.

 

When I see a significant score increase certain things will suggest a rebucketing. Crossing the 6 month youngst account threshold for FICO 04 not only causes a score change but also a change in behaviors such as sensitivity to number of accounts reporting a balance. This signifies a rebucketing.

 

When I crossed the 1 year youngest account threshold, my FICO 8 scores increased, but my FICO 9 scores decreased. Significant score changes in opposite directions, for different scoring models, strongly suggests a rebucketing.

 

Rebucketing can cause a score increase or a score decrease.

 

Were your reports clean after your 2 collections disappeared?

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Re: When is an account no longer considered "new"?


BrutalBodyShots wrote:

I know this isn't directly related to the topic in discussion, but upon pulling my CCT 3B scores today, for the first time in the reason codes section of "Factors helping your score" under TU I see "Not seeking credit."

 


As far as I understand it, the "Factors helping your score" aren't actual reason codes. The positive factors were created for the end consumer. They have absolutely no value or meaning whatsoever. I could be wrong.

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Re: When is an account no longer considered "new"?


BrutalBodyShots wrote:

I guess the moral of the story is not to put too much thought into reason codes in general!  It seems more often than not they raise more questions rather than provide answers.


That has always been opinion of reason codes

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Re: When is an account no longer considered "new"?


JLK93 wrote:

CreditGuyInDixie wrote:

JLK93 wrote:

CreditGuyInDixie wrote:

 

 the timing of an account turning 1 year old often coincides with inquiries turning one year old,   

 


Actually, that doesn't happen all that often. This is only an issue if the inquiry occurs in the first 2 days of the month. The oldest account always ages to one year of the 1st. Anyone with daily credit monitoring should have no difficulty separating the 2 aging events.


So, just for clarity, if a person had an account that was opened on 01/09/2016, and he pulled his credit scores on 01/16/2017, you are saying that the FICO 8 algorithm would not consider his account 1 year old?  He'd need to wait until Feb 1 before the algorithm would classify that account as 1 year old?


No, the algorithm will consider the account 1 year old on 01/01/2017. If an inquiry was taken on the same date, the algorithm will consider the inquiry 1 year old on 01/08/2017.


I'm looking at a CCT report. All accounts from EX report open mm/1/yyyy, for EQ and TU they do report on the actual date mm/dd/yyyy.

 

Do you see score changes in all 3 the first of the month? or only EX?

 

This is interesting indeed. Thank you.

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Re: When is an account no longer considered "new"?


805orbust wrote:

 Although I get smacked around on here for it all the time, I have ALWAYS believed that the reason codes are bull... 


It is my belief that the reason codes were created to assist banks with regulatory compliance and increase FICO's value to the banks. I doubt seriously that they were ever intended to have any other value.

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Re: When is an account no longer considered "new"?


newhis wrote:

JLK93 wrote:

CreditGuyInDixie wrote:

JLK93 wrote:

CreditGuyInDixie wrote:

 

 the timing of an account turning 1 year old often coincides with inquiries turning one year old,   

 


Actually, that doesn't happen all that often. This is only an issue if the inquiry occurs in the first 2 days of the month. The oldest account always ages to one year of the 1st. Anyone with daily credit monitoring should have no difficulty separating the 2 aging events.


So, just for clarity, if a person had an account that was opened on 01/09/2016, and he pulled his credit scores on 01/16/2017, you are saying that the FICO 8 algorithm would not consider his account 1 year old?  He'd need to wait until Feb 1 before the algorithm would classify that account as 1 year old?


No, the algorithm will consider the account 1 year old on 01/01/2017. If an inquiry was taken on the same date, the algorithm will consider the inquiry 1 year old on 01/08/2017.


I'm looking at a CCT report. All accounts from EX report open mm/1/yyyy, for EQ and TU they do report on the actual date mm/dd/yyyy.

 

Do you see score changes in all 3 the first of the month? or only EX?

 

This is interesting indeed. Thank you.


I always see score changes, related to aging of accounts, on the 1st of the month for all 3 CRAs.

 

On September 1st, all of my FICO 8 scores increased due to the youngest account aging to 1 year. All of my FICO 9 scores decreased on the same day due to a rebucketing based on the youngest account aging to 1 year.

 

The youngest account that caused all of these changes on September 1st was actually opened on September 17th. This is the way I have always experienced account aging for all 3 CRAs.

 

IIRC, up until several years ago, Equifax also reported all accounts as being opened on the first of the month. The algorithms haven't been changed to taked into account the more accurate account opening dates nor available from 2 of the credit bureaus.

 

The FICO scoring of account aging probably won't change until all three CRAs start reporting accurate account opening dates. We probably won't see this change until FICO 10. That is a long time away.

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Re: When is an account no longer considered "new"?


JLK93 wrote:

I always see score changes, related to aging of accounts, on the 1st of the month for all 3 CRAs.

 

On September 1st, all of my FICO 8 scores increased due to the youngest account aging to 1 year. All of my FICO 9 scores decreased on the same day due to a rebucketing based on the youngest account aging to 1 year.

 

The youngest account that caused all of these changes on September 1st was actually opened on September 17th. This is the way I have always experienced account aging for all 3 CRAs.

 

IIRC, up until several years ago, Equifax also reported all accounts as being opened on the first of the month. The algorithms haven't been changed to taked into account the more accurate account opening dates nor available from 2 of the credit bureaus.

 

The FICO scoring of account aging probably won't change until all three CRAs start reporting accurate account opening dates. We probably won't see this change until FICO 10. That is a long time away.


 Thank you. Great info about the FICO 8 increase and FICO 9 decrease for same event.

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