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When will credit card company's begin using FICO 9?

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Anonymous
Not applicable

When will credit card company's begin using FICO 9?

Anyone have a sense of when the credit card companies will switch from FICO 8 to 9? 

My 9 scores are MUCH better than my 8 scores, so I'm hoping it will be soon.

Message 1 of 16
15 REPLIES 15
Dalmus
Valued Contributor

Re: When will credit card company's begin using FICO 9?

Some already are... Landmark CU used FICO 9 when they have my fiance her credit card.

NFCU MR: $25K | Venture: $21K | Amex ED: $18K | NFCU CR: $18K | Amex BCE: $15K | IT #1: $17.5K | PNC Core: $15K | PPMC:  $12K | Wells Fargo: $11K | Savor: 12K | Cap1 QS: $8.5K | Barclays Rewards: $7.75K | IT #2: $7.3K | MLife: $9.5K | Sportsman's Guide: $8.7K | PenFed PR: $5.5K | Elan Plat: $2.3K | TRV: $3.6K | BotW: $3K


Current FICO 8 Scores: EQ: 828| TU: 805 | EX: 814


Message 2 of 16
longtimelurker
Epic Contributor

Re: When will credit card company's begin using FICO 9?


@Dalmus wrote:
Some already are... Landmark CU used FICO 9 when they have my fiance her credit card.

In general, I would expect migration to be fairly slow whenever a new version is released.   Regardless of what FICO says, an issuer would want to know that the new version predicts better, on THEIR customers, than the prior version, and generally it takes time to test that (you have to wait for some customers to get into trouble!)

Message 3 of 16
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: When will credit card company's begin using FICO 9?


@Anonymous wrote:

Anyone have a sense of when the credit card companies will switch from FICO 8 to 9? 

My 9 scores are MUCH better than my 8 scores, so I'm hoping it will be soon.


Really? My fico 9 score is much, much worse. The only negatives I have are lates on my student loans from 5 years ago.

 

The recency of most of my credit being 18 months old or less weighs so much heavier on FICO 9. In FICO 8, my student loan age evens it out.

Message 4 of 16
CreditMagic7
Mega Contributor

Re: When will credit card company's begin using FICO 9?

At least one of my own card accounts have recently transitioned over to FICO 9 in Commerce Bank.

 

A very nice jump in score with that model too i might add.

Message 5 of 16
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: When will credit card company's begin using FICO 9?

Does FICO 9 use trended data at all, or will that be a later model like FICO 10? 

Message 6 of 16
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: When will credit card company's begin using FICO 9?


@Anonymous wrote:

Does FICO 9 use trended data at all, or will that be a later model like FICO 10? 


I asked John Ulzheimer about that in the fall of 2014.  JU is one of the more reliable journalists about credit scoring, since he worked for FICO for a number of years.  Below is my question and his reply.

 

Aside from JU's opinion (he says trended data would not be used in FICO 9) here are some other reasons he's likely to be right.  FICO 9 was released in late 2014.  That means its team of developers were working on it in 2012-2014.  Trended data were simply not widely available back then.  They were being collected, but not all CC issuers were supplying the data, not all three CRAs had made the same progress on it, etc.  So as far as I can see there's no way that FICO 9 could have included such a radical paradigm shift back then.

 

Another reason is that the "upcoming changes in FICO 9" were talked to death by credit journalists in the last half of 2014, and more articles were written about FICO 9 during 2015.  I didn't see even one that mentioned the inclusion of trended data.  If FICO was in fact doing that, it would have been a HUGE deal.  It would have been the central "new" thing that experts in the credit industry would have talked about.

 

My opinion is that trended data will without a doubt be a big part of FICO 10 and Vantage 4.  Furthermore companies are and have been creating specialized products that analyze trended data (in particular the extent to which a prospective borrower is more of a revolver or a transactor) -- products that supplement decision making that is made based on a FICO score say.  Fannie Mae commisioned someone to create an R-T analysis module that is now part of its standard underwriting software (Desktop Underwriter).  The R-T module was added in August of last year.  That's just one example.

 

QUESTION:

 

Hi John. Can you tell us whether the new FICO 9 or VantageScore 3.0 will factor into their model whether a credit card user pays his bill in full each month, or whether he sometimes carries a portion of his balance over to the next month?

You discuss this in detail in your eye-opening article "Are You a Revolver or a Transactor?" (May 1, 2014). You suggest that the answer is that no models are using as a factor yet, but "it’s really just a matter of time" before they do.

Have you heard whether FICO 9 will? If FICO 9 or the latest Vantage Score don't do it this year, could they add it to their models (say) next year? Love to hear any guesses you might have.

 

ANSWER:

 

Neither is doing that right now. But, TU does have some analytic products that do consider whether or not someone revolves vs transacts.

Message 7 of 16
CreditMagic7
Mega Contributor

Re: When will credit card company's begin using FICO 9?


@Anonymous wrote:

@Anonymous wrote:

Does FICO 9 use trended data at all, or will that be a later model like FICO 10? 


I asked John Ulzheimer about that in the fall of 2014.  JU is one of the more reliable journalists about credit scoring, since he worked for FICO for a number of years.  Below is my question and his reply.

 

Aside from JU's opinion (he says trended data would not be used in FICO 9) here are some other reasons he's likely to be right.  FICO 9 was released in late 2014.  That means its team of developers were working on it in 2012-2014.  Trended data were simply not widely available back then.  They were being collected, but not all CC issuers were supplying the data, not all three CRAs had made the same progress on it, etc.  So as far as I can see there's no way that FICO 9 could have included such a radical paradigm shift back then.

 

Another reason is that the "upcoming changes in FICO 9" were talked to death by credit journalists in the last half of 2014, and more articles were written about FICO 9 during 2015.  I didn't see even one that mentioned the inclusion of trended data.  If FICO was in fact doing that, it would have been a HUGE deal.  It would have been the central "new" thing that experts in the credit industry would have talked about.

 

My opinion is that trended data will without a doubt be a big part of FICO 10 and Vantage 4.  Furthermore companies are and have been creating specialized products that analyze trended data (in particular the extent to which a prospective borrower is more of a revolver or a transactor) -- products that supplement decision making that is made based on a FICO score say.  Fannie Mae commisioned someone to create an R-T analysis module that is now part of its standard underwriting software (Desktop Underwriter).  The R-T module was added in August of last year.  That's just one example.

 

QUESTION:

 

Hi John. Can you tell us whether the new FICO 9 or VantageScore 3.0 will factor into their model whether a credit card user pays his bill in full each month, or whether he sometimes carries a portion of his balance over to the next month?

You discuss this in detail in your eye-opening article "Are You a Revolver or a Transactor?" (May 1, 2014). You suggest that the answer is that no models are using as a factor yet, but "it’s really just a matter of time" before they do.

Have you heard whether FICO 9 will? If FICO 9 or the latest Vantage Score don't do it this year, could they add it to their models (say) next year? Love to hear any guesses you might have.

 

ANSWER:

 

Neither is doing that right now. But, TU does have some analytic products that do consider whether or not someone revolves vs transacts.


Hi CGID.

 

Just to touch momentarily on trended data aspect.

 

In your opinion IF and/or more likely WHEN, a cardholder(s) "revolves" a balance or balances AT ALL, is this activity whether it is once. twice etc. compared to PIF routinely on all other accounts, trended to some comparison in order for distinctions to be made to someone who revolves vs transacts.

 

In others words, are we close to right to assume that this data to the revolving activity will be collected and scored by percentages to weigh if the Credit User is considered one or the other?

 

This will be a great topic for further discussion in another thread to maybe better hammer out who will fall into which category and if that might be distributed on a percentage basis (how many times a balance is rolled) compared to PIF routine.

 

Thanks for any answer in advance.

 

Can you tell us what you know?

Message 8 of 16
Dalmus
Valued Contributor

Re: When will credit card company's begin using FICO 9?

 We did a large share secured loan against a CD at Landmark at the same time, and my TU FICO 9 was about 20 points higher than my TU FICO 8.  695 - 715.

 

 

NFCU MR: $25K | Venture: $21K | Amex ED: $18K | NFCU CR: $18K | Amex BCE: $15K | IT #1: $17.5K | PNC Core: $15K | PPMC:  $12K | Wells Fargo: $11K | Savor: 12K | Cap1 QS: $8.5K | Barclays Rewards: $7.75K | IT #2: $7.3K | MLife: $9.5K | Sportsman's Guide: $8.7K | PenFed PR: $5.5K | Elan Plat: $2.3K | TRV: $3.6K | BotW: $3K


Current FICO 8 Scores: EQ: 828| TU: 805 | EX: 814


Message 9 of 16
HeavenOhio
Senior Contributor

Re: When will credit card company's begin using FICO 9?


@Anonymous wrote:
Aside from JU's opinion (he says trended data would not be used in FICO 9) here are some other reasons he's likely to be right.  FICO 9 was released in late 2014.  That means its team of developers were working on it in 2012-2014.  Trended data were simply not widely available back then.  They were being collected, but not all CC issuers were supplying the data, not all three CRAs had made the same progress on it, etc.  So as far as I can see there's no way that FICO 9 could have included such a radical paradigm shift back then.

When I look at the recent reports I obtained from annualcreditreport.com, it's apparent that the framework is present. Equifax and Experian are keeping this type of information for 24 months, and TransUnion keeps it for 30.

 

But two of my card companies aren't providing the necessary data. Month-by-month statement balances are present. But "scheduled payment" is innacurate; that field shows the "standard" minimum payment, whether the card has a balance that month or not. And "actual amount paid" isn't provided.

 

With the other cards, it's pretty easy to tell if I've been revolving or transacting. And in the couple of cases where I was revolving (0% promos), it's easy to tell that I was making payments substantially above the minimum.

Message 10 of 16
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