Why did I lose 14 points from this?

[Thomas_Thumb]

Oilcan12

CAPTOOL's data is rather explicit in showing 2 breakpoints for aggregate installment loans:

CAPTOOL's event sequence viewed in aggregate:

(525+4558)/7050 = 72.1% => (125+4558)/7050 = 66.4% => 125/2050 = 6.1%

 * ........score 712 @ 72% => score 723 @ 66%, score 722 @ 66% => score 741 @ 6%

The aggregate view suggests a breakpoint between 72% to 66% (at 70%?) and one with a larger impact going from 66% to 6% [at 9% per SJ data].

1) Essentially the 1st is at 70%

2) a 2nd one with larger impact at some lower B/L ratio. When coupled with SJ's data that 2nd breakpoint appears to be about 9%. Your data appears to support this lower breakpoint as well. Not able to rationalize how your data refutes a 2nd, higher, B/L  breakpoint at 70%.

[SouthJamaica]

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@Thomas_Thumb wrote:

Oilcan12

CAPTOOL's data is rather explicit in showing 2 breakpoints for aggregate installment loans:

CAPTOOL's event sequence viewed in aggregate:

(525+4558)/7050 = 72.1% => (125+4558)/7050 = 66.4% => 125/2050 = 6.1%

@ * ........score 712 @ 72% => score 723 @ 66%, score 722 @ 66% => score 741 @ 6%

The aggregate view suggests a breakpoint between 72% to 66% (at 70%?) and one with a larger impact going from 66% to 6% [at 9% per SJ data].

1) Essentially the 1st is at 70%

2) a 2nd one with larger impact at some lower B/L ratio. When coupled with SJ's data that 2nd breakpoint appears to be about 9%. Your data appears to support this lower breakpoint as well. Not able to rationalize how your data refutes a 2nd, higher, B/L  breakpoint at 70%.

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If all goes well I will be testing each 10% potential threshold... hoping there are some thresholds in between 10% and 70%. For now I'm at 69%, testing the 70% level. Will have those results around August 11th.

As mentioned, 80% seemed to be either a minor event or a non event.

[JLK93]

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@Thomas_Thumb wrote:

Oilcan12

CAPTOOL's data is rather explicit in showing 2 breakpoints for aggregate installment loans:

CAPTOOL's event sequence viewed in aggregate:

(525+4558)/7050 = 72.1% => (125+4558)/7050 = 66.4% => 125/2050 = 6.1%

@ * ........score 712 @ 72% => score 723 @ 66%, score 722 @ 66% => score 741 @ 6%

The aggregate view suggests a breakpoint between 72% to 66% (at 70%?) and one with a larger impact going from 66% to 6% [at 9% per SJ data].

1) Essentially the 1st is at 70%

2) a 2nd one with larger impact at some lower B/L ratio. When coupled with SJ's data that 2nd breakpoint appears to be about 9%. Your data appears to support this lower breakpoint as well. Not able to rationalize how your data refutes a 2nd, higher, B/L  breakpoint at 70%.

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Thomas_Thumb

You are talking about aggregate installment loans and applying that data to individual types of installment loans. I don't see the connection. To make that reach, you have to assume that all installment loans are scored the same. There is no evidence to suggest that is the fact.

I really didn't want to get into a long explanation. But, since you insist.

I gained 39, 38 and 34 points from going to approximately 12% to 8.5% on a secued installment loan. I took a second secured installment loan. There was an overlap of a couple of weeks where both loans were reporting. There was no score change. 

Then, my SDFCU loan reported as closed.

I think by this time we should all agree that FICO 8 does not score closed installment loans.

There was no score change.

In other words, 12% to 8.5% resulted in the same scoring effect as 100% to <10%.

I consider this evidence to be conclusive that there is only one break point, at 10%, for my profile.

That does not mean that it is not possible that there is a 70% break point for dirty reports. And, I do not believe that data from aggregate loans can be applied to any type of installment loan.

Once again, I have to mention the fact that no one has demonstraped a 70% break point for a single secured installment loan. The 70% break point has only been demonstrated for aggregate loans. Making a connection between the two is a matter of philosophy, not experimentation.

[elim]

I got the exact 14 point drop on EQ 08 last week during a refi. The new loan is reporting at 100% utilization and the closed loan was at 78%. Both are reporting so I do have an open instalment loan on EQ.

[Thomas_Thumb]

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oilcan12 wrote:

Thomas_Thumb

You are talking about aggregate installment loans and applying that data to individual types of installment loans. I don't see the connection. To make that reach, you have to assume that all installment loans are scored the same. There is no evidence to suggest that is the fact.

I really didn't want to get into a long explanation. But, since you insist.

I gained 39, 38 and 34 points from going to approximately 12% to 8.5% on a secued installment loan. I took a second secured installment loan. There was an overlap of a couple of weeks where both loans were reporting. There was no score change. 

Then, my SDFCU loan reported as closed.

I think by this time we should all agree that FICO 8 does not score closed installment loans.

There was no score change.

In other words, 12% to 8.5% resulted in the same scoring effect as 100% to <10%.

I consider this evidence to be conclusive that there is only one break point, at 10%, for my profile.

That does not mean that it is not possible that there is a 70% break point for dirty reports. And, I do not believe that data from aggregate loans can be applied to any type of installment loan.

Once again, I have to mention the fact that no one has demonstraped a 70% break point for a single secured installment loan. The 70% break point has only been demonstrated for aggregate loans. Making a connection between the two is a matter of philosophy, not experimentation. 

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So perhaps shared secured has no scoring "impact" if you have other types of "higher commitment" open loans [auto, mortgage] on file?

I'll be interested to see what SJ's results show.

I have only ever had a mortgage and relatively high B/L ratios [50% to 70% range] are not harmfull to Fico 08 score. That is rational as mortgages are long term commitments. Demonstrating an ability to pay down to some extent is important but, negatively impacting score until B/L gets to a trivial, under 10%, level is not advantageous to borrowers not lenders.

Elim - Your data (mortgage related - yes?) appears to support Olican's 80% hypothesis for mortgages.

[JLK93]

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@Thomas_Thumb wrote:

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@oilcan12 wrote:

Thomas_Thumb

You are talking about aggregate installment loans and applying that data to individual types of installment loans. I don't see the connection. To make that reach, you have to assume that all installment loans are scored the same. There is no evidence to suggest that is the fact.

I really didn't want to get into a long explanation. But, since you insist.

I gained 39, 38 and 34 points from going to approximately 12% to 8.5% on a secued installment loan. I took a second secured installment loan. There was an overlap of a couple of weeks where both loans were reporting. There was no score change. 

Then, my SDFCU loan reported as closed.

I think by this time we should all agree that FICO 8 does not score closed installment loans.

There was no score change.

In other words, 12% to 8.5% resulted in the same scoring effect as 100% to <10%.

I consider this evidence to be conclusive that there is only one break point, at 10%, for my profile.

That does not mean that it is not possible that there is a 70% break point for dirty reports. And, I do not believe that data from aggregate loans can be applied to any type of installment loan.

Once again, I have to mention the fact that no one has demonstraped a 70% break point for a single secured installment loan. The 70% break point has only been demonstrated for aggregate loans. Making a connection between the two is a matter of philosophy, not experimentation. 

---

 So perhaps shared secured has no scoring "impact" if you have other types of "higher commitment" open loans [auto, mortgage] on file?

I'll be interested to see what SJ's results show.

I have only ever had a mortgage and relatively high B/L ratios [50% to 70% range] are not harmfull to Fico 08 score. That is rational as mortgages are long term commitments. Demonstrating an ability to pay down to some extent is important but, negatively impacting score until B/L gets to a trivial, under 10%, level is not advantageous to borrowers not lenders.

---

This is something I have often wondered about. 

I'm not saying that the secured installment has no scoring impact, but perhaps the aggregate loan utilization is scored according the the "higher commitment" open loan. At this point, I believe everything is up in the air.

[masscredit]

I just checked my TU score. It's still at 729. It didn't lose any points and didn't gain any points. Then I jumped over to CK to view my TU and EQ reports. TU shows that jet ski loans that we were talking about as being closed in 2007/'08. EQ shows them before closed recently.  So I'm sitting here wondering -

Why both reports don't show the same dates for when the loans were closed?  I can see them being off a month but not 7-8 years.

Was the 14 point loss because EQ started reporting the loans as being closed?

Did my EQ score gain 13 points because my auto loan reported at 69%?

Was the whole thing a coincidence/fluke and we're never really going to understand scoring anyway?

[Vegas4Play]

This has been really weird, I can 't wait to see what happens on my hubby's last installment payment oh goodness.

[JLK93]

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@oilcan12 wrote:

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@Thomas_Thumb wrote:

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@oilcan12 wrote:

Thomas_Thumb

You are talking about aggregate installment loans and applying that data to individual types of installment loans. I don't see the connection. To make that reach, you have to assume that all installment loans are scored the same. There is no evidence to suggest that is the fact.

I really didn't want to get into a long explanation. But, since you insist.

I gained 39, 38 and 34 points from going to approximately 12% to 8.5% on a secued installment loan. I took a second secured installment loan. There was an overlap of a couple of weeks where both loans were reporting. There was no score change. 

Then, my SDFCU loan reported as closed.

I think by this time we should all agree that FICO 8 does not score closed installment loans.

There was no score change.

In other words, 12% to 8.5% resulted in the same scoring effect as 100% to <10%.

I consider this evidence to be conclusive that there is only one break point, at 10%, for my profile.

That does not mean that it is not possible that there is a 70% break point for dirty reports. And, I do not believe that data from aggregate loans can be applied to any type of installment loan.

Once again, I have to mention the fact that no one has demonstraped a 70% break point for a single secured installment loan. The 70% break point has only been demonstrated for aggregate loans. Making a connection between the two is a matter of philosophy, not experimentation. 

---

 So perhaps shared secured has no scoring "impact" if you have other types of "higher commitment" open loans [auto, mortgage] on file?

I'll be interested to see what SJ's results show.

I have only ever had a mortgage and relatively high B/L ratios [50% to 70% range] are not harmfull to Fico 08 score. That is rational as mortgages are long term commitments. Demonstrating an ability to pay down to some extent is important but, negatively impacting score until B/L gets to a trivial, under 10%, level is not advantageous to borrowers not lenders.

---

This is something I have often wondered about. 

I'm not saying that the secured installment has no scoring impact, but perhaps the aggregate loan utilization is scored according the the "higher commitment" open loan. At this point, I believe everything is up in the air.

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This is only one possibility. It is conceivable 2 loans are simply scored differently than 1 loan. The scoring of the combination of loans doesn't necessarily have to be the same as either loan.