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amex charge card balance bringing down FICO?

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awp317
Frequent Contributor

amex charge card balance bringing down FICO?

So for whatever reason my amex reports about a week before the payment is due that month so any balance usually reports to my CR. Lately every time the balance increased I get an Myfico alert showing the % it increased and a 10-20 point drop on whatever bureau it reported to, like for instance It reported 288 dollars last month, I paid that off when the statement cut and then charged about 600 bucks this month, Fico just saw it as a 400 dollar increase. So Im finding my self either having to pay it off almost 2 weeks early each month, or let the balance report, I was under the impression that becuase it had no set limit that it didnt have a utilization so that the balance on there really didnt matter? But it literally just reported a 658 dollar balance and that dropped me 17 points. My overall UTl is 2% so its not like im maxed out anywhere, maybe I just misunderstood how it works. But im just surprised such a small amount reporting can do that much. Any thoughts? Thanks! 

Amex Platinum NPSL I Chase Sapphire Reserve 78K I Chase Freedom U 55k I JP Morgan Ritz 50k I B OF A Cash Rewards 50k I Barclay Black Luxury 43,750 I Capital One QuickSilver 40K I Amex BCP 34k I Amex Optima Platinum 30k I Barclays Arrival+ World E 29k I Merril+ 27,800 I Lowes 25k I Pen Fed PR Visa Sig 20K I Home Depot 17k I NFCU Cash Rewards 8k

Amex Biz Platinum NPSL I Lowes Business 42k I Amex Simply Cash + $22,500 I Chase Ink 21K I B of A World Points $20,500 I B of A Bus MasterCard 16k I Amex SPG 3K.
Message 1 of 18
17 REPLIES 17
Scupra
Super Contributor

Re: amex charge card balance bringing down FICO?

Are you preparing to apply for anything? Worrying about this could be more headache than it's worth unless you are trying to get FICO's in line to app for something.

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Message 2 of 18
awp317
Frequent Contributor

Re: amex charge card balance bringing down FICO?


@Scupra wrote:

Are you preparing to apply for anything? Worrying about this could be more headache than it's worth unless you are trying to get FICO's in line to app for something.


Yes planning a new car in the next 30 days. 

Amex Platinum NPSL I Chase Sapphire Reserve 78K I Chase Freedom U 55k I JP Morgan Ritz 50k I B OF A Cash Rewards 50k I Barclay Black Luxury 43,750 I Capital One QuickSilver 40K I Amex BCP 34k I Amex Optima Platinum 30k I Barclays Arrival+ World E 29k I Merril+ 27,800 I Lowes 25k I Pen Fed PR Visa Sig 20K I Home Depot 17k I NFCU Cash Rewards 8k

Amex Biz Platinum NPSL I Lowes Business 42k I Amex Simply Cash + $22,500 I Chase Ink 21K I B of A World Points $20,500 I B of A Bus MasterCard 16k I Amex SPG 3K.
Message 3 of 18
Revelate
Moderator Emeritus

Re: amex charge card balance bringing down FICO?

Which Amex are you referring to?

 

Generally all tests have concluded a charge card (Term 1 month listed on the report, I'd double-check that) isn't factored into any revolving utilization calculation except for number of revolvers with balances.

 

That said @cashnocredit posted some compelling datapoints that suggested EQ FICO 8 was indeed counting it but that was only one person out of many and there aren't many people here that were running 50K+ per month through their personal Amex charge card or similar amounts that would affect their revolving utilization metrics.




        
Message 4 of 18
awp317
Frequent Contributor

Re: amex charge card balance bringing down FICO?


@Revelate wrote:

Which Amex are you referring to?

 

Generally all tests have concluded a charge card (Term 1 month listed on the report, I'd double-check that) isn't factored into any revolving utilization calculation except for number of revolvers with balances.

 

@Anonymous said @cashnocredit posted some compelling datapoints that suggested EQ FICO 8 was indeed counting it but that was only one person out of many and there aren't many people here that were running 50K+ per month through their personal Amex charge card or similar amounts that would affect their revolving utilization metrics.


yes refering to my amex platinum charge card. What surprises me most is how a small balance can drop a score that much. But regardless guess I will just make sure its paid off quicker from now on. It does have the 35k carry option set up on it, so I dont know if that makes a difference. On my report its listing a 658 dollar balance with a 31,xxx high balance, then a - where the limit normally is. So it may not be UTL droping the score just the presence of a balance at all is what your saying? 

Amex Platinum NPSL I Chase Sapphire Reserve 78K I Chase Freedom U 55k I JP Morgan Ritz 50k I B OF A Cash Rewards 50k I Barclay Black Luxury 43,750 I Capital One QuickSilver 40K I Amex BCP 34k I Amex Optima Platinum 30k I Barclays Arrival+ World E 29k I Merril+ 27,800 I Lowes 25k I Pen Fed PR Visa Sig 20K I Home Depot 17k I NFCU Cash Rewards 8k

Amex Biz Platinum NPSL I Lowes Business 42k I Amex Simply Cash + $22,500 I Chase Ink 21K I B of A World Points $20,500 I B of A Bus MasterCard 16k I Amex SPG 3K.
Message 5 of 18
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: amex charge card balance bringing down FICO?


@awp317 wrote:

@Revelate wrote:

Which Amex are you referring to?

 

Generally all tests have concluded a charge card (Term 1 month listed on the report, I'd double-check that) isn't factored into any revolving utilization calculation except for number of revolvers with balances.

 

@Anonymous said @cashnocredit posted some compelling datapoints that suggested EQ FICO 8 was indeed counting it but that was only one person out of many and there aren't many people here that were running 50K+ per month through their personal Amex charge card or similar amounts that would affect their revolving utilization metrics.


yes refering to my amex platinum charge card. What surprises me most is how a small balance can drop a score that much. But regardless guess I will just make sure its paid off quicker from now on. It does have the 35k carry option set up on it, so I dont know if that makes a difference. On my report its listing a 658 dollar balance with a 31,xxx high balance, then a - where the limit normally is. So it may not be UTL droping the score just the presence of a balance at all is what your saying? 


Thom Thumb knows a good bit about the Amex charge cards and how they affect the different models.  Last time I saw him discuss this I think he mentioned that having the "carry" option set up can cause it to be reported as a credit card rather than a charge card.

 

Number of cards reporting a positive balance is indeed a factor that affects credit score -- even if the balances are quite small.  It's a factor completely distinct from individual or aggregate utilization.

 

It sounds as if there are two concerns going on: a practical need to increase your score in preparation for a loan and a desire to speculate in a theoretical way about how scoring models work.

 

The practical solution is clear to you, right?  Pay all your credit cards to $0 except for one.  Make sure that the remaining card is a true credit card (not a charge card), a card in your name (not an AU card) and showing at least $5 as a balance.  Wait till the new balances report and you are ready.  Right?

 

The theoretical issue is different and involves speculation -- speculation that may be of limited value without detailed reproductions of the reports drawn on the same day that you perceived a score drop.

Message 6 of 18
Revelate
Moderator Emeritus

Re: amex charge card balance bringing down FICO?

If you would post the full tradeline details on that Amex w/carry option I'd certainly appreciate it.




        
Message 7 of 18
JLK93
Established Contributor

Re: amex charge card balance bringing down FICO?

I just compared 2 Amex charge cards with the pay over time feature with 1 Amex charge card without the feature on my Equifax and Transunion reports. I don't see any difference in the reporting. I don't see any sign of the pay over time feature being reported. 

Message 8 of 18
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: amex charge card balance bringing down FICO?


@JLK93 wrote:

I just compared 2 Amex charge cards with the pay over time feature with 1 Amex charge card without the feature on my Equifax and Transunion reports. I don't see any difference in the reporting. I don't see any sign of the pay over time feature being reported. 


Do you have months that would sharply reveal the difference if it were happening?  The only example that jumps out at me is a month where you had exactly one revoving account reporting and that account was a revolver with pay over time.  If you took the expected big score hit, that would imply no difference; and if you took no score hit it would imply there was a difference (i.e. that it was being treated like a credit card).

 

But the whole thing is something I have no personal experience with.  I was just doing my best to remember what I think TT said -- and he may have just been saying that he made sure when he was testing a charge card that it didn't have POT just to rule out any unlikely chance that it might be treated as a CC. 

 

As far as the practical aspect of the OP's concern -- and maybe the practical issue of his impending app for an auto loan is all he cares about -- this seems like a slam dunk.  Just zero out his most of his cards and let a true CC show a balance.  Problem solved.

Message 9 of 18
awp317
Frequent Contributor

Re: amex charge card balance bringing down FICO?


@Anonymous wrote:

@JLK93 wrote:

I just compared 2 Amex charge cards with the pay over time feature with 1 Amex charge card without the feature on my Equifax and Transunion reports. I don't see any difference in the reporting. I don't see any sign of the pay over time feature being reported. 


Do you have months that would sharply reveal the difference if it were happening?  The only example that jumps out at me is a month where you had exactly one revoving account reporting and that account was a revolver with pay over time.  If you took the expected big score hit, that would imply no difference; and if you took no score hit it would imply there was a difference (i.e. that it was being treated like a credit card).

 

But the whole thing is something I have no personal experience with.  I was just doing my best to remember what I think TT said -- and he may have just been saying that he made sure when he was testing a charge card that it didn't have POT just to rule out any unlikely chance that it might be treated as a CC. 

 

As far as the practical aspect of the OP's concern -- and maybe the practical issue of his impending app for an auto loan is all he cares about -- this seems like a slam dunk.  Just zero out his most of his cards and let a true CC show a balance.  Problem solved.


Right its an easy fix. Just kinda makes me not want to use the platinum as how volitale i can be towards my CR. Would hate to see what a larger charge would do. 

 

Just looking at a credit report from credit karma it shows "credit card' for both a true amex revolver and amex charge. It just doesnt report a limit on the charge, so maybe it just presumes 100% UTL. It doenst show any % of UTL however. So who knows. 

 

here's a coupe screen shots of the two. 

 

Screen Shot 2016-12-17 at 2.16.51 AM.pngScreen Shot 2016-12-17 at 2.16.25 AM.png

Amex Platinum NPSL I Chase Sapphire Reserve 78K I Chase Freedom U 55k I JP Morgan Ritz 50k I B OF A Cash Rewards 50k I Barclay Black Luxury 43,750 I Capital One QuickSilver 40K I Amex BCP 34k I Amex Optima Platinum 30k I Barclays Arrival+ World E 29k I Merril+ 27,800 I Lowes 25k I Pen Fed PR Visa Sig 20K I Home Depot 17k I NFCU Cash Rewards 8k

Amex Biz Platinum NPSL I Lowes Business 42k I Amex Simply Cash + $22,500 I Chase Ink 21K I B of A World Points $20,500 I B of A Bus MasterCard 16k I Amex SPG 3K.
Message 10 of 18
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