topic Re: American Express - Declined in Credit Card Applications

American Express - Declined

Anonymous — Tue, 26 Apr 2016 19:04:52 GMT

Applied for an American Express Everyday Card after Credit Karma indicated that my chances of getting approved were very good. I have been waiting to get back in with them after my 2/2011 BK that discharged $1200 on a card with them.

I applied, and was not auto declined (suprising) it routed to a risk manager who then declined it the next day for past account closure with American Express.
I called recon line and the lady told me I would never get another Amex account (despite what the letter said) until I paid off the old American Express Account that was discharged in Bankruptcy and she tried to transfer me to the recover department. I told her what she was trying to do was Illegal and violated several federal laws. I asked to speak to a manager and she told me he wasnt going to do anything for me until I paid Amex back. At this point I emailed in to the CEO from an email address I found online, and got a phone call within 12 hours from someone from there Executive Referral department. The lady was nice, and seemed like she wanted to help, She said the app first had to go to a risk manager for an exception override to the past loss and if they chose to make the exception then it would go to the credit team for review to see if I credit qualified. Neither were a gaurentee. I got a call today (the next day) and was told that the RM declined the override even though the loss was very small. When I asked what criteria they used to determine the decline she said it was based on the whole app.

I called BS because my income is approching $200k, my assets are over $250k, and own my own home. The app was for a basic card with them so I finally got her to admit that it was from the prior loss. At this point I was livid, I indicated to her that it was ok for AMEX to make mistakes by willfully violating multiple federal laws and be in the news all the time for various fines the government levied for bad behavior in the past (over charging interest, selling products to customers with no benefit, ect) and yet as someone who regularly spends $100k a year on his credit cards, who made a bad decision in college that lead amex to realizing a small loss I am banned forever, I dont think so. I realized after the fact that they are declining credit applications on something that has nothing to do with credit (they didnt pull a copy of my CBR) which is again them violating fair lending act by basing credit decisions on non credit information.

I have filed a complaint with the CFPB, BBB, OCC, FRB, NY AG, WI AG. Will post results when I hear back.

Re: American Express - Declined

CreditCuriosity — Tue, 26 Apr 2016 19:17:53 GMT

Why not pay them back if you want back in with them? Only $1200 as that is a drop in the bucket on a 200k salary. Otherwise wait it out for 15-20 years and they might let you back in. Whether it was a BK or not, sometimes certain lenders simply want their money back as would I if I lent someone money and was never paid back. They can't demand you to pay them back if you included them in a BK for even $50 dollars, but they certainly have the right not to offer you credit.

Re: American Express - Declined

Anonymous — Tue, 26 Apr 2016 19:17:07 GMT

Sorry for your decline but you're wasting your time with the complaints. American Express is entirely within its rights to deny you credit if you burned them in the past. They don't even need that as a reason because they are under no obligation to grant you a credit card. I also have to say that you went about your recon call completely wrong. Pointing out what Amex has done in the past wasn't likely to encourage them to overturn their decision.

If you're interested in getting back in with them I'd suggest that the first thing you do is to make arrangements to pay off your past debt. Amex isn't the only company that won't even pull your credit report if you're on their blacklist. Not sure how you can say they are basing the decision on non credit facts. Burning them in the past, even in a BK, is credit related.

Re: American Express - Declined

Anonymous — Tue, 26 Apr 2016 19:20:30 GMT

I have filed a complaint with the CFPB, BBB, OCC, FRB, NY AG, WI AG

Seriously? They denied you because you burned them. That is well within their rights.

I realized after the fact that they are declining credit applications on something that has nothing to do with credit (they didnt pull a copy of my CBR) which is again them violating fair lending act by basing credit decisions on non credit information.

The denial was based on credit information. You burning them is credit information.

Re: American Express - Declined

Creditplz — Tue, 26 Apr 2016 19:22:39 GMT

200k income and you haven't paid the $1200?. I made 186k last year and paid all my old debts, best thing I've ever done. They denied me to about 2 months ago with a 730 Ex Fico 8, they are the ones extending credit, they have every right to deny you.

Re: American Express - Declined

DoroLucky — Tue, 26 Apr 2016 19:27:16 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Applied for an American Express Everyday Card after Credit Karma indicated that my chances of getting approved were very good. I have been waiting to get back in with them after my 2/2011 BK that discharged $1200 on a card with them.

That's where you went wrong....I'm sorry but CK isn't relaible LOL

Re: American Express - Declined

Berk — Tue, 26 Apr 2016 19:28:15 GMT

If you lend me money and I burn you one time (even for a small amount) why should you ever have to lend me another dime even if I insist upon it and get my congressman to call you? It's your money - nobody can tell you who you have to lend it to no matter how hard I try to convince you otherwise.

Besides, not having an Amex in your wallet isn't the end of the world.

Re: American Express - Declined

thummel — Tue, 26 Apr 2016 19:27:09 GMT

You burned them in BK. Doesn't matter really in there eyes that you were just a college kid or not. You didn't pay them back and now your trying to get more credit from them. Why would someone extend somebody credit if they failed in the past to pay it back. There's other lenders out there too like Chase that will blacklist someone.

Re: American Express - Declined

Anonymous — Tue, 26 Apr 2016 19:29:59 GMT

Bottom Line,,,You've been BLACKLISTED.

I'm USAA all the way too, but I know how you Feel.

Re: American Express - Declined

sdchrgrboy — Tue, 26 Apr 2016 19:58:48 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Applied for an American Express Everyday Card after Credit Karma indicated that my chances of getting approved were very good. I have been waiting to get back in with them after my 2/2011 BK that discharged $1200 on a card with them.

I applied, and was not auto declined (suprising) it routed to a risk manager who then declined it the next day for past account closure with American Express.
I called recon line and the lady told me I would never get another Amex account (despite what the letter said) until I paid off the old American Express Account that was discharged in Bankruptcy and she tried to transfer me to the recover department. I told her what she was trying to do was Illegal and violated several federal laws. I asked to speak to a manager and she told me he wasnt going to do anything for me until I paid Amex back. At this point I emailed in to the CEO from an email address I found online, and got a phone call within 12 hours from someone from there Executive Referral department. The lady was nice, and seemed like she wanted to help, She said the app first had to go to a risk manager for an exception override to the past loss and if they chose to make the exception then it would go to the credit team for review to see if I credit qualified. Neither were a gaurentee. I got a call today (the next day) and was told that the RM declined the override even though the loss was very small. When I asked what criteria they used to determine the decline she said it was based on the whole app.

I called BS because my income is approching $200k, my assets are over $250k, and own my own home. The app was for a basic card with them so I finally got her to admit that it was from the prior loss. At this point I was livid, I indicated to her that it was ok for AMEX to make mistakes by willfully violating multiple federal laws and be in the news all the time for various fines the government levied for bad behavior in the past (over charging interest, selling products to customers with no benefit, ect) and yet as someone who regularly spends $100k a year on his credit cards, who made a bad decision in college that lead amex to realizing a small loss I am banned forever, I dont think so. I realized after the fact that they are declining credit applications on something that has nothing to do with credit (they didnt pull a copy of my CBR) which is again them violating fair lending act by basing credit decisions on non credit information.

I have filed a complaint with the CFPB, BBB, OCC, FRB, NY AG, WI AG. Will post results when I hear back.

I work in the financial servces industry and with the CFPB and i'm sorry but they did absolutley nothing wrong. Credit decisions are not solely based on your credit report, they can use other factors which can include internal records, etc. I also find it hard to believe that someone making close to $200k can't afford to pay off thier debt or doesn't feel they are responsible for their debt.

Re: American Express - Declined

Anonymous — Tue, 26 Apr 2016 20:00:43 GMT

1- Your right I could absolutly 100% pay them back no problem. Its not the point though. There are plenty of reviews out here that show even after you pay amex back they still leave you black listed. Theres one review I looked at the guy BK'ed for $2500 in the early 90's and cant get another amex with a 800+ fico. And I actually tried to get Amex to reaffirm in BK since it was a charge card the Judge was going to allow it with the balance being from an AU. Amex chose not to reaffirm.

2- I was a bit mad when I wrote the comments, but I did not file the complaints because of the decline, I wrote the complaints because of the willful violation of law. Even after I got a call from there EO the rep said she listened to the call and heard the rep tell me I had to pay of the balance and she was transfering me to recovery because I needed to pay of the balance today. Her response was "Thats not a standard practice" didnt even get an appology... Where is the accountability. And to your point, Amex has had something like 3-4 fines and settlements from the CFPB and other regulators in the recent past so should everyone just close there accounts with amex and not do business with them anymore because amex has burned them? No, people give Amex second chances all the time, so why shouldnt they?

3- Not sure how much experience with fair lending some of you have, but the law requires certain things to happen when a company offers credit to customers. One of those things is applicants are treated on an apples to apples basis. By taking a credit application and basing a decision soley on an experience from 5+ years ago with out any new data that is not treating applicants on a consistant basis. IE: If Amex would have pulled credit and declined the credit because of a Bankruptcy listed on my CBR fine, I could live with that. But basing it on anything other than the full picture of my CBR I can't. Some of you will understand that some will not. But when were talking legal aspects all applicants must be treated equally so if you do X for one customer you have to do X for all, not say oops he is blacklisted so were gonna cut him off right away without properly assessing all of the information consistantly.

Re: American Express - Declined

sdchrgrboy — Tue, 26 Apr 2016 20:19:07 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
1- Your right I could absolutly 100% pay them back no problem. Its not the point though. There are plenty of reviews out here that show even after you pay amex back they still leave you black listed. Theres one review I looked at the guy BK'ed for $2500 in the early 90's and cant get another amex with a 800+ fico. And I actually tried to get Amex to reaffirm in BK since it was a charge card the Judge was going to allow it with the balance being from an AU. Amex chose not to reaffirm.

2- I was a bit mad when I wrote the comments, but I did not file the complaints because of the decline, I wrote the complaints because of the willful violation of law. Even after I got a call from there EO the rep said she listened to the call and heard the rep tell me I had to pay of the balance and she was transfering me to recovery because I needed to pay of the balance today. Her response was "Thats not a standard practice" didnt even get an appology... Where is the accountability. And to your point, Amex has had something like 3-4 fines and settlements from the CFPB and other regulators in the recent past so should everyone just close there accounts with amex and not do business with them anymore because amex has burned them? No, people give Amex second chances all the time, so why shouldnt they?

3- Not sure how much experience with fair lending some of you have, but the law requires certain things to happen when a company offers credit to customers. One of those things is applicants are treated on an apples to apples basis. By taking a credit application and basing a decision soley on an experience from 5+ years ago with out any new data that is not treating applicants on a consistant basis. IE: If Amex would have pulled credit and declined the credit because of a Bankruptcy listed on my CBR fine, I could live with that. But basing it on anything other than the full picture of my CBR I can't. Some of you will understand that some will not. But when were talking legal aspects all applicants must be treated equally so if you do X for one customer you have to do X for all, not say oops he is blacklisted so were gonna cut him off right away without properly assessing all of the information consistantly.

In regards to #1, the point is if you do owe them money, and you received merchandise or services for it, you should still pay it back even if it doesn't result in getting a card.
On regards to #2 please tell me what law they have broken. It's right there in their agreement "You agree that we will obtain credit reports about you, investigate your ability to pay, and obtain information about you from other sources, including information to verify and re-verify your employment and income. And you agree that we will use such information for any purposes, subject to applicable law

Re: American Express - Declined

Anonymous — Tue, 26 Apr 2016 20:25:30 GMT

All of this information is incorrect.

Re: American Express - Declined

thummel — Tue, 26 Apr 2016 20:32:16 GMT

They can use any information they want when you apply for credit. How is it equal when you have an applicant who paid back Amex and there giving him a second chance but then you have someone who is demanding to be let back in and they have unpaid past debt and they keep getting denied for a reason. It doesn't matter how old the debt is. A debt is a debt it doesn't just go away after a BK and you want to get back in with a paticular lender. Mabye off a credit report but a lender can see if for years in there computers. Especially Amex.

Re: American Express - Declined

Berk — Tue, 26 Apr 2016 20:40:44 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

3- Not sure how much experience with fair lending some of you have, but the law requires certain things to happen when a company offers credit to customers. One of those things is applicants are treated on an apples to apples basis. By taking a credit application and basing a decision soley on an experience from 5+ years ago with out any new data that is not treating applicants on a consistant basis. IE: If Amex would have pulled credit and declined the credit because of a Bankruptcy listed on my CBR fine, I could live with that. But basing it on anything other than the full picture of my CBR I can't. Some of you will understand that some will not. But when were talking legal aspects all applicants must be treated equally so if you do X for one customer you have to do X for all, not say oops he is blacklisted so were gonna cut him off right away without properly assessing all of the information consistantly.

5+ years ago you stole money from them - past experience. New data from you - you haven't returned what you stole. Seems pretty consistent from my view point. Golden Delicious in fact.

Re: American Express - Declined

Anonymous — Tue, 26 Apr 2016 21:08:56 GMT

1- I did not steal from them. I paid back my balance before the BK and an AU used the card the day I filed. I was trying to keep my card with them as I read on several sites if you have a zero balance charge card with them at the time of BK sometimes Amex misses closing it out (like it happened with 2 of my other cards).

2- The law they broke is demanding that I pay them back a debt that was discharged in BK. There are laws that specifically prevent them from requesting that I pay them back a discharged debt.

3- I don't need to get back in with them, the whole point of this post was to show that Amex holds a rather large grudge against a whole lot of people and how aggressive they can be and how once you burn them once they never forgive. At the same time they are alienating people who could be great customers. Remember, I am not the only one in the world who has filed BK, over 1 million people file every year, including celebrities. I personally do not charge things on my credit cards that I can not pay back in full every month.

4- I don't get why you all are attacking me over this. You don't know the situation as to why I filed BK. And lastly as far as fair lending, I have worked in the financial services industry for 10 years. I have had a credit signature and worked within this scope rather extensively and you commpletly dismiss who fair lending is. The bottom line is you have to treat every application consistantly. If you do one thing for one applciation you have to do the same for all applications. In this case that was not done.

Re: American Express - Declined

CreditCuriosity — Tue, 26 Apr 2016 21:34:51 GMT

Why not do what is right and pay them back the $1200, even though you don't have to as they were included in your BK? Ya nothing is guaranteed, but you will sure have alot better chance of getting back with them by paying them back vs. not paying them back as can be seen from the outcome of this. $1200 isn't much money and it is doing the "right" thing. You are right they can't collect from you if you included them in a BK7, but they don't ever have to lend you money again which you are asking them to do. Once again if someone burned you for $1200 ask yourself would you lend them money again if they didn't pay you back? Also they did you a favor by not pulling your credit and basising it off of their internal records. Amex isn't the only lender that has a very long memory.. Others such as Barclay's, Citi, Chase, etc have these memories as well. You also got lucky the other 2 creditors/cc you mentioned didn't shut you down when you filed you BK, if they ever did notice this on a manual review they still could do so.

I don't think you complaints have any merit as all others posters has agreed upon that has read this subject. Although if it makes you feel better filing them then by all means do so as you did.

You make more than myself and I owed what about 25k a few years ago to creditors and never filed BK as first I make to much.. I could of probably waited and buried my head in the sand for the 7 years for everything to fall off, but I decided to settle/pay everything off and it took around a year of trimming the fat on some of my budget. Only a portion of the cards are in my signature that I have all with good credit limits 10-25kish. So doing the right thing sometimes rather painful or not does pay off if you want a certain card or what not

Re: American Express - Declined

Burned2manybridgesB4 — Tue, 26 Apr 2016 21:44:29 GMT

Re: American Express - Declined

Anonymous — Tue, 26 Apr 2016 21:51:21 GMT

The only reason I havent paid them back really is at the advice of my attorney. He indicated that if I pay one back post BK there is some legal ground that I should have paid them all back.

The only reason I filed BK was not that I had to much personal debt rather I co-signed for a business line of credit and business credit card when I was 18 against a trust that I was left. The deal was Id co-sign but I required life and disability insurance incase something happened. Fast forward 5 years later and the $50k (over various lines and cc's) I signed for had bloated to over 400k the family member died, and when I went to cash in the life insurance policy to cover the debts I found out he hadnt paid the premiums in over 6 months. Not knowing anything about the business and realizing what a mistake I had made I went to my family attorney and he basically said that I had to file BK as citi was already coming after the business for an automatic default (dealth of a borrower). I tried to work it out with citi to get sometime to get into the business figure out how to run it properly and stabilize it. But they wouldnt budge. They froze all my personal credit cards and offset the business debts with my personal assets. My lawyer sent them requests trying to figure out how it got so far out of hand because I origionally only signed for $50k and they allowed for increases to credit lines with out any signatures. And they didnt require any you could at that time request cli's right online.

As far as my own debt, ive never had a collection or late payment, I paid off my discover cards right before the BK, and my amex. And reaffirmed everything else. Its why creditors were so willing to relend to me so quickly. I tried to salvage the amex relationship but my AU charged something at the last minute.

So I wasnt running from the debt, Citi took what was left of the trust and offset it with the business debt and that was that. I just feel amex was overly agressive for a company thats known for there excelent customer service. I was very taken back by the experience.

Re: American Express - Declined

dragontears — Tue, 26 Apr 2016 21:53:09 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
1- I did not steal from them. I paid back my balance before the BK and an AU used the card the day I filed. I was trying to keep my card with them as I read on several sites if you have a zero balance charge card with them at the time of BK sometimes Amex misses closing it out (like it happened with 2 of my other cards).
2- The law they broke is demanding that I pay them back a debt that was discharged in BK. There are laws that specifically prevent them from requesting that I pay them back a discharged debt.
3- I don't need to get back in with them, the whole point of this post was to show that Amex holds a rather large grudge against a whole lot of people and how aggressive they can be and how once you burn them once they never forgive. At the same time they are alienating people who could be great customers. Remember, I am not the only one in the world who has filed BK, over 1 million people file every year, including celebrities. I personally do not charge things on my credit cards that I can not pay back in full every month.
4- I don't get why you all are attacking me over this. You don't know the situation as to why I filed BK. And lastly as far as fair lending, I have worked in the financial services industry for 10 years. I have had a credit signature and worked within this scope rather extensively and you commpletly dismiss who fair lending is. The bottom line is you have to treat every application consistantly. If you do one thing for one applciation you have to do the same for all applications. In this case that was not done.

1. you are legally responsible for all charges an AU makes on your account so therefore the charges they made are your responsibility to pay and is your debt

2. legally they can't sue you for the money and just as legally they don't have to give you credit ever again because you never paid them. Their computer system checked their blacklist before pulling credit so you didn't get a HP, are you saying you wanted a HP and a denial instead?

3. Amex is notorious for blacklisting with a 20+ year memory, thanks for adding another data point to support this

4. How do you know that every app is not first checked against an internal blacklist?