topic Re: Horrible AMEX Recon Frustration, Chase was GREAT in Credit Card Applications

Horrible AMEX Recon Frustration, Chase was GREAT

Anonymous — Mon, 20 Nov 2017 23:00:21 GMT

Hey Guys,

Just curious if anyone has had a similar experience with AMEX. I Pre-Qualified today for the AMEX PRG and the AMEX Delta Gold. My Experian FICO8 (actually Experian, not Credit Karma) was a 695. No baddies on the report. Oldest account 4 years, AAoA over 1 year, 3% utilization. 2 credit cards currently, totaling $3000 available CL. I applied first for the PRG, planning to do a double app with a single pull and was approved. Unfortunately, I'm already an AU on another Delta AMEX Reserve, so I didn't really want that Delta Gold card. I instead decided to apply for the AMEX BCE and was declined.

The letter said my credit score was a 691 and gave the following reasons for the decline:

The length of time is too short since the first account on your credit report was opened. (Experian)
The sum of the balances on credit card accounts is high in relation to the sum of their credit limits. This ratio includes only accounts opened in the last six months. (Experian)
The proportion of loan balances to loan amount is too high. (Experian)

So I called up the AMEX Recon Line (the 866-314-0237 number) and spoke with someone who spoke terrible English. I asked to speak to a Credit Analyst and they said they were a credit analyst. I said I didn't understand the decision they gave me because:

The length of time since my first account was opened was May 1, 2013, which is 4 years ago.
The sum of balances of "only accounts opened in the last six months" is 0 because I haven't opened any credit cards or other accounts in the last 6 months.
The proportion of loan balances is high because I bought a new car in May of this year, but I don't feel that should be the only factor that has resulted in a decline.

I explained over and over that something must be wrong and he said he couldn't look at my credit report and that he can submit it for reconsideration and it will take 7-10 business days. I said I wanted to speak with someone who could look at my actual report they pulled because their system must not be reading it correctly and then he told me that the department who reviews those things is not a customer-facing department and I would need to call Experian if something is wrong with my credit report. I know it isn't my Experian report because I pulled it right before making the phone call. We went back and forth for half an hour before I gave up. Has anyone had an experience like this? Any advice on what I should do?

I'm mostly frustrated because normally an experience like this would make me not want to do business with AMEX anymore, but unfortunately, they've got the co-branded cards for Delta and Hilton on lockdown and those are the brands I am loyal to for air travel and hotel stays. -- The icing on the cake is I also had the best experience with Chase. Today, I also decided to apply for the Chase Amazon Prime Visa Signature Card too. Automatically decided. Called the recon line. Talked to a real person I could understand, who could look at my credit report. They asked me some additional questions, I confirmed my credit and mentioned specific things on my report and then a few minutes later, approved with a $1k SL. Very friendly and a great overall experience so this certainly added to my frusteration with AMEX.

Re: Horrible AMEX Recon Frustration, Chase was GREAT

916networktech — Mon, 20 Nov 2017 23:08:36 GMT

Normally the delay from account status to Credit Report is about a couple of months from what I have seen.

I actually seen the opposite in my situaion. Amex has been easy to work with, yes they have indian call center reps, just be respectable and they will do whatever it takes to help you, as opposed to chase. Chase told me to pound sand, Amex gave me 3 different cards.

Re: Horrible AMEX Recon Frustration, Chase was GREAT

Gmood1 — Tue, 21 Nov 2017 02:46:14 GMT

I don't recall seeing anyone successfully recon with Amex. If it does happen, it's rare.
Be patient and use your PRG. Amex will notice and reward you handsomely!
I've been with Chase for 10 years and Amex 2.5 years. Amex has definitely treated me better in the quarter of that time Chase has.
Over all the rates are better as well as the ease of increasing your limits or expanding your relationship. Most of the time without taking HPs.
Amex is more aggressive IME at wanting to retain customers. My last two CC's with them, they 2 day UPS shipped without me asking. I haven't experienced that from any of my other lenders.

Re: Horrible AMEX Recon Frustration, Chase was GREAT

Anonymous — Tue, 21 Nov 2017 03:03:59 GMT

As I've written on these boards a hundred times, the reason codes for denial are not the reasons you were denied. Calling to recon those codes means zilch.

Federal law mandates that any lender performing an adverse action (such as a denial) must issue a reason for that denial. But the law doesn't require they give you the actual reason, just "a reason".

Amex pays FICO for a score and for a list of reasons why a score is low. Then they quote FICO reasons but not real reasons.

You got denied because you don't meet their internal lending requirements which are secret and also protected by law that they don't have to disclose them to you.

Try again in 6 months.

Hating a prime lender for denying you when your scores are not prime scores isn't a valid point. Amex denied me 7 times before they approved me. I knew why they denied me: my profile was weak. I kept trying for 9 years and got in a month ago after fixing my bad credit situation.

Work on your scores some more and in 6 months try again.

Re: Horrible AMEX Recon Frustration, Chase was GREAT

Anonymous — Tue, 21 Nov 2017 03:46:54 GMT

The PRG has a nice sign up bonus. In the worst case scenario it is worth 700 dollars, That Amazon card you have wont give you close to that. I got approved for 4 cards in 2 months with Amex with scores not too much higher than yours, but the 2 credit cards both had limits of 1k. I applied for Chase card and they gave me 25k limit.

Amex might be more conservative but they have great cards and don't have a 5/24 rule.

Re: Horrible AMEX Recon Frustration, Chase was GREAT

Anonymous — Tue, 21 Nov 2017 05:04:45 GMT

And the skill level of their rewards department in giving away free money by mistake is second to none. I love Amex!

Re: Horrible AMEX Recon Frustration, Chase was GREAT

MrDisco99 — Tue, 21 Nov 2017 23:45:45 GMT

Your credit profile is not bad but it's not excellent. You're going to be hit or miss on a first Amex. Yeah they declined the revolver, but they did leave a door open for you with the PRG. Rather than focus on the negative, take this as an opportunity. Get the bonus, establish a good payment history, and try again in a few months. It doesn't take long to get cozy with Amex, and they can be obscenely generous once they decide they like you.

Re: Horrible AMEX Recon Frustration, Chase was GREAT

Ardecko — Wed, 22 Nov 2017 00:00:05 GMT

Did you try AMEX's pre qual tool before you apped? What did it say?

Can you try it now and see?

I'm planning to app AMEX in January, and my report is slightly worse than yours (5yo 120 day lates).

Also, how old are your other cards?

Re: Horrible AMEX Recon Frustration, Chase was GREAT

Anonymous — Wed, 22 Nov 2017 00:12:39 GMT

i was able to get the prg and the bcp on the same day with the same hard pull.

my experience: i first applied for the bce and was put on credit steps with 1k with no offers

three days later i applied for the prg and was approved then i also applied for the bcp and was declined but told to call a number which should be the recon department. when i called they told me i was only denied because bce and bcp are the same card . well i told them because the bce didnt give me any balance transfer, 0% apr thats why i also applied for the bcp because i want some bonus and then they approved me for another 1k and my score was 671 when approved for all three cards but i have high income but i also have lots of baddies but they are mostly 5-6 years old

hope this helps

Re: Horrible AMEX Recon Frustration, Chase was GREAT

Anonymous — Wed, 22 Nov 2017 00:11:11 GMT

@Ardecko wrote:
Did you try AMEX's pre qual tool before you apped? What did it say?

Can you try it now and see?

I'm planning to app AMEX in January, and my report is slightly worse than yours (5yo 120 day lates).

Also, how old are your other cards?

Yes. I Pre-Qualified for the Delta Gold Card, The PRG, and the Green Card. It offers the same cards now. My oldest card was opened May 1, 2013. My second was February 2017.

Re: Horrible AMEX Recon Frustration, Chase was GREAT

Ardecko — Wed, 22 Nov 2017 00:14:56 GMT

Sorry, I missed the part where you said you were prequalified for those while skimming.

Did/does it show bonus offers on those cards?

(A few weeks ago, when I did the prequal for my wife, it showed a couple cards, but no bonus offers, where it does show offers for her now.)

Re: Horrible AMEX Recon Frustration, Chase was GREAT

Anonymous — Wed, 22 Nov 2017 00:17:14 GMT

@Ardecko wrote:
Sorry, I missed the part where you said you were prequalified for those while skimming.

Did/does it show bonus offers on those cards?

(A few weeks ago, when I did the prequal for my wife, it showed a couple cards, but no bonus offers, where it does show offers for her now.)

Delta was 50,000 miles after 1k purchases in 3 months.

PRG was 25,000 MRP after 2k purchases in 3 months.

Green had no offer.

Re: Horrible AMEX Recon Frustration, Chase was GREAT

Anonymous — Wed, 22 Nov 2017 00:19:33 GMT

Thanks for the feedback all. I'm primarily frustrated with the customer service experience of AMEX, not the actual decline because I do agree, my credit isn't astounding by any means. What upset me is that their system gave me reasons for a decline and I couldn't even actually address them with a real person who could review my report and application and make a decision. Instead, I spoke to someone who could only "push it along" and clearly didn't even write down or take notes regarding what I was saying or the points I was making about my application. And this was a world of difference compared to my quite pleasant experience with Chase. Decline or not, it really sucked not being able to talk to a person who could look at my report and allow me to make justifications, etc.

Re: Horrible AMEX Recon Frustration, Chase was GREAT

MrDisco99 — Wed, 22 Nov 2017 00:41:36 GMT

Yeah some banks are better with recons than others. Chase analysts seem to have more leeway around system decisions. Analysts from some other banks can't do much more than just send your app through again. Amex seems to fall into that category. My recon experiences with BoA and Barclays are similar to that. They have a system that makes the decision and there's just not a way to override it.

Re: Horrible AMEX Recon Frustration, Chase was GREAT

kdm31091 — Wed, 22 Nov 2017 01:49:40 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Thanks for the feedback all. I'm primarily frustrated with the customer service experience of AMEX, not the actual decline because I do agree, my credit isn't astounding by any means. What upset me is that their system gave me reasons for a decline and I couldn't even actually address them with a real person who could review my report and application and make a decision. Instead, I spoke to someone who could only "push it along" and clearly didn't even write down or take notes regarding what I was saying or the points I was making about my application. And this was a world of difference compared to my quite pleasant experience with Chase. Decline or not, it really sucked not being able to talk to a person who could look at my report and allow me to make justifications, etc.

Some banks just don't have a lot of leeway with overriding computer decisions. Amex is one of them. While there have been reports of succesful recons, it's rare. Generally they stick to the computer decision, similar to Comenity, Capital One, etc.

As discussed in another thread, banks are generally moving away from the "talk to someone and recon/make justifications" type of model. Many banks are setting guidelines for approval and if you don't meet them, it cannot be overridden. It sucks, but the human element is definitely being removed from many situations. So I would say get used to it; it's not going anywhere, and likely to get more common.