topic Re: Citi Reconsideration in Credit Card Applications

Citi Reconsideration

Lancelot99 — Thu, 17 May 2018 22:33:05 GMT

So I did an app spree recently, my first, and was approved for all but Citi Double Cash. I had just paid off all my balances and waited long enough to report FICO 8 scores of EQ 815, EX 816, TU 823. I applied for Citi first, followed immediately by Chase, Penfed, and Capital One (Venture One). I had read C1 pulls all 3 CRAs so I app'ed C1 last. Citi had a clean slate. I had no inquiries showing at all. I haven't app'd for new credit in almost 10 years.

I had $69,100 available in total credit and was showing a $3 balance total across all cards. Citi did not approve my app but I finally got their letters today. I was actually so surprised by Citi's denial that I actually immediately applied again using their latest pre-selected to apply letter. That's how I got 2 letters from Citi today. :-(

The first letter says: We reviewed your application and can't approve it because of the following reasons: - Your credit report shows no recent revolving balances. - Your credit report reflects a lack of recent installment loan information. It also told me my credit score was a 813 and their credit scores range from 250 to 900.

The second letter says: You have submitted multiple applications for credit.

How I got here. I had burned Citi back in 2006 maybe, a CO for maybe a couple of thousand. I had a couple of med coll's fall off last year and those were paid. My score started to climb and I got into the habit of paying a day or two before the due date so the lowest balance possible was showing, i.e. my new purchases were getting paid off along with some of my old debt. I waited for the scores to rise and double checked them all before applying. I do not have any installment loans: no mortgage, no car loans.

So here are my Qs:

1) I really want to recon Citi because I actually wanted this the most. I did a search and find no recon's like mine, with scores in the 800s and declined for no recent revolving balances. They're saying I don't use my credit but I definitely did until I finally paid everything off. I pulled my free Experian report off of AnnualCreditReport.com a day ago and it shows some of the cards used to carry balances before I paid them off. 6 months ago, I was still carrying like $5-6k across all cards. How do I approach this? I need to find the thread with the back door number and just plead my case. There's no template, right? And I can't find other situations like mine...

2) Might Citi's denial be code for "you burned us 12 years ago and now you can't have our card"? That definitely crossed my mind. I read Citi has a memory. No mention of it in the denial though.

3) So a pre-selected to apply letter is different than a pre-approval letter. That was just a stupid miss by me. I haven't applied for a new card in 10 years and I failed to notice. Not really a Q, just a note about my lack of experience.

4) I have 30 days to recon from the date of decline, right? And Citi uses a 250 to 900 credit scale? So 813 out of 900 actually doesn't sound that great. I thought all FICO scores were on a 300 to 850 scale.

Thanks for all your thoughts and comments ahead of time. I'd like to recon Citi ASAP so your advice is much appreciated.

Re: Citi Reconsideration

Gmood1 — Sun, 27 Jan 2019 03:26:39 GMT

Hopefully someone has a back door number for Citi and will post it. Sorry to read of your denial.
Plenty of us here have burned Citi in the past and were allowed back in, me being one of them.
From your description, it sounds like you were using that AZEO technique to boost your scores?

Citi uses the FICO 8 banckcard scoring model. Your scores are more than fine.

I've mentioned this before, that AZEO isn't a credit builder. Please, please allow more than $3 to report across your accounts if you want the banks to take you seriously.
I'd suggest allowing your balances to report naturally unless your utilization will be over 29% on one CC. 1 to 9% across all revolving accounts is the sweet spot.
The banks seem to be catching on slowly to folks trying to manipulate their scores. In a manual review, $3 reporting on nearly $70k revolving doesn't look good. It doesn't make you look like someone who uses their CCs. Which makes it not worth the banks time to issue you their card.
Scores alone do not make you a prime candidate.
Showing them you aren't afraid to use CCs and manage them properly will have a much, more favorable outcome with these banks. Than getting wrapped up in a few points gained from allowing $3 to report across all of your accounts.
Here's a link to the sticky in this sub forum https://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Credit-Card-Applications/Backdoor-Numbers/td-p/408066 . I don't know how up to date these numbers are.
Congrats on your other approvals.

Re: Citi Reconsideration

Anonymous — Fri, 18 May 2018 02:18:43 GMT

Citi EO direct line is 605 331 1698.

I applied for AA Biz last week and got denied; slow / late payment?? which I could not find on my CR. Called EO for recon and she called me back two days later to inform me the app was approved. Very friendly preson....

Re: Citi Reconsideration

Lancelot99 — Fri, 18 May 2018 02:53:33 GMT

I thought it was because I burned them but there's no mention of it in their denial letter. I guess I should just take it at face value and it is because they think I don't use the CCs enough. I really do though. It has been at least 12 years now since I burned Citi. I was reading for Citi, it's usually about 10.

I had no idea what AZEO was until I Googled it. You've always been great sharing knowledge like this since I started posting. I learn new stuff every time I read your posts. :-)

Yes, I didn't think it was the scores. 800+ by any measure seems to be pretty good. Just weird to me that they were on a 300 to 900 scale.

To be honest, I was trying to get $0 to report, haha! The $3 was an accident. It was the last interest charge from the last card I paid off. It was unexpected, LOL.

I charged about $3000 this month. Do you think I should I let it show up before calling the recon line?

Yes, I saw this link. I wondered if these numbers were current and which Citi number to call. There's so many!

Thanks!

Re: Citi Reconsideration

Lancelot99 — Fri, 18 May 2018 02:55:27 GMT

Thank you for the number. I wonder what people did before the internet and friendly people like you would share invaluable information like this? Thanks, very grateful!

Re: Citi Reconsideration

Gmood1 — Fri, 18 May 2018 14:06:43 GMT

Lol, from now on allow your usage to report is my advice. Pay it off after the statement cuts, if it makes you feel better. Or let it ride untill right before due date and initiate auto pay. Either way it's paid on time.
If something hadn't reported. You'd have taken a credit score hit. Your scores are penalized when all CCs report zero balances. This credit stuff works just the opposite of what you'd think. 
Your CR's need a heartbeat. Without usage/blood flow it will slowly die.

You have a small window in order to Recon. Chances are they'll use the pull they already have.
The system may have auto denied you the second time. You can only app once in 8 days I believe with Citi. Please, someone can correct me if I'm wrong. I know there's a time frame. No more than two Citi CCs in 65 days allowed.
Please call and explain your case. Hopefully a human will over turn the first denial.
I burned Citi 9 years ago. It hasn't held me back much, if at all.

Re: Citi Reconsideration

Anonymous — Fri, 18 May 2018 13:56:33 GMT

Sorry to hear you were denied for the Citi DC; as others have suggested you should recon the denial.

.I also second Gmood1's suggestion about letting balances report naturally. You can still avoid paying interest by paying the full balance by the due date if that's the concern you're addressing by pre-paying. The only caveat is that you should not let more than 50 percent of your cards report balances or your scores will be penalized and a negative code "Too many accounts reporting balances" will appear on your credit report.

Fortunately, utilization has no memory and as you pay off the reported balances you will recover the lost points and the reason code will be removed, if it ever occurs.

Good luck with your recon.

Re: Citi Reconsideration

Lancelot99 — Fri, 18 May 2018 21:44:15 GMT

So I want to be clear on this because all my current CCs work this way. For example, Discover's due date is the 2nd, the statement closing date is the 6th. Pay the minimum on the 1st and then the balance charged last month on the 7th?

What I had been doing was paying off all new charges and whatever I could afford on the 1st and then refraining from charging anything until the evening of the 6th so the lowest amount possible amount was reporting since the reporting was happening on the 6th, the same as the statement closing date. I figured I wouldn't get charged interest this way and it would show the lowest utilization possible. For the zero balance cards, I would use them and then pay them off by the due date. This way I thought I was utilizing the float and not paying any interest AND showing low utilization. Perhaps I misunderstand how long the float is or you're saying it's worth it to pay a single day's worth of interest?

It does make sense that they want to see utilization of some kind. I just thought the HPs of the CRs showed the usage and the important thing was to not be late.

I'm going to recon today.

Yes, I thought the time for Citi to get over it was about 10 years and I'm at 12. Citi only seems to HP 1 CRA and here it looks like they only pulled Experian. I was willing to take the chance of a single HP but I figured the denial would be because I burned them and not because it looks like I don't use the cards enough.

Thanks so much!

Re: Citi Reconsideration

Lancelot99 — Fri, 18 May 2018 21:44:47 GMT

It does make sense that they want to see utilization of some kind. I just thought the HPs of the CRs showed the usage and the important thing was to not be late.

I'm going to recon today.

Thanks so much!

Re: Citi Reconsideration

Lancelot99 — Fri, 18 May 2018 21:47:47 GMT

I do have some confusion about the balances reporting. The reporting dates are always a few days after the due dates. So I'm only paying the minimum on the due date and the balance after closing?

I have 6 cards. With your advice, I should only 3 report a balance? I do that now already. I spread the usage around.

Then total utilization should be between 1-9% across all 6 cards and on each card individually?

Re: Citi Reconsideration

Gmood1 — Fri, 18 May 2018 22:11:09 GMT

Understand, as long as you pay your statement balance by due date. You won't be charged interest.
Avoid paying interest as much as possible.

I was referring to your total utilization being 1-9%. Not necessarily each card having to be in that range.
The last thing I'd want anyone to do is overly micromanage their accounts.
You normally have 25 days from the statement date to pay your balances without a interest penalty..

Use the float to your advantage. I normally don't concern myself with how many CCs report. The couple of points that bounce up and down are insignificant. Especially with scores 750 and up.
Unless it's something you like to do. Just use your CCs normally and set your auto pay on each to pay the statement balance.

You can build credit without the hoop jumping. Allow those CCs to work for you. Use them to YOUR advantage.

Re: Citi Reconsideration

Lancelot99 — Wed, 23 May 2018 17:08:19 GMT

So, just to close the loop on this.

Citi called me back this morning and continued with their denial. My scores at the time of the pull were 826, 825, and 816, with 1% utilization. C1 gave me $20k and Chase $17.1k during this spree.

Consider this a lesson learned by me to show balances on the statement in order to show more significant utilization.

The recon lady was very nice but could not advise me when to apply again. I asked her what she would do personally because she mentioned she had a Citi DC card and she said she usually waits 6 months to show utilization before applying for a card.

I guess that sounds about right but wondered if you all think I need to wait 6 months from now to apply for Citi again. How long must I really wait?

Re: Citi Reconsideration

FinStar — Wed, 23 May 2018 17:24:17 GMT

6 months, as suggested, if not longer now that you have added some new accounts to your profile. The new accounts will be factored the next time you apply, but as anything, YEMV.

It could be doable at that point if you follow the advice that folks have provided upthread.

Re: Citi Reconsideration

Lancelot99 — Wed, 23 May 2018 17:44:00 GMT

I'll follow your advice and hold off until end of the year, early next year, at the least.

I had a simpleton's understanding of utilization, trying to maximize my scores by showing as little utilization as possible. I understand it's more nuanced than that now and the credit is like a living organism, with normal ebbs and flows, depending on current usage. This was my first spree and I haven't applied for a new card in well over a decade. I thought I did my research, educating myself, but clearly there's more to learn.

I'm guessing it helped with C1 and Chase that I already bank with them but have no relationship with Citi since I burned them a decade ago.

Thanks!

Re: Citi Reconsideration

FinStar — Wed, 23 May 2018 17:56:38 GMT

You got it.

Typically, once you've had some form of lending relationship with the issuer, it becomes more flexible to secure an approval (provided the profile supports it which in your case was a great outcome with Chase and Capital One). Some of the "behind the scenes" is derived from an internal or bevavioral score.

The same would occur once you are approved for your first Citi card and any additional CC products thereafter.

Re: Citi Reconsideration

Anonymous — Wed, 02 Jan 2019 16:28:15 GMT

I'd just like to throw in my data points, because oddly enough I was going through a very similar mindset and circumstance. All my baddies have just dropped off and my scores have all but broken into the 800s. I have been patient and diligent and wanted to make sure everything was set up and on point for AOR that I have been waiting years for.

I too set my eyes on Citi DC. No real hopes of me getting into Chase, but Citi, I definitely got a shot at. I must have so many letters from them and the AAdvantage card throwing themselves offering me miles and rewards and APRs that are quite nice. I thought I was a shoo-in and that I had a whale on the line, just had to reel him in.

The day after Christmas I was going to make my move. Scores in the circa 800 range, no applications in about a year, utilization in the 5-6% range, no missed payments, not a speck on them, they were pristine as far as I can tell.

I sat down and went straight to the Citi app. I knew, much like the OP that it would be a hell of an adrenaline rush -- a rollercoaster ride that had been many years in the making. The long back and forth with the Bills and Judies in collections and the mailing off of letters with those miserable stickers on them saying they were certified. It was gonna be worth it all.

With my eye on the prize, I sat down, and shot off the first app. The PC I was on hung a little and it was excruciating watching the little circle spin and spin and .. Denied. I couldn't believe it. I was in total and utter shock. I thought for sure I must have typed in something wrong. So I went right to the Citi AAdvantage card, the one that I had been pre-approved for time and time again evidenced by the mountain of mail from Citibank begging me to open this card, and I typed in the code and ... denied, again, this time instantly.

I was pissed. I then went on to do PenFed, USAA, US Bank... nabbing their top cards each for 27,000k SL. A 50k car loan? Sure, what the hell. I didn't even know I was in the market to buy a car but I was angry. In the end, I got almost 200,000 in credit extended to me, and not a single penny from Citibank.

The letters - I had to read the letters, it became an obsession. When they finally came, I calmly waited until I got back from the mailbox before tearing into them, surely there was a misunderstanding. Something had to have gone wrong.

Both letters say the exact same thing. And I'm convinced that Citibank is being run by a bunch of 14 year olds sitting at a desk just laughing at us all. Cruel little bastards.

Both letters said the exact same thing. Gave the exact same reason.

Both of them said I had submitted multiple applications for credit and they could not approve me. For one of them to say it, that would make sense, that would be ok.. but both? No, that's just straight up cruelty.

Re: Citi Reconsideration

Anonymous — Wed, 02 Jan 2019 23:36:21 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I'd just like to throw in my data points, because oddly enough I was going through a very similar mindset and circumstance. All my baddies have just dropped off and my scores have all but broken into the 800s. I have been patient and diligent and wanted to make sure everything was set up and on point for AOR that I have been waiting years for.

I too set my eyes on Citi DC. No real hopes of me getting into Chase, but Citi, I definitely got a shot at. I must have so many letters from them and the AAdvantage card throwing themselves offering me miles and rewards and APRs that are quite nice. I thought I was a shoo-in and that I had a whale on the line, just had to reel him in.

The day after Christmas I was going to make my move. Scores in the circa 800 range, no applications in about a year, utilization in the 5-6% range, no missed payments, not a speck on them, they were pristine as far as I can tell.

I sat down and went straight to the Citi app. I knew, much like the OP that it would be a hell of an adrenaline rush -- a rollercoaster ride that had been many years in the making. The long back and forth with the Bills and Judies in collections and the mailing off of letters with those miserable stickers on them saying they were certified. It was gonna be worth it all.

With my eye on the prize, I sat down, and shot off the first app. The PC I was on hung a little and it was excruciating watching the little circle spin and spin and .. Denied. I couldn't believe it. I was in total and utter shock. I thought for sure I must have typed in something wrong. So I went right to the Citi AAdvantage card, the one that I had been pre-approved for time and time again evidenced by the mountain of mail from Citibank begging me to open this card, and I typed in the code and ... denied, again, this time instantly.

I was pissed. I then went on to do PenFed, USAA, US Bank... nabbing their top cards each for 27,000k SL. A 50k car loan? Sure, what the hell. I didn't even know I was in the market to buy a car but I was angry. In the end, I got almost 200,000 in credit extended to me, and not a single penny from Citibank.

The letters - I had to read the letters, it became an obsession. When they finally came, I calmly waited until I got back from the mailbox before tearing into them, surely there was a misunderstanding. Something had to have gone wrong.

Both letters say the exact same thing. And I'm convinced that Citibank is being run by a bunch of 14 year olds sitting at a desk just laughing at us all. Cruel little bastards.

Both letters said the exact same thing. Gave the exact same reason.

Both of them said I had submitted multiple applications for credit and they could not approve me. For one of them to say it, that would make sense, that would be ok.. but both? No, that's just straight up cruelty.

Thats funny, Ive had the same experience as you and OP. App'd and scores were About ~800 no baddies, no lates, no bk, and no approval lol. I make 6 figures and have 2 cards w them now (expedia ty & bestbuy) that I max out a few times a month 10k+ and PIF prior to bill closing. Still wouldnt budge on a business card- reason being too many recent Inquiries. I accredit NFCU for running 10 inquiries at the time for CLI's I thought they were SP's but apparently they run my reports everytime now haha.

Re: Citi Reconsideration

Anonymous — Sun, 27 Jan 2019 01:57:40 GMT

Thats funny, Ive had the same experience as you and OP. App'd and scores were About ~800 no baddies, no lates, no bk, and no approval lol. I make 6 figures and have 2 cards w them now (expedia ty & bestbuy) that I max out a few times a month 10k+ and PIF prior to bill closing. Still wouldnt budge on a business card- reason being too many recent Inquiries. I accredit NFCU for running 10 inquiries at the time for CLI's I thought they were SP's but apparently they run my reports everytime now haha.

Yes, NFCU is my undoing too. Great bank, one of the few I don't actively loathe but they too will check my report 10 times for a CLI. I guess there's a whole science to the process of timing it with your ARs.

In going through your signature, we're almost credit twins. Substitute my JCrew card for your Banana Republic and we're pracitcally identical.

Re: Citi Reconsideration

SFLSpotter9210 — Sun, 27 Jan 2019 02:11:32 GMT

I recently applied for Citi Rewards+ card on 1/17, and Citi Double Cash 1/21, and Citi Simplicity on 1/25. Was instantly approved for the first 2, but 7-10 notice on 3 rd due to not knowing or being a member on this forum. Well now I know. But still haven’t received my denial letter yet. On a positive note received my Rewards+ card today and broke it in at Capital Grille. Good luck with your recon.

Re: Citi Reconsideration

Pikaboo-icu — Sun, 27 Jan 2019 02:58:32 GMT

@SFLSpotter9210 wrote:
sorry for the repeat not used to this forum yet.

Don't feel bad, I'm more than used to the site and I still do it from time to time. Facepalm.gif

@AchievingDreams Sorry for the denial but that was an awesome read..

So sorry to those above that got denied for Citi! I'm rather befuzzled by it. Pickles.gif

I had way less of a profile but I app'd for Citi Costco first. "Twas approved and now I have prequals for several other Citi cards. Too bad I don't need any more cards! (Trying reconvince myself here).

I believe the Costco is easier for UW.

Anyway- sorry..