topic Re: PenFed Pathfinder Denied with 750 CS? in Credit Card Applications

PenFed Pathfinder Denied with 750 CS?

Anonymous — Tue, 01 Oct 2019 05:36:25 GMT

So I applied to the PenFed Pathfinder and, much to my surprise, I was denied the card. The reason was because of "Utilization of accounts, number of accounts, and/or occurrence of a derogatory event." However, I have no derogatory events. I only have two other accounts (Capital One and Barclays). I'm not sure how I would be misusing these accounts? I tried calling PenFed for more info, but the person who answered was about as helpful as a wet cinderblock.

I inquire about this issue here not only to vent my frustration with PenFed, but I am curious as to what else I should be looking into when applying for CCs. I don't want to have a hard pull on my line only to get denied. The only thing I can think of is that I have a low income (I am a grad student and make less than $30k/year). However, I believe I should still qualify for having the at least the lowest line, which is $5k (one of my cards has $3.9k). I am fortunate enough to have no debt, and I have never made a late payment.

So, is there something else I'm missing? Do I literally have to wait until I'm not a grad student before I can start using the CCs I am interested in? Not sure it's worth pointing out, but my Equifax score that was given the HP actually read a credit score of 769, which was unexpectedly higher than my score on Credit Karma of 750. (Although now due to the hard pull, it is lower than 750..) Should I be alarmed in any way that my Equifax score and my Credit Karma score are apparently not aligned?

Another aspect of this issue worth pointing out is that several weeks ago, someone was able to hack into my Capital One info (which is weird because I rarely use the card and never carry it around with me anyway). I was able to cancel it right away (a couple hours after the purchase), get the ~$100 that was stolen refunded, and get issued a new card, no problem. However, I did not think this incident would have affected my odds of getting approved? Or does it?

Also-- I did recently open a new checking account, which did a hard pull. Since it wasn't a new CC, I didn't think it would affect my chances for approval. However, if it does, I would be happy to know for the future.

Thank you in advance!

Re: PenFed Pathfinder Denied with 750 CS?

addicted_to_credit — Tue, 01 Oct 2019 07:53:29 GMT

Welcome!

Can you give more DP’s(data points)? Age of the 2 you currently have, number of inquiry’s ... etc.. PenFed is a more conservative cu and can be funky to get in with. From what I’ve seen around here they seem to prefer higher incomes. A hard pull is the price you pay for applying for credit, win or lose it’s there for 24 months and there’s nothing you can do about it. Credit karma scores are vantage scores and are garbage and are not your “real scores”. FICO scores are what the majority of lenders use. From what I can tell it looks like you have a thin file, just started using credit maybe 1-2 years? Weather or not fraud on an account happens shouldn’t have any impact on your scores, provided it’s caught in time and not reporting a maxed out limit. As far as the inq for the checking account a lender can’t tell what it was you got the inquiry for only that it’s there with the exception of an auto loan and mortgage and that’s only if it’s coded as one or the other. For example capital one auto finance comes up on my report as a car loan inquiry and USAA which was also an auto loan inquiry just comes up as an inquiry for credit cards. I would suggest you use the prequalify links for:
Amex - wouldn’t expect more than a 1k starting limit but they can grow quickly
BB&T - if you live in their footprint it’s usually a soft pull
Discover- they usually like thin files
Chase - sensitive to inq’s and new accounts and not necessarily thin file friendly
Citi- can be sensitive to inq’s not sure about thin files
Petal - kinda new I think and haven’t seen much on them but they have a pre qual
If you have Apple products you can look in to the Apple card it’s a soft pull at first if they make an offer and you accept you’ll get a hard pull.

If they all fail then you may want to spend some time gardening what you have or look into secured cards. Definitely look into Amex and discover and let us know..

Re: PenFed Pathfinder Denied with 750 CS?

Raisondetre — Tue, 01 Oct 2019 08:04:47 GMT

How new are your two credit cards?
Are you a Penfed member?
What is the utilization on your cards?

Credit card companies/banks don't just look at score when approving or denying, they look at your credit file. Your score is fine but you have something Penfed isn't liking right now in your credit file. When you called them, what exactly did they say? They can be pretty conservative at times.

Also, Credit Karma doesn't matter because it's a vantage score (FAKO), never judge your score on that number. Credit Karma only has one use and that's to monitor your credit reports. FICO score is what you always want to look at.

Re: PenFed Pathfinder Denied with 750 CS?

AllZero — Tue, 01 Oct 2019 08:42:02 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
So I applied to the PenFed Pathfinder and, much to my surprise, I was denied the card. The reason was because of "Utilization of accounts, number of accounts, and/or occurrence of a derogatory event." However, I have no derogatory events. I only have two other accounts (Capital One and Barclays). I'm not sure how I would be misusing these accounts? I tried calling PenFed for more info, but the person who answered was about as helpful as a wet cinderblock.
What is your current individual and aggregate utilization %? Is it high?
Number of accounts, perhaps your file is too thin?
I'm not sure of derogatory events. Have you gone over your credit reports in detail?
I prefer wet cinderblock over dry cinderblock. Dry cinderblock lack humor and...well...moistness.

I inquire about this issue here not only to vent my frustration with PenFed, but I am curious as to what else I should be looking into when applying for CCs. I don't want to have a hard pull on my line only to get denied. The only thing I can think of is that I have a low income (I am a grad student and make less than $30k/year). However, I believe I should still qualify for having the at least the lowest line, which is $5k (one of my cards has $3.9k). I am fortunate enough to have no debt, and I have never made a late payment.
You have a decent score and no debt. What about rent, mortgage, etc?
Credit Unions do look at your income and DTI Debt To Income %. Have you done the calculation?

So, is there something else I'm missing? Do I literally have to wait until I'm not a grad student before I can start using the CCs I am interested in? Not sure it's worth pointing out, but my Equifax score that was given the HP actually read a credit score of 769, which was unexpectedly higher than my score on Credit Karma of 750. (Although now due to the hard pull, it is lower than 750..) Should I be alarmed in any way that my Equifax score and my Credit Karma score are apparently not aligned?
As mentioned up thread, Credit Karma scores are not relevant. CK is a great tool for credit report monitoring. PenFed pulled your EQ FICO 9 score. You can find your 3 bureau FICO 8 scores at creditchecktotal.com (part of Experian) for $1. Cancel in 7 days or less to avoid the re-occurring charge. Different lenders use different FICO scores to gauge your credit worthiness. No reason to be alarmed. You just have to be prepared before applying for credit, knowing who pulls what.

Another aspect of this issue worth pointing out is that several weeks ago, someone was able to hack into my Capital One info (which is weird because I rarely use the card and never carry it around with me anyway). I was able to cancel it right away (a couple hours after the purchase), get the ~$100 that was stolen refunded, and get issued a new card, no problem. However, I did not think this incident would have affected my odds of getting approved? Or does it?

Also-- I did recently open a new checking account, which did a hard pull. Since it wasn't a new CC, I didn't think it would affect my chances for approval. However, if it does, I would be happy to know for the future.
You'll be able to find out what bureau said bank/CU pulled when you get your credit report. PenFed did not cite inquiries as a reason for denial when they pulled your EQ report. I think you're safe there.

Thank you in advance!

See comments in red.

You might be receiving an email survey from PenFed. You can respond to it. Ask for a reconsideration. Plead your case and hopefully you will be pleasantly surprised.

Re: PenFed Pathfinder Denied with 750 CS?

AverageJoesCredit — Tue, 01 Oct 2019 12:46:39 GMT

In my experience, with Penfed, score , whether Fako or Fico, is almost meaningless to them. Your income is fine though PF like higher income folks more imo but again i dont think thats your issue either. Something about your profile they dont like. Recon is a possibilty though so you might give it a try.

Re: PenFed Pathfinder Denied with 750 CS?

Anonymous — Tue, 01 Oct 2019 13:03:37 GMT

I agree with the others, we need some more DPs about your current credit.

If you still feel that you have a chance, PenFed let's you recon through a letter, info here: https://www.penfed.org/loan-application-reconsideration

Just know PenFed is not easy to get in with. I was denied for the Pathfinder card in March when I had 2/12 (also 2/6) and a credit score of 750. Recon was denied also. Mine was due to my personal income being too low (they did not accept household income at the time), and my income was $40,000

Re: PenFed Pathfinder Denied with 750 CS?

Anonymous — Tue, 01 Oct 2019 17:36:24 GMT

Thank you all for the help. As for a recon, is there any downside in doing this? Will there be another hard pull with the potential of being denied again?

Also, I have not received a survey yet. Should I wait until I get an email regarding that to submit a recon request? Or, should I just send a letter to the address at https://www.penfed.org/loan-application-reconsideration? I assume the first option with the survey would be preferable, since the letter option doesn't have any application form to fill out?

(The average age of my two accounts is just under 2 years, so perhaps that was another ding to my potential for an account.)

Another thing I should mention is that I have not opened up a Savings account with PenFed, yet for the Pathfinder, I know that you need one. I assumed I would have been approved for the card first and then be asked to open an account. However, is it possible that perhaps I was denied because I did not have a Savings account beforehand?

Re: PenFed Pathfinder Denied with 750 CS?

FinStar — Tue, 01 Oct 2019 23:01:31 GMT

Typically, if your application hinged on being approved, the savings account would've been the next conditional requirement as part of the process. So, not having it set up from the get-go was not the primary reasons for being declined.

You can try writing them or waiting for a survey (if it's ever generated since that's not always the case) to see whether your application merits a secondary review.
Personally, given the outcome, I'd explore other options since the PenFed of today is not the same UW-wise as in previous years.

Re: PenFed Pathfinder Denied with 750 CS?

Anonymous — Wed, 02 Oct 2019 05:37:22 GMT

Is there any downside to doing a recon letter? For instance, will my credit line get a hard pull again?

The main case I can see for recon is if I specify that I'm a grad student in the letter or survey or whatever. In the actual application, I put that I'm employed, so maybe that part had a negative impact? (I've always thought of grad school as a weird limbo between a real-world job and an academic student life, but I never anticipated that not being able to distinguish such on a CC application might affect the outcome.)

Thanks again,

Re: PenFed Pathfinder Denied with 750 CS?

Anonymous — Wed, 02 Oct 2019 06:15:53 GMT

Reason codes can be tricky. When you app is rejected it just usually populates with whatever reason codes is affecting your score.

First thing was utilization. When you applied what was the last reported balance? Tip for the future, before you apply for anything pay your cards down before you app. Since you only have two cards I would pay one to zero before app'ing, but don't just pay them down. Pay them down and wait for the balances to report to the credit bureaus.

Second reason given is tricky. According to you it was "number of accounts, and/or occurrence of a derogatory event." They are not saying you have derogatory event. Remember the "and/or". It's your number of accounts. You only have two cards. The Pathdinder is harder to get than others. I believe the "Promise" card is easier to get,

my advice is forget Penfed. Your file is too thin.

Go to the American Express site and try the prequalification link. You should qualify for a few cards.

Next try Discover.
Chill out with those two cards for a year then you can look to expand. Good luck.

Re: PenFed Pathfinder Denied with 750 CS?

Anonymous — Wed, 02 Oct 2019 14:06:04 GMT

I'm not sure if it will be another HP. When I reconned in March, they used the same HP, but I feel like they've been more HP-happy these days. If you don't want to risk the chance of another HP, then I would just leave it be.

Re: PenFed Pathfinder Denied with 750 CS?

Anonymous — Sun, 06 Oct 2019 16:44:43 GMT

Don't feel bad. I too was turned down and my scores are 774, 778, and 787. My income is $840,000 a year.

The reason I was turned down is due to the fact I was issued two new cards, one from Citi and a Propel card from Wells Fargo in the last month. Both with very high credit limits. I also have 63 credit cards with my utilization at 1% total, no one card is higher then 3%.

My first turn down in over 10 years. Such is life I guess.

Re: PenFed Pathfinder Denied with 750 CS?

CreditInspired — Sun, 06 Oct 2019 21:22:04 GMT

Hi OP and welcome

What is the UT on each of your cards?

Re: PenFed Pathfinder Denied with 750 CS?

Anonymous — Sun, 06 Oct 2019 23:02:05 GMT

@mark3038 That is interesting, thank you for sharing. Having an income that high must create its own challenges I cannot imagine. You have my deepest sympathies.

@CreditInspired My utilization is always less than 10%. I always pay off my card by the time I have a charge over $150 or so (a couple times a month).

I will send a recon request email once I actually get the physical letter, which hasn't yet arrived. Is there a point in waiting for the phtysical letter, or will it contain the exact same info as the online request?

The two main points I will bring up is that 1) I am a student (hopefully that will be in better light than being an employee), and 2) I did have another hard inquiry earlier in September, but that was to open an unrelated checking account, and so I just want to mention that in case they think that hard inquiry was for a credit card.

Re: PenFed Pathfinder Denied with 750 CS?

Anonymous — Mon, 14 Oct 2019 04:02:14 GMT

So I sent my letter and my documents (with a hand-written signature and all) via email, got a reply saying I would hear back in 24 - 48 hours, and then.. denied. And, the letter I got sent was the exact same one as the first letter, which makes me think they didn't even read my documents. (In fact, the date is even from the same day.)

Ah well. I'm more upset at myself that I spent my time on this card.

Hope you all have better luck!

Re: PenFed Pathfinder Denied with 750 CS?

AllZero — Mon, 14 Oct 2019 04:46:50 GMT

Thanks for the follow post.

That's unfortunate you were not able to overturn the denial.

Were you able to obtain membership? If so, I would recommend sticking around with Penfed. Hopefully, as you build up some history, it will improve your standing with them and increase your odds at another CC application.