topic Re: Heartbreak with AMEX Marriot Bonvoy Brilliant - Denial in Credit Card Applications

Heartbreak with AMEX Marriot Bonvoy Brilliant - Denial

Anonymous — Wed, 27 Nov 2019 09:03:11 GMT

Applied and was promptly denied for Marriot Bonvoy Brilliant with SP from 11/20 showing EX 704.

Incredibly bummed about this one, as this was always the goal card for me and wanted a SUB to go after for holiday spend. A little suprised too, as I patiently waited to get past 2/90. Should've trusted the pre-approval vanishing despite increasing scores.

Reasons Given:

1) The length of time you have been a customer with American Express is too short.

2) The balances on your credit card accounts are high in relation to their credit limits, as reflected in your credit report.

DP's

- Overall utilization 11%

- 7 cards reporting a balance (totaling roughly $7,500/$69,000) -1 card over 50%, 4 cards over 30%, 3 under 30%.

- AMEX Member since 8/26/2019, second card (business) approved 10/6, and was pre-approved about 3-4 weeks ago for this exact card.

- Score has risen dramatically since first approval and utilization shrinking steadily.

- Amex personal Hilton with heavy spend and pay in full over the last 3 months.

Have a 12 month 0% APR balance transfer offer on my BofA cash rewards with $6300 limit so I plan to consolidate some card balances without exceeding 30% UTI on that card and then I will have only 5 cards with balances all under 30%.

Any thoughts/advice would be helpful.

Will likely garden and pay down but a higher limit balance transfer card would help out a lot.

Re: Heartbreak with AMEX Marriot Bonvoy Brilliant - Denial

Brian_Earl_Spilner — Wed, 27 Nov 2019 13:19:23 GMT

What were your datapoints 2 months ago? They use old SP data. You could try reconning with a HP.

Re: Heartbreak with AMEX Marriot Bonvoy Brilliant - Denial

AverageJoesCredit — Wed, 27 Nov 2019 14:48:32 GMT

My advice is same as other thread. Take a break . Too many Amex cards in only 3 months Amex history is too many for non established history.

Re: Heartbreak with AMEX Marriot Bonvoy Brilliant - Denial

Anonymous — Wed, 27 Nov 2019 15:12:20 GMT

Are you carrying a balance on your existing AMEX card(s)?

Remember, AMEX loves transactors - meaning you use their card and then PIF. You’re carrying some balances that show high utilization. Couple that with a lack of history with AMEX and you may continue to see denials from them until both history and utilization improve.

Re: Heartbreak with AMEX Marriot Bonvoy Brilliant - Denial

Remedios — Wed, 27 Nov 2019 15:28:52 GMT

My thought is that they gave you two cards in three months. Now you need to give them some payment history in those accounts, while tending to the rest of your profile
I really think it's quite unreasonable expectation that any lender will issue you a card every month or so

And it's not just Amex. You've been very active (credit seeking) and it's really time to slow your roll.
There are two ways that happens, either you voluntarily spend some time app free, or lenders start putting the breaks on.
You got plenty of advice about that in other threads, it's up to you how you want to proceed.

Re: Heartbreak with AMEX Marriot Bonvoy Brilliant - Denial

CreditCuriosity — Wed, 27 Nov 2019 15:31:55 GMT

@Remedios wrote:
My thought is that they gave you two cards in three months. Now you need to give them some payment history in those accounts, while tending to the rest of your profile
I really think it's quite unreasonable expectation that any lender will issue you a card every month or so

And it's not just Amex. You've been very active (credit seeking) and it's really time to slow your roll.
There are two ways that happens, either you voluntarily spend some time app free, or lenders start putting the breaks on.
You got plenty of advice about that in other threads, it's up to you how you want to proceed.

What she said... You are asking alot from Amex in a very short time.. Give it time they don't know you well yet....

Re: Heartbreak with AMEX Marriot Bonvoy Brilliant - Denial

Anonymous — Wed, 27 Nov 2019 16:50:10 GMT

I think some of you Have got me confused with someone else. “Plenty of advice in other threads”, “very active credit seeking”.

Literally not a single person has told me to “slow my roll” because I haven’t been applying for anything in months. And if credit seeking is is three new accounts in the last 6 months then some of you have a real problem.

I’m sincerely offended by some of your comments and feel far less enthusiastic about this group; awesome that the sentiment is let’s kick a guy while he is down and provide no useful advice.

It is clear that some of you make recommendations without knowing at all who you are talking to or even reading the original post fully.

Very disappointed by some “mega/frequent contributors And community leaders” I’d expect a little more from ya’ll.

Anyways, I appreciate the responses none the less. And I agree that it was too much from Amex too soon.

Other than that, wish I hadn’t posted lol.

Re: Heartbreak with AMEX Marriot Bonvoy Brilliant - Denial

Anonymous — Wed, 27 Nov 2019 16:34:35 GMT

Maybe wait until you’ve been with them for 6 months then reassess the situation? Sorry about the denial.

Re: Heartbreak with AMEX Marriot Bonvoy Brilliant - Denial

Anonymous — Wed, 27 Nov 2019 16:47:14 GMT

Thank you CS,

I’m definitely not apping anymore. Until well into next year.

I’ll let my perfect payment history, high spend and PIF with Amex simmer for awhile.

Re: Heartbreak with AMEX Marriot Bonvoy Brilliant - Denial

CreditCuriosity — Wed, 27 Nov 2019 16:59:40 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I think some of you Have got me confused with someone else. “Plenty of advice in other threads”, “very active credit seeking”.

Literally not a single person has told me to “slow my roll” because I haven’t been applying for anything in months. And if credit seeking is is three new accounts in the last 6 months then some of you have a real problem.

I’m sincerely offended by some of your comments and feel far less enthusiastic about this group; awesome that the sentiment is let’s kick a guy while he is down and provide no useful advice.

It is clear that some of you make recommendations without knowing at all who you are talking to or even reading the original post fully.

Very disappointed by some “mega contributors” I’d expect a little more from ya’ll.

Anyways, I appreciate the responses none the less. And I agree that it was too much from Amex too soon.

Other than that, wish I hadn’t posted lol.

You are entitled to feel that way as long as this post doesn't go against the FSR guidelines of the forum; if it does, that is another story and will be dealt with... You werent being picked on and heck I have a huge problem with new accounts as i am what 25 accounts in 24 months? The thing that we zoomed in on was this...

"- AMEX Member since 8/26/2019, second card (business) approved 10/6, and was pre-approved about 3-4 weeks ago for this exact card."

that isnt very long at all for being a member of a bank. They need to get to know you first before extending more credit, it is pretty much that simple as you shouldn't take offense at advise given as many of us on the forum have tons of amex cards and know how they work as a lender. Also having 50% utilizaton on one card is pretty high and 30% on a few other cards is up there as well.. AMEX is known as a transactor lender as they prefer to be paid in full where-as lenders like Discover and Cap1 love to make money off interest and the are called "revolver" cause they prefer those type of customers to make interest off of. Can choose to take of leave advise that is up to you, but i saw nothing offensive in this post other than reasonable advise.

Best of luck to you moving forward on your credit journey with amex and other issuers. I know things arent always what you want to hear, but sugar coating things doesn't always help a person.

Re: Heartbreak with AMEX Marriot Bonvoy Brilliant - Denial

Anonymous — Wed, 27 Nov 2019 17:15:56 GMT

Curiosity,
I actually agreed with your post in particular and many other people’s posts which I found constructive and on point.

Even before I was applying for this card I was hesitant because of the timeline of accounts with my new favorite lender. And the first reason for denial leaves little room for interpretation.

I was sort of hoping for advice on the pay down plan I mentioned lol. Maybe I should’ve emphasized that a little more.

I was just a little upset that some of the advice given was not relevant to me and my situation (in my opinion) and seemed a bit misplaced.

I have been growing my limits through SP CLI’s since August but to say I am credit seeking with the aforementioned new account numbers over the last 6 months seems... inaccurate; Specifically in the context of the community we have here.

And having the hard work I have put in eliminating over $10k in balances in the last 3 months completely overlooked in favor of re-stating what the letter literally spells out was just not what I expected to wake up to from a community I turn to for support and guidance.

I always try and read every post thoroughly and provide constructive advice for people that will help them achieve their goals.

I’d like to think I’ve done so over the past few months without making anyone feel bad about themselves.

Thank you everyone for your feedback.

Re: Heartbreak with AMEX Marriot Bonvoy Brilliant - Denial

Remedios — Wed, 27 Nov 2019 17:26:18 GMT

@Anonymous When you ask a question in public forum, there should be a reasonable expectation that you will not agree with all the answers/suggestions.

I dont speak for other members that you listed as source of your sore disappointment, but rest assured, most of us are speaking from personal (unpleasant) experiences.

With that said, I need to correct you a tad bit. You did not open three cards. You did more than that. Since end of June you've added Discover (student), Costco, Apple, Amex personal, Amex business. So, we're at 5 in 5 months. If we're going back some more, Nordy's in January. Up to 6 in a year. There is probably more, but I'm tired, and point has been made.

You've passed what most lenders will tolerate in two years in mere 10 months.

Your AAoA is going to suffer. People with older profiles can at times absorb this kind of activity without a problem. Those with younger histories, not so much.

If you find yourself looking at the card that you really want and could use, you will get denied. This will go on for a while, till dust settles. That's not prophecy, it already happened. You got denied.

So, I'm really not sure how repeating and expanding on what your own denial letter states is a disappointment.

I've done this exact thing. Ive applied for everything under the sun and I had to sit in a naughty chair for a really long time. I could not get approved for a store thingy you put on a key chain. More than half of those cards are closed now. They sure seemed like a good idea at the time. I did not stop to think for one second that to most lenders it would look like I was getting ready to rob the world.

You're free to do whatever you feel is right for your finances and your credit. I do not have a horse in this race but you do. it would be a wise and prudent thing to sometimes look at things from lender's perspective. It would save you heartbreak you referenced in the title of your thread.

Good luck however you choose to proceed.

Re: Heartbreak with AMEX Marriot Bonvoy Brilliant - Denial

Anonymous — Wed, 27 Nov 2019 17:30:27 GMT

Something that would help out is how to get rid of the second reason for denial?

...”balances high in relation to limits on revolving accounts” despite having low aggregate utilization.

This always shows on my free FICO scores “factors affecting your scores”

It must be speaking to individual UTI. Will this not be a “factor” once everything is under 50%? 30%?

As of today nothing over 50% but that won’t report until next month. And 2/7 cards with balances are now at zero.

So 5 cards with balances now, one over 30% but less than 48.9% and four below 28.9%.

Re: Heartbreak with AMEX Marriot Bonvoy Brilliant - Denial

Anonymous — Wed, 27 Nov 2019 17:59:53 GMT

Remedios,
Thankyou for your comment. The three accounts in 6 months that I mentioned are the three visible accounts opened in the last 6 months on my personal reports at the moment.

Apple Card (as of now) and any business card are not on my personal credit reports as I’m sure you know. By mid to end December it will be two new accounts in 6 months by this method of calculation (as imperfect as this calculation might be).

So as far as my personal reports are concerned... 1) discover in June, 2) Costco in August and 3) Hilton in August... all quiet since then for new accounts and all of these have 0 balance and have never reported with a balance.

Definitely didn’t want this thread to devolve into whatever it has become.

I do appreciate everyone who took the time to comment, especially those who spent their time searching through my posts from months ago to prove their point.

Unfortunately, I wasn’t looking to be corrected about the details of my own report but rather seeking guidance about actionable items outside of what the Amex letter already stated.

My sincere apologies for being overly defensive or if my previous posts came off as confrontational. But I’m sure you all know the feeling of a rejection and I value all of your advice whether I agree with it or not.

Re: Heartbreak with AMEX Marriot Bonvoy Brilliant - Denial

Remedios — Wed, 27 Nov 2019 18:15:24 GMT

@Anonymous Dont worry about it, we're good. We all get defensive sometimes when it comes to this "thing'

To answer your question on utilization from previous post

High aggregate utilization leads to more points lost scoring wise, but individual utilization is important, especially if you have multiple card with utilization over 29.9%

At 29.9%, your scores are not optimized, that happens at below 8.9% but it's acceptable. A single card with higher utilization may not be too much of a problem, providing others are either below 8.9% and/or $0.00

Your first goal should be going below 29.9% on all cards, then dropping as many as you can below 8.9%.

Also, at the time of application because of Amex's sensitivity to high utilization and your relative lack of history with them, you should strive for as many $0.00 balances as possible.

Re: Heartbreak with AMEX Marriot Bonvoy Brilliant - Denial

Anonymous — Wed, 27 Nov 2019 18:19:40 GMT

Remedios,

See this is what I’m talking about! Thank you for your help and guidance. <29.9% here I come!!!

I have come along way but still have a bit to go. And all of you have helped a great deal in this journey thus far.

Re: Heartbreak with AMEX Marriot Bonvoy Brilliant - Denial

HeavenOhio — Wed, 27 Nov 2019 19:39:03 GMT

@Anonymous, you want to be at 28.9% or below, not 29.9%.

A good look would be all balances at 28.9% or lower with more than half of your cards reporting zero. As mentioned, 8.9% is better.

Re: Heartbreak with AMEX Marriot Bonvoy Brilliant - Denial

Anonymous — Wed, 27 Nov 2019 19:43:47 GMT

@HeavenOhio

Thank you! Currently have 13/18 of the cards on my personal report at a 0 balance. So utilizing this balance transfer offer to drop everything below 28.9% would be a good idea I presume.

Also, it will save me a good amount on interest.

Re: Heartbreak with AMEX Marriot Bonvoy Brilliant - Denial

Anonymous — Wed, 27 Nov 2019 21:10:18 GMT

What is utilization of your Business Card from Amex?

Because while it doesn't sow up on personal CR, Amex knows about it and will be factored into their decision.

Everything else has been exstensively covered. But I'll add that continued UT at even 28% with no movement will also be factored. So don't get into a "compfort zone" thinking you can ride that out forever.

Re: Heartbreak with AMEX Marriot Bonvoy Brilliant - Denial

Anonymous — Thu, 28 Nov 2019 04:27:45 GMT

Low UTI on business. And definitely no comfort zone for me AZEO by February is the plan.