topic Denied Target's Credit Card in Credit Card Applications

Denied Target's Credit Card

AstroNerd — Mon, 25 Mar 2019 15:25:59 GMT

I applied for a target red card this morning and was denied. I called them to ask why and they told me that I had a lot of inquiries and ratio of debt, etc, etc. I told them that I make $120,000 a year, gornment employee, software engineer and have worked for my current agency for over 12 years. She said my score was 168 or so but I had a lot of recent inquiries and some other ambiguous factors were considered.

Does anyone know what/why with my score and salary, I couldn't be approved even for a 200 or 300 credit limit? Does this business model even seem normal? It appears to make absolutely no sense. The excuse that I have a lot of recent inquiries seems to me bizzare. I was under the impression that the credit bureaus's job was to report my credit payment and history, not to monitor my habits or preferences.

What has the number of inquiries got to do with my ability to pay for my existing obligations? What has that gotten to do with my historical records? I have a Walmart Card with 5000 limit, Amazon with 4500 and JC Penny with 6000, all in good standing.

This is a store card, not even a credit card. No wonder these stores are going out of business in record numbers. I will never step foot in another Target store ever again.

Re: Denied Target's Credit Card

Anonymous — Mon, 25 Mar 2019 15:33:11 GMT

I don't think 6 stores closing with 19 opening is 'going out of business in record numbers'.

With that being said, inquiries matter because they show that someone is actively seeking credit. That doesn't necessarily mean anything bad, but some lenders are significantly more sensitive to that than others. Active credit seeking, especially when combined with a low credit score, relatively decent income, and other low-limit store cards may just be setting off their alarms based on their credit algorithms.

Imho yes, the business model absolutely makes sense-especially if someone is willing to cut ties after not getting a $200 starter card.

Re: Denied Target's Credit Card

Anonymous — Mon, 25 Mar 2019 15:52:38 GMT

Sorry for your denial.

First, remember that Target does not directly issue this card. It is issued through TD Bank and they make credit decisions on their own as they would any other card they may issue. I understand the frustration, however projecting that directly onto Target may be a little off base.

Secondly, if you’re just looking for the 5% discount by using the card, you might look into the Target debit card. You’d still get the same 5% discount that the credit card offers.

Lastly, the issuing banks want to issue cards just as much as consumers want to get them. The banks don’t make money by not having their cards in consumers hands. It helps from a perspective standpoint to keep this in mind. When credit profiles pose concerns to them, however, they have to hold back though.

If I may offer a suggestion, I’d obtain your true FICO scores and look at your credit reports to see what may have led them to the denial that they offered. Many times the “too many inquiries” denial reason is just a generic “we didn’t like your profile” excuse.

Re: Denied Target's Credit Card

Anonymous — Mon, 25 Mar 2019 16:05:55 GMT

Sorry about your denial but I really doubt you not stepping on Target ever again. Good luck with everything!

Re: Denied Target's Credit Card

sccredit — Mon, 25 Mar 2019 16:47:08 GMT

Remove the emotion from credit. TD Bank is in the business of lending and they are the decision maker in this, not Target. Nobody is entitled to credit. The lender wasn't comfortable lending you their investor's money for numerous reasons, that is their right. It isn't personal, it is strictly business. If you start taking credit personally you will drive yourself crazy.

Re: Denied Target's Credit Card

AstroNerd — Mon, 25 Mar 2019 16:55:10 GMT

That is what I am worried. The credit bureaus or banks should not be in the business of predictive analysis based on some vague and ambiguous reasons; they should look at my history of making payments on my obligations, period.

As I wrote, I am a government employee. I have a stable job. I make decent salary. I pay my bills. I am not perfect but my profile should tell them that. If their analysis does not tell them that, then something is very wrong with the model.

As a software engineer, it is obsence to my sense of logic that someone who makes $120,000 a year cannot be approved for even $200 CL store card. Seems like some kind of reverse psychology they are playing or something. That's all I am saying.

Re: Denied Target's Credit Card

AstroNerd — Mon, 25 Mar 2019 16:56:52 GMT

Good advice. I have been driving myself up a wall all morning about this. Not worth it.

Re: Denied Target's Credit Card

Anonymous — Mon, 25 Mar 2019 16:58:59 GMT

Unfortunately, credit decisions ARE based on predicting one’s ability to pay their debt. Just because someone has paid their debts in the past, doesn’t mean trouble can’t be brewing for the future. It’s all risk analysis.

Job, job stability, and pay rate are not always good predictors. Plenty of government employees on the job 12 years making $120,000 have defaulted on obligations before.

Re: Denied Target's Credit Card

AstroNerd — Mon, 25 Mar 2019 17:12:08 GMT

In that case, no-one should be granted credit then because the probability of defaulting applies to everyone, rich and poor. Even those with perfet 850 credit score are not guaranteed to keep their obligations if a life event occurs. Predictive analysis are inherently flawed by nature because nothing is certain about the future. It is just the random nature of life. If it werent so, we'd all be billionaires. Decisions should be guided by both predictivive analysis and human-level reasoning. It is unreasonable that I be denied a store card given my credit profile simply because I have a lot of inquiries on my report.

Re: Denied Target's Credit Card

Anonymous — Mon, 25 Mar 2019 17:14:39 GMT

You may want to check your Fico scores. A low score is more than just a ton of inquiries. You have other things at play that need attention.

Also, its important to remember that lenders do not owe you anything and no one is entitled to credit. Look at your credit profile and see what you can do to make yourself more attractive to lenders.

Re: Denied Target's Credit Card

Anonymous — Mon, 25 Mar 2019 17:15:52 GMT

I think you are forgetting that credit is a privilege and not a right. No creditor is required to extend you credit and can use any reasons they wish to decide not to. They don’t deem you to be profitable and thus decided not to extend any credit to you and that is their right. I know it is frustrating when you want a card and don’t get it but we always have to keep in mind that they set the rules of the game. At least in the case of Target there is the option to get the debit card and still earn the rewards.

ETA: I was typing this at the same time as XtraCredit apparently.

Re: Denied Target's Credit Card

Andypanda — Mon, 25 Mar 2019 17:25:08 GMT

@AstroNerd wrote:
That is what I am worried. The credit bureaus or banks should not be in the business of predictive analysis based on some vague and ambiguous reasons; they should look at my history of making payments on my obligations, period.

As I wrote, I am a government employee. I have a stable job. I make decent salary. I pay my bills. I am not perfect but my profile should tell them that. If their analysis does not tell them that, then something is very wrong with the model.

As a software engineer, it is obsence to my sense of logic that someone who makes $120,000 a year cannot be approved for even $200 CL store card. Seems like some kind of reverse psychology they are playing or something. That's all I am saying.

Salary does not necceserry mean naything. Their are people who make millions a year and live beyond their means and declare bankrupcy. The importnant factor is how you handle the income you do recieve, and the debt and credit you have.

Re: Denied Target's Credit Card

Anonymous — Mon, 25 Mar 2019 17:29:21 GMT

I don't think we even need to go to "privilege and not a right" issue (although that is true). It seems OP has the wrong impression of what credit reports are for. The primary purpose is to predict risk for the issuer. In the era of big data, it DOESN'T have to make sense, providing FICO (or whoever) can convince issuers using historical data that there is a correlation between the score output (with reasons) and probability of default, that is all that is needed.

And number of inquiries is one that does make sense. As people get into financial difficulty, they will often "seek credit" in an aggressive fashion, applying for credit cards, loans etc. And as they are often unsuccessful in getting credit, they continue, piling on the inquiries.

Now people here do that as well for other reasons, but it's not hard to see that it can strongly correlate with risk.

And sure, some issuers support a manual review when a user calls in, but then a different type of risk/reward comes in. How much effort should an issuer put into this? If we fail to give OP a card, maybe he/she will never step foot into a Target again, but do we care that much? If we do give a card with a high CL, and, as predicted by the algorithm, there may be a default, how bad is that. If we give a card with a $200 CL, will that change anything (the OP maybe sufficiently insulted that they still don't go to target, or they may go and not spend much because of the low CL).

So, my advice, get the debit card, if you think there is a chance of using Target! (Who, as others have pointed out, isn't really the denying agent in this case)

Re: Denied Target's Credit Card

McNugget — Mon, 25 Mar 2019 17:46:11 GMT

Sounds like your utiliz

@AstroNerd wrote:
I applied for a target red card this morning and was denied. I called them to ask why and they told me that I had a lot of inquiries and ratio of debt, etc, etc. I told them that I make $120,000 a year, gornment employee, software engineer and have worked for my current agency for over 12 years. She said my score was 168 or so but I had a lot of recent inquiries and some other ambiguous factors were considered.

Does anyone know what/why with my score and salary, I couldn't be approved even for a 200 or 300 credit limit? Does this business model even seem normal? It appears to make absolutely no sense. The excuse that I have a lot of recent inquiries seems to me bizzare. I was under the impression that the credit bureaus's job was to report my credit payment and history, not to monitor my habits or preferences.

What has the number of inquiries got to do with my ability to pay for my existing obligations? What has that gotten to do with my historical records? I have a Walmart Card with 5000 limit, Amazon with 4500 and JC Penny with 6000, all in good standing.

This is a store card, not even a credit card. No wonder these stores are going out of business in record numbers. I will never step foot in another Target store ever again.

It sounds like your utilization might be high. Do you have more cards than just the store ones listed? I'm surprised if you don't based on your stated income and the inquiries. I'm surprised at the limits based on your income as well. Did most of those inquiries turn out as denials? If so, what reason was given? They can't all be ambiguous factors.

As somebody else said, you can make $120k per year, but have debt far surpassing that. Car loans? Business loans? Past BK or charge offs? How long have you been making this income? A part of the picture is missing here.

Re: Denied Target's Credit Card

AstroNerd — Mon, 25 Mar 2019 17:46:41 GMT

Maybe Target should use someother bank then. Like I said, I applied and was granted credit by Amex, PayPal, Amazon and Walmart with credit lines between 2800 and 6000. I have not run away with their money. I don't know who TD Bank thinks they are but their model is flawed if they would deny me EVEN a 200 credit line rather than flat out denial.

In addition to my obligations, I am sure if they READ my credit report they would see that I have a student loan right now studying for my second Masters degree right now also. What type of job, salary or education would it take to show them that I will not run away with their little store card, even if my credit score is only 687?

Re: Denied Target's Credit Card

Anonymous — Mon, 25 Mar 2019 17:49:54 GMT

@AstroNerd wrote:
In that case, no-one should be granted credit then because the probability of defaulting applies to everyone, rich and poor. Even those with perfet 850 credit score are not guaranteed to keep their obligations if a life event occurs. Predictive analysis are inherently flawed by nature because nothing is certain about the future. It is just the random nature of life. If it werent so, we'd all be billionaires. Decisions should be guided by both predictivive analysis and human-level reasoning. It is unreasonable that I be denied a store card given my credit profile simply because I have a lot of inquiries on my report.

While the bolded statement is not necessarily false, people whom have perfect credit scores have already shown their ability to handle credit and are therefore statistically more likely to handle their credit better and less likely to default or even miss a payment. That's literally the whole point of the scoring system. Nothing guarantees that someone won't default, it simply places them in a risk probability based on their past history.

Simply put: someone with a stable job, reasonable income, high DTI and poor payment history is much more likely to miss a payment or default than someone with a less stable job that has low income but a low DTI and perfect payment history. Nobody in the lending business cares about today as much as the most recent 7-10 year history because that's a significantly better indicator of how people manage their finances as a whole.

Re: Denied Target's Credit Card

McNugget — Mon, 25 Mar 2019 17:56:31 GMT

@AstroNerd wrote:
Maybe Target should use someother bank then. Like I said, I applied and was granted credit by Amex, PayPal, Amazon and Walmart with credit lines between 2800 and 6000. I have not run away with their money. I don't know who TD Bank thinks they are but their model is flawed if they would deny me EVEN a 200 credit line rather than flat out denial.

In addition to my obligations, I am sure if they READ my credit report they would see that I have a student loan right now studying for my second Masters degree right now also. What type of job, salary or education would it take to show them that I will not run away with their little store card, even if my credit score is only 687?

Your 687 score might indicate mid-range utilization and/or late payments. Your recently aquired credit limits don't seem to match your salary either.

Again, salary and education do not equate to fiscal responsibility. Something is keeping your scores under 700 despite the amazing salary and education you have. I'd order up your credit reports to see what's really going on. Either your credit report and/or the way you spoke to their underwriting team left your short of your target.

Re: Denied Target's Credit Card

CreditInspired — Mon, 25 Mar 2019 17:58:35 GMT

@AstroNerd wrote:
In that case, no-one should be granted credit then because the probability of defaulting applies to everyone, rich and poor. Even those with perfet 850 credit score are not guaranteed to keep their obligations if a life event occurs. Predictive analysis are inherently flawed by nature because nothing is certain about the future. It is just the random nature of life. If it werent so, we'd all be billionaires. Decisions should be guided by both predictivive analysis and human-level reasoning. It is unreasonable that I be denied a store card given my credit profile simply because I have a lot of inquiries on my report.

Wow, you are really angry. Somehow, I have the feeling if you had been granted a $200 CL, we would hear the same spiel.

The fact is that these predictive analysis, algorithms, and reports are put into place for a reason—to protect lenders. They loan billions of dollars a day, and they pay big bucks to know who should get a piece of the pie and who shouldn’t at this moment in time.

We don’t know your credit profile so we don’t know your AAOA or your AoYA. We don’t know your UT, if you ever had a

30-day late, or even a collection. Please understand that the makeup of one’s credit profile is derived from many factors, and income is only one small facet of it.

There are many risk factors that lenders contend with: breakout fraud, desperately seeking credit behaviors, customers who only make minimum payments on large balances, etc, to name a few.

So, if you do have a lot of inqs, it’s more

than likely you’re going to get the “too many inquiries response” a lot until the inquiries stop having an impact (when they age to 1 year).

So, it’s not worth the energy being upset with Target. If so, you’re going to be experiencing a lot of upset with a lot of different lenders.

So IMHO, I suggest gardening until the AoYA turns one and start applying again with the idea of 1 every 6 months.

GL2U

Re: Denied Target's Credit Card

AstroNerd — Mon, 25 Mar 2019 18:07:37 GMT

Good idea. Will stay away from all credit applications for now. At least until I get to between 800 and 850 score. Definitely not worth getting declined and upset about. Come to think about it, the Amex, Amazon, Walmart and Paypal accounts are probably all one needs anyway. Maybe it's just the ego of having more that got me into this

Re: Denied Target's Credit Card

Anonymous — Mon, 25 Mar 2019 18:28:43 GMT

How exactly do you have a 687 FICO with a clean report?

I have a 702 TU FICO with a BK on the record and my lowest is EQ at 659 with BK, a paid repo, and student loan late payments. Something is definitely holding you back - I got a PayPal Cashback in January with an $8000 SL and my income is more than 6 times less than your own and 10 new accounts in 12 months.

It’s definitely time to hit the garden. Clean up whatever it is that is holding you back and come back with higher scores.

By the way, TD Bank is another foreign bank (TD is Toronto-Dominion Bank) and all of them like Barclays and HSBC are known to be very much a pain to deal with whether it be low limits, excessive fraud screening, or balance chasing and closed accounts. US banks take much more risk than foreign banks find acceptable.