topic Re: Amex app question in Credit Card Applications

Amex app question

dustind — Tue, 29 Dec 2020 03:17:17 GMT

Hello everyone. I am wondering if I should app for an Amex BCE. I tried a little over a year ago and was rejected after receiving a preapproval. I am getting more consistent preapprovals for their prime cards now unlike before where it was spotty. In the previous rejection I had about the same unboosted Experian FICO score, ~700 now vs 699 then.

Mature unpaid CC CO profile, 5.5 years since only delinquency.

18.1y AoOA

6y AAoA

2 cards then, 3 bank cards plus a store card now.

2.5 months AoYRA

My rejection last year said lowest limit was too low. It was $300, now $500 on the cap1 bucketed card. Even if I really push for a high spend for a CLI it is very iffy and will only be $100 if I can get it.

My average was too low. $450 then, $1133 now. CLI on my other two bank cards, a Discover and a new 2.5 month old Cap1 SavorOne would take a while.

Account history too short. Open accounts were 3.5 months then, 15.5 months now.

I think I could get in with hopefully a non probationary SL and CLI potential but I am not sure.

If I do app should I app now to get the card back dated to December 1st, or wait for January 1st so my accounts to gain another month of stated history?

Any advice, opinions, info, or data points welcome.

Thank you guys.

Re: Amex app question

Girlzilla88 — Tue, 29 Dec 2020 03:53:15 GMT

@dustind If I read that correctly you have a CO on your account still?! Is there any way you can get that off? That would help your score and your chances if you could ^^

Re: Amex app question

dustind — Tue, 29 Dec 2020 03:57:57 GMT

Correct, I have a Chase CC CO that has another 1.3 years before early exclusion. I would be around 830? if I didn't have that on the report.

Re: Amex app question

Girlzilla88 — Tue, 29 Dec 2020 04:01:53 GMT

@dustind I'm not sure how much of a Jump you would see but I do know they do hurt and with you being over a year average (I believe you said 15 months sorry I can't remember exactly) that part is great but that CO is a big flag. I'm not sure if Chase will do a PFD have you tried or read up on it?!

Re: Amex app question

thornback — Tue, 29 Dec 2020 04:18:02 GMT

If the CO was paid then I'd say you'd have a good shot at an approval. But unpaid, unfortunately, no, sorry-- I don't see it happening. The only thing an unpaid, yet mature, derogatory is showing Amex is that after 5.5 years, you still haven't made good on your debt - and they're sticklers for paying back what you owe. I think you may just have to wait until that CO can be removed (or pay it).

Re: Amex app question

dustind — Tue, 29 Dec 2020 05:58:18 GMT

That does make sense, but others have been approved with unpaid charge offs.

The silly thing is that I would pay it now (edit to add: and would have paid it 6 months ago) if it wouldn't make my score drop. My current plan is to wait until maybe three months before early exlusion and pay the principle of the balance, not all of the interest and fees. That will settle for less and let my current creditors see that I paid something through their softpulls for a few months before it drops off.

Re: Amex app question

Remedios — Tue, 29 Dec 2020 05:01:13 GMT

Paying what you owe is never silly.

Someone spent that money.

Re: Amex app question

thornback — Tue, 29 Dec 2020 05:14:39 GMT

@dustind wrote:
That does make sense, but others have been approved with unpaid charge offs.

The silly thing is that I would pay it now if it wouldn't make my score drop. My current plan is to wait until maybe three months before early exlusion and pay the principle of the balance, not all of the interest and fees. That will settle for less and let my current creditors see that I paid something through their softpulls for a few months before it drops off.

I, admittedly,, haven't paid much attention to approvals lately but the only approvals I've seen for folks with an unpaid derogatory have been for Amex co-branded cards - which generally have less strict underwriting.

Is the CO updating monthly or has it not updated in a while? If it's updating monthly paying it is not likely to hurt your scores much, if at all - it may even help depending on how it affects/reduces your util. If it hasn't updated in a while then you may get dinged with the final update to reflect payment-- but paying will also prevent an unexpected update - or collection activity - in the future since you still have a year+ of reporting.

And the plan to pay a few months before drop off so your creditors can see seems a bit futile, tbh. I mean, they're not going to jot down a note that Dustin finally paid Chase... Either your reports show an unpaid derogatory, a paid derogatory, or no derogatory on the sp date - all that matters is your report on the account review date and your history with that lender.

If you want to pay Chase back then do so... but waiting til it's about to fall off won't help you.

Re: Amex app question

dustind — Tue, 29 Dec 2020 06:10:24 GMT

It hasn't updated in a long time.

From CCT:

Status updated May 2015

Balance updated Apr 03, 2016

Chase hasn't sent me any mail regarding it in a few years. I barely heard from them after a short while after it went into charge off possibly because of the government action against Chase regarding their collections activites from several years ago.

I guess hoping that other creditors have or would update their internal record of me is wishful thinking.

Within the last year I can afford to pay it in full but would like to wait so as to not hurt my score. FICO should change their code so that paying a CO can't lower your score relative to not paying it at all.

Re: Amex app question

thornback — Tue, 29 Dec 2020 06:20:37 GMT

I understand. Just keep in mind that even dormant creditors sometimes wake up in the final year of reporting. They may not take collection action but may update the tradeline anyway as a last ditch effort to collect payment. It's all a game of chance at this point. You may make it all through the last year of reporting without a peep - or you may not.

In any event, I'd suggest putting Amex on the back burner til the CO is resolved one way or another. Amex isn't going anywhere - so it's not like you'll miss out by waiting.

Re: Amex app question

Anonymous — Tue, 29 Dec 2020 09:18:31 GMT

@dustind wrote:
It hasn't updated in a long time.
From CCT:
Status updated May 2015
Balance updated Apr 03, 2016
Chase hasn't sent me any mail regarding it in a few years. I barely heard from them after a short while after it went into charge off possibly because of the government action against Chase regarding their collections activites from several years ago.

I guess hoping that other creditors have or would update their internal record of me is wishful thinking.

Within the last year I can afford to pay it in full but would like to wait so as to not hurt my score. FICO should change their code so that paying a CO can't lower your score relative to not paying it at all.

I would not wait to pay it. I would either pay it and be done with it (which you can simply just settle for less - it doesn't have to be the full amount) or just let it age off and get around to settling it later. Whi knows, if the balance is high enough and since it is ild enough, you may be able to settle for loads less than you think. I have seen 80% off the reported balance in settling.

Just because the last balance update was in 2016 does not mean it is not updating monthly or regularly. I would look at the actual payment history. Does it show CO every month since the last update or does the payment history just stop in 2016? Then if you pay it, it may likely help your scores. Honestly, you do not know if it will help or hurt until you pay it. If the balance is high enough, getting it to report to zero may help you exponentially.

Is it only on TU? Or is it also on EX and/or EQ? Even if you do EE and find a creditor that only HPs TU, that does not mean that they may not SP the other 1 or 2 bureaus. There are also instances of double or triple pulls. So until it is off all 3 reports, I would not consider your CO secret safe. It can be incredibly frustrating, trust me, I totally know. I get EE from TU and then still have to wait 3 more months for EX and then another 3 months for EQ after that to finally be rid of them.

I am simply saying, dont wait to last minute to settle/pay because of scores. Waiting til the 11th hour to pay will not score you any points with creditors (UW) just because you decided to pay it right before it aged off. Then when it ages off shortly after, no one will even know you made such an effort. I have dealt with baddies as an all or none. Deal with it now or let it age off and deal with it later. This is not a popular train of thought, but it is valid one, even if just for me.

Re: Amex app question

dustind — Tue, 29 Dec 2020 16:05:02 GMT

It's on all three reports. Both CCT and my annual (now weekly until April 2021) credit report show nothing since April 2016. It reported CO 12 times May 2015 to April 2016 and then stopped.

I didn't know early exclusion wouldn't help with EX and TU, thank you for that information.

With a F8 score of 703 EX, 679 EQ, and 705 TU touching the CO won't help the scores any. With my short open account history I am getting the best that I can.

Thank you for the advice everyone. I will wait to apply for any more cards.

Re: Amex app question

thornback — Tue, 29 Dec 2020 16:09:46 GMT

EEs work differently on each bureau- TU will generally remove 6 months early, EX 3 months, EQ 1 month. So what @Anonymous meant was that even if you got TU to remove 6 months early, the derogatory would still be on EX and EQ. So, for example, if a lender hard pulled TU for approval and saw a clean report, that doesn't mean that same lender would not also soft pull EX and/or EQ and see the derogatory there - ultimately resulting in a denial

Re: Amex app question

OmarGB9 — Tue, 29 Dec 2020 19:26:25 GMT

@dustind wrote:
It's on all three reports. Both CCT and my annual (now weekly until April 2021) credit report show nothing since April 2016. It reported CO 12 times May 2015 to April 2016 and then stopped.

I didn't know early exclusion wouldn't help with EX and TU, thank you for that information.

With a F8 score of 703 EX, 679 EQ, and 705 TU touching the CO won't help the scores any. With my short open account history I am getting the best that I can.

Thank you for the advice everyone. I will wait to apply for any more cards.

Actually it may help. Even though it hasn't updated in 5+ years, the fact that it's a CO with an outstanding balance continues to suppress your scores. The mere utilization drop alone may help more than you think and outweigh the final update hit.

Re: Amex app question

dustind — Tue, 29 Dec 2020 20:18:32 GMT

I have been monitoring my scores and error codes for over a year through several sources, utilization for that card isn't counted at all in any place on any FICO or vantage score. This is likely due to its time since DOFD or time since last update.

My profile responds to utilization normally as if the CO wasn't there at all.