topic Re: Amex Green now credit slot? / applying for Hilton Surpass in Credit Card Applications

Amex Green now credit slot? / applying for Hilton Surpass

starflyerboy — Fri, 15 Jan 2021 07:16:53 GMT

Hello all!

First time posting here and maybe I can get some more info and helpful advice.

Recent DPs elsewhere have suggested rather strongly that Amex now treats Personal Green as a credit card and not a charge card in determining new credit applications. My refreshed FICO should be updating with Amex soft pull early next week and I was planning on applying for Hilton Surpass several days afterwards to let the score sink in. If DPs are true, then I am technically already at my 4/4 (?) limit. Should I attempt to apply anyways and recon if denied or take another option?

Current Amex cards (opening dates):

Delta Gold (05/19) // EveryDay (01/20) // Green (02/20) // Cash Magnet (02/20) // Platinum (01/21 about two weeks ago)

If Green counts as credit card then ideally I would wait until end of February and cancel Cash Magnet but I have some big Hilton spend coming up in a few weeks and would rather not miss out. I'm fast-tracking to HH Diamond already via status match so Aspire doesn't interest me at the moment. My EveryDay 1-year is next week and I was hoping to keep it around for flexibility but willing to cancel it on the spot if approval for Surpass depended on it.

Currently rebuilding a MR/HH strategy and debating on Gold soon as well, since the SUB and temp benefits keep increasing. Obviously why I pulled the trigger on Platinum, as well. All my Amex credit cards are $1k limit. Delta started at $2k but was halved this summer, presumably by Covid risk. Recon unsuccessful but spend was encouraged for future improvements (been putting lots of spend on since then, mostly Green).

FICO8 EX 748

(up 60 points from last month, mostly by reducing utilization to 2%)

Platinum was approved at 688

No lates or derogatories

PIF for almost a year straight

AAoA: 2 yr, 8 mo

Total Available $48,800 across 14 cards ($25,500 on 2 cards is AU, not sure how it factors)

Any tips would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

Happy to provide more info if need be.

Re: Amex Green now credit slot? / applying for Hilton Surpass

coldfusion — Fri, 15 Jan 2021 16:24:50 GMT

Warning, a bit of tough love coming.

The fact that you have $1K credit limits on all of your credit cards coupled with one of them now at $1K due to a CLD is a clear indicator that you need to pull on the reigns. It's not unusual for someone with an EX FICO 8 score in the 690 range to get a Platinum approval although those approvals are commonly associated with someone with a late stage derog(s).

$50K total CL across 14 cards is another indicator that you're moving too fast, you're getting too many toy limits.

Who is claiming that the personal Green card is now considered as a credit card?

Re: Amex Green now credit slot? / applying for Hilton Surpass

starflyerboy — Fri, 15 Jan 2021 17:10:44 GMT

Tough love accepted and appreciated

I have CSP ($6.2k, 12 months old), credit union Visa ($3k, 3 yr), Discover it ($3k, 1 yr), Quicksilver ($3k, 3.5 yr), Citi Double Cash ($1k, 1.75 year), Citi Diamond Preferred ($1k, 1 yr), Apple Card ($2.5k, 7 mon), in addition to previously stated Amex cards. AU on 2 cards with established history ($16k & $9.5).

Perhaps this seems high velocity? FWIW, I haven't asked for any CLI ever and have been wanting to consolidate cards down to focus mainly on Amex now and perhaps Citi in the near future. Put about $20k through Amex last year and another $20k through the other cards. Trying to move everything onto Amex where I can. 100% payment history and 0 derogatories. Are you saying I may be jumping the gun with Amex currently?

The Green card issue hasn't been confirmed yet but a friend told me that underwriting rules were changed for Green in the last couple months. Something to do with Pay Over Time not having a minimum amount and counting as a lending product. Perhaps more concrete info will come out of this but I wanted to just assume the worst when I went to apply for Surpass.

Re: Amex Green now credit slot? / applying for Hilton Surpass

Anonymous — Fri, 15 Jan 2021 17:44:53 GMT

The POT feature lends a revolver-like ability but Green is still a charge card. Along with my Platinum and Gold, I have four revolvers, the current max Amex will approve, and as of one minute ago still have a standing preapproval for Green. I have no preapprovals for any revolvers, even a cobrand which would have lower underwriting than a charge card, which tells me I am at the max for those and therefore Green is still classed as a charge card.

Re: Amex Green now credit slot? / applying for Hilton Surpass

starflyerboy — Fri, 15 Jan 2021 17:46:44 GMT

Yeah I believe that's how it plays out now. Green is still a charge card for applications and upgrades/downgrades but existing Green counts towards revolver max limit. So if you currently hold Green and three other revolvers, you may not be approved for another revolver. Hopefully more data will come out about this as it seems to be a fairly recent modification.

Re: Amex Green now credit slot? / applying for Hilton Surpass

Anonymous — Fri, 15 Jan 2021 17:49:26 GMT

Definitely the first I've ever heard it theorized. It doesn't make much sense.

Re: Amex Green now credit slot? / applying for Hilton Surpass

starflyerboy — Fri, 15 Jan 2021 17:52:15 GMT

I don't have verifiable data yet, just heresay, but I will find out next week one way or another. Either I'm approved for Surpass with current cards or I'm denied for said reason (or other non-applicable reason) and I'll report back.

Re: Amex Green now credit slot? / applying for Hilton Surpass

coldfusion — Fri, 15 Jan 2021 17:55:14 GMT

Yes - too much too fast with AMEX as indicated by the 2 x $1K approvals. A $1K SL essentially means a provisional approval and while those cards can be grown they generally can only do so at a much slower pace at least initially than AMEX credit cards approved with higher starting limits.

The starting limits on your Citi cards (even for Citi) and the Apple Card are below average as well.

There's nothing going on here that time and patience won't address, especially now that you can see for yourself how utilization numbers can affect your FICO scores.

At least for now I would not worry about the Green card. If you are considered at 4 credit cards they may outright deny or an AMEX underwriter or authorized proxy may call and tell you they will approve if you are willing to close one of your current cards, YMMV what if any choice they give you of cards to close. If they offer and you agree, while you are still on the phone they will close the existing card and immediately approve the new one.

Re: Amex Green now credit slot? / applying for Hilton Surpass

starflyerboy — Fri, 15 Jan 2021 17:58:15 GMT

I appreciate the advice and guidance. Patience is a hard pill to swallow for many of us but I am willing to put the time and work into my existing cards to eventually reap the rewards down the road. Thanks again!

Re: Amex Green now credit slot? / applying for Hilton Surpass

FinStar — Fri, 15 Jan 2021 19:58:57 GMT

@starflyerboy wrote:
Yeah I believe that's how it plays out now. Green is still a charge card for applications and upgrades/downgrades but existing Green counts towards revolver max limit. So if you currently hold Green and three other revolvers, you may not be approved for another revolver. Hopefully more data will come out about this as it seems to be a fairly recent modification.

@starflyerboy - Unfortunately, there is no solid data that supports this as far as AmEx UW and the internal revolving/POT feature vs. a standard revolving line for a variety of their revolving products. If you are denied, it won't be because you hold 3 revolvers and the Green charge card somehow placed you on the cusp or counted as a "fourth revolver".

Internally, they can assess and determine a pre-assigned revolving limit for each specific charge card based on experience with AmEx + other factors, but there haven't been any DPs that point individuals being denied for holding a Green - personal or business (or other charge card flavors) and having 4 (or more) AmEx revolving accounts - personal or business, or viceversa.

Re: Amex Green now credit slot? / applying for Hilton Surpass

starflyerboy — Fri, 15 Jan 2021 21:10:37 GMT

Thanks for this. I wanted to bring it up to you guys since you are all so knowledgeable and well informed. Perhaps I should have posed it as more of a question rather than an unconfirmed quasi-statement. I will do my best not to churn the rumor mill in the future!

I'll report back with the credit decision when it happens.

Re: Amex Green now credit slot? / applying for Hilton Surpass

FinStar — Fri, 15 Jan 2021 21:42:40 GMT

Sounds good @starflyerboy.

I'm hoping to see an approval from you down the road 🤞 Plus, definitely great advice by @coldfusion and @Anonymous.