topic Say What?!? AMEX SUB ineligible?!? in Credit Card Applications

Say What?!? AMEX SUB ineligible?!?

Aim_High — Fri, 07 May 2021 18:48:53 GMT

I'm stunned ... and honestly insulted. AMEX apparently thinks I’m a SUB-churner.

I feel like I’m in an episode of Seinfeld (Mod cut, not here please @Aim_High regardless of pop culture references - be mindful of the TOS and inappropriate references) except it’s the SUB:

“NO SUB FOR YOU!”

While I love a good SUB offering like anyone, I always try to look carefully beyond it to see how the card fits into my overall lineup and long-term plans. Most of my over three decades of credit, I've applied very sparingly for new cards. About four years ago, I did a minor housecleaning of cards and closed several retail cards where I had taken advantage of special financing on furniture and appliances related to a move to a new home. I decided to close a few cards once balances were paid, but they were all open for two or more years. At that point, I was slimming down my cards considerably. Then, three years ago, I started a focused shift to a combination of travel cards and better cash-back rewards cards, so I've been more active with adding new cards since then than at any point in my life. However, it's been far below the activity of many others on My Fico. My most active year was 2019 where I added 8 new accounts, including one AU. My FICO scores, income, and lifestyle had changed and I was overdue for a credit refresh.

I've been considering the timing of some new card applications and watching for the better SUB opportunities, but as I said, the SUBs are not the only reason I seek any cards. They are just one consideration. However, I saw a great offer on the American Express Hilton Surpass card (for up to 200K Hilton Honors points for $10K spend in the first six months) and it seemed too good to pass up. I've been in the garden for over 8 1/2 months and decided this was the time to try to add another few new cards.

Started my application and then I got this screen:

"... based on your history with credit card balance transfers, American Express welcome offers, introductory APR offers, or the number of cards you have opened or closed, you are not eligible to receive the welcome offer. We have not performed a credit check. Would you still like to proceed?"

I've opened no cards at all in almost nine months. I've opened only three cards in the past 12 months, including one AMEX (my Gold.) That card is still open and in regular use. Ironically, my file was “good enough” for AMEX to approve my Gold card WITH the 75K MR point SUB as my last new card, but somehow since then, they think I’ve been seeking too many special offers, even though nothing has changed on my file except that I’ve added more time since I either opened or closed any cards. I got the Gold card for the long-haul and had planned to keep it. That is the ONLY AMEX SUB I have EVER received in my entire life. I’ve NEVER gotten an AMEX SUB and later closed that card, and that’s what I thought usually generated such a response from AMEX. I've had a few other AMEX cards from many years ago but it was before SUBs became so commonplace. My last AMEX card before the Gold was my AMEX/Costco card. Yes, it was closed (June 2016) but not due to my choice; Costco changed card vender from AMEX to Citi.

There was ONE card I applied for, opened and immediately closed in the past two years. I applied for a second Discover card (IT Miles) but the SL was so low on it ($1K) that it wasn’t useful to me and I decided to close it immediately instead of trying to grow it. I never claimed a SUB or spent a nickel on it. Instead, DW added me as AU when she applied (and got a higher limit.)

For other card closures besides the AMEX Costco and the retail card closures from four years ago, I’ve had a few cards report closed in last couple of years due to low/no usage but they had been open for a long time. One of them was my PayPal credit. After Synchrony took it over in 2018, they started reporting it to CRBs and later closed it for non-use. Thanks, Synch. I would have closed it years ago since I never used it but PayPal never reported and it was easy to forget. The other was my Target Redcard.

New Personal cards showing on personal credit report:

0/6; 3/12; 10/24; 13/36; 13/48; 13/60

Closed accounts:

0/6; 0/12; 2/24; 3/36; 8/48; 9/60

Closed accounts where I initiated closure:

0/6; 0/12; 1/24; 1/36; 6/48; 6/60

*See lists at bottom of opened and closed cards.

I called AMEX customer service to vent and question the denial. The rep listened and opened a case to follow up, but I don’t really expect any relief from their SUB denial. Since they approved my Gold card with SUB but then denied the Hilton SUB, it appears to me that either they are cracking down on SUB-chasing or that one card pushed me over the edge with them. I’m also wondering how far back they are looking at cards being opened and/or closed when they make these decisions, and if my rash of closures of the store cards from four years ago is factoring into the equation. While none of us like policies like 5/24 (Chase) or 3/12 (BofA) or 1/12 (USB), at least those are somewhat predictable and standardized. AMEX just seems more random to me. It also appears to me that the system is arbitrarily looking at opened and/or closed accounts with no consideration of circumstances. For someone like myself who is just trying to realign my cards with my needs, it seems unnecessarily punitive.

I hesitated reopening a relationship with AMEX before I decided on the Gold card. I wasn’t sure if MRs were right for me or how AMEX cards would fit into my lineup. I thought I had resolved that, but if they think I’m going to add more AF-cards but forgo the SUBs on them, they are nuts. This situation definitely has me questioning it all again. Rant over. For those who are still with me, thanks for reading my diatribe. And I would appreciate any inputs or insights others have on AMEX’s SUB policies. If nothing else, I hope this provides some data points for the community on AMEX SUB expectations.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

2021 new cards:

NONE

2020 new cards:

08/2020: AMEX Gold

07/2020: Wells Fargo Cash Wise Visa

07/2020: Bank of America Premium Rewards Visa

04/2020: AOC FCU Signature Visa

2019 new cards:

11/2019: Navy FCU Platinum Visa

11/2019: PenFed FCU Power Cash Rewards Visa

11/2019: DISCOVER IT Miles (AU-DW)

11/2019: DISCOVER IT Miles*

*Closed within 30 days; no desire to grow low $1K SL

08/2019: GS Bank - Apple Mastercard

08/2019: Chase World of Hyatt

04/2019: Chase Marriott Bonvoy Boundless

01/2019: Chase Freedom

2018 new cards:

11/2018: Chase INK Business Preferred (now INK CASH)

*Not on personal credit report

05/2018: Chase Sapphire Reserve

2017 new cards:

NONE

2016 new cards:

NONE* (Citi Costco card transferred from AMEX but backdated to AMEX date.)

CLOSED Credit Card Accounts:

12/2019: Discover IT Miles (no SUB; closed within 30 days due low limit)

12/2019: Synchrony PayPal Credit; Closed due to inactivity (2010-2019)

02/2019: TD Bank/Target; Closed due to inactivity (2012-2019)

08/2017: JPMCB Chase Amazon Visa closed to consolidate CL; (2009-2017)

06/2016: American Express Costco closed after Costco change to Citi/Visa (1997-2016)

Additonal Retail/Store financing card closures that I initiated:

05/2017: Sears/CBNA (open 2011-2017)

05/2017: Kohls Capital One (open 2011-2017)

05/2017: Wells Fargo Dillards AMEX (open 2011-2017)

05/2017: Wells Fargo Bassett Furniture (open 2015-2017)

Re: Say What?!? AMEX SUB ineligible?!?

TampaBAY86 — Fri, 07 May 2021 18:53:28 GMT

@Aim_High I received the same message last Friday and I'm baffled.

I had the 150k points for $3k spend offer, decided to go for it, and was shocked when I got the message of doom. Like you, I plan out my cards based on what will benefit me the most, and plan for them.

My info:

I opened my Gold in July 2019, first Amex, and the only card I've opened since was my CSP in August 2019. I have a total of 5 cards reporting, plus an AU for my husband's Chase. The only closed card I've ever was a Chase card closed for inactivity during college, and that recently fell off my reports.

I had been waiting to apply for the Altitude Go and needed to get some utilization down and posted. We bought my husband a new car last May, and I was trying to get that to a year old as well (failed, but oh well). I had applied and was approved for the Altitude Go earlier in the day, which at first I thought was the reason. I confirmed they never did a HP, and had used my most recent score, which was from the middle of April so I'm still baffled.

My husband decided to apply for the 150K SUB that evening and was approved, so at least we got it.

Re: Say What?!? AMEX SUB ineligible?!?

FinStar — Fri, 07 May 2021 19:00:59 GMT

@Aim_High wrote:
I'm stunned ... and honestly insulted. AMEX apparently thinks I’m a SUB-churner.

I feel like I’m in an episode of Seinfeld (Mod cut, not here please @Aim_High regardless of pop culture references - be mindful of the TOS and inappropriate references) except it’s the SUB:
“NO SUB FOR YOU!”

While I love a good SUB offering like anyone, I always try to look carefully beyond it to see how the card fits into my overall lineup and long-term plans.  Most of my over three decades of credit, I've applied very sparingly for new cards. About four years ago, I did a minor housecleaning of cards and closed several retail cards where I had taken advantage of special financing on furniture and appliances related to a move to a new home. I decided to close a few cards once balances were paid, but they were all open for two or more years. At that point, I was slimming down my cards considerably. Then, three years ago, I started a focused shift to a combination of travel cards and better cash-back rewards cards, so I've been more active with adding new cards since then than at any point in my life. However, it's been far below the activity of many others on My Fico.  My most active year was 2019 where I added 8 new accounts, including one AU. My FICO scores, income, and lifestyle had changed and I was overdue for a credit refresh.

I've been considering the timing of some new card applications and watching for the better SUB opportunities, but as I said, the SUBs are not the only reason I seek any cards. They are just one consideration. However, I saw a great offer on the American Express Hilton Surpass card (for up to 200K Hilton Honors points for $10K spend in the first six months) and it seemed too good to pass up. I've been in the garden for over 8 1/2 months and decided this was the time to try to add another few new cards.

Started my application and then I got this screen:

"... based on your history with credit card balance transfers, American Express welcome offers, introductory APR offers, or the number of cards you have opened or closed, you are not eligible to receive the welcome offer. We have not performed a credit check. Would you still like to proceed?"

I've opened no cards at all in almost nine months. I've opened only three cards in the past 12 months, including one AMEX (my Gold.) That card is still open and in regular use. Ironically, my file was “good enough” for AMEX to approve my Gold card WITH the 75K MR point SUB as my last new card, but somehow since then, they think I’ve been seeking too many special offers, even though nothing has changed on my file except that I’ve added more time since I either opened or closed any cards. I got the Gold card for the long-haul and had planned to keep it. That is the ONLY AMEX SUB I have EVER received in my entire life. I’ve NEVER gotten an AMEX SUB and later closed that card, and that’s what I thought usually generated such a response from AMEX. I've had a few other AMEX cards from many years ago but it was before SUBs became so commonplace. My last AMEX card before the Gold was my AMEX/Costco card. Yes, it was closed (June 2016) but not due to my choice; Costco changed card vender from AMEX to Citi.

There was ONE card I applied for, opened and immediately closed in the past two years. I applied for a second Discover card (IT Miles) but the SL was so low on it ($1K) that it wasn’t useful to me and I decided to close it immediately instead of trying to grow it. I never claimed a SUB or spent a nickel on it. Instead, DW added me as AU when she applied (and got a higher limit.)

For other card closures besides the AMEX Costco and the retail card closures from four years ago, I’ve had a few cards report closed in last couple of years due to low/no usage but they had been open for a long time. One of them was my PayPal credit. After Synchrony took it over in 2018, they started reporting it to CRBs and later closed it for non-use. Thanks, Synch. I would have closed it years ago since I never used it but PayPal never reported and it was easy to forget. The other was my Target Redcard.

New Personal cards showing on personal credit report:
0/6; 3/12; 10/24; 13/36; 13/48; 13/60

Closed accounts:
0/6; 0/12; 2/24; 3/36; 8/48; 9/60

Closed accounts where I initiated closure:
0/6; 0/12; 1/24; 1/36; 6/48; 6/60

I called AMEX customer service to vent and question the denial. The rep listened and opened a case to follow up, but I don’t really expect any relief from their SUB denial. Since they approved my Gold card with SUB but then denied the Hilton SUB, it appears to me that either they are cracking down on SUB-chasing or that one card pushed me over the edge with them. I’m also wondering how far back they are looking at cards being opened and/or closed when they make these decisions, and if my rash of closures of the store cards from four years ago is factoring into the equation. While none of us like policies like 5/24 (Chase) or 3/12 (BofA) or 1/12 (USB), at least those are somewhat predictable and standardized. AMEX just seems more random to me.   It also appears to me that the system is arbitrarily looking at opened and/or closed accounts with no consideration of circumstances. For someone like myself who is just trying to realign my cards with my needs, it seems unnecessarily punitive.

I hesitated reopening a relationship with AMEX before I decided on the Gold card. I wasn’t sure if MRs were right for me or how AMEX cards would fit into my lineup. I thought I had resolved that, but if they think I’m going to add more AF-cards but forgo the SUBs on them, they are nuts. This situation definitely has me questioning it all again. Rant over. For those who are still with me, thanks for reading my diatribe.   And I would appreciate any inputs or insights others have on AMEX’s SUB policies. If nothing else, I hope this provides some data points for the community on AMEX SUB expectations.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

2021 new cards:
NONE

2020 new cards:
08/2020: AMEX Gold
07/2020: Wells Fargo Cash Wise Visa
07/2020:  Bank of America Premium Rewards Visa
04/2020:  AOC FCU Signature Visa

2019 new cards:
11/2019: Navy FCU Platinum Visa
11/2019: PenFed FCU Power Cash Rewards Visa
11/2019: DISCOVER IT Miles (AU-DW)
11/2019: DISCOVER IT Miles*
     *Closed within 30 days; no desire to grow low $1K SL
08/2019: GS Bank - Apple Mastercard
08/2019: Chase World of Hyatt
04/2019: Chase Marriott Bonvoy Boundless
01/2019: Chase Freedom

CLOSED Credit Card Accounts:
12/2019: Discover IT Miles (no SUB; closed within 30 days due low limit)
12/2019: Synchrony PayPal Credit; Closed due to inactivity (2010-2019)
02/2019: TD Bank/Target; Closed due to inactivity (2012-2019)
08/2017: JPMCB Chase Amazon Visa closed to consolidate CL; (2009-2017)
06/2016: American Express Costco closed after Costco change to Citi/Visa (1997-2016)

While the disappointment may be what's hard to come to grips with, you really shouldn't take it to the level of being personal or insulting. It's simply an internal algorithm.

Tons of threads on Reddit, FlyerTalk, etc., point out these ineligibility factors. For the most part, time seems to be a component that provides some success at some point. And, it's been reported that AmEx can look back as far as ~2 years on any type of 'outside' activity they deem a disqualifier for the SUB on some of their products - personal or business. So, it can be adding several revolving tradelines or closing them (AmEx doesn't specify how many), for instance.

Re: Say What?!? AMEX SUB ineligible?!?

Anonymous — Fri, 07 May 2021 19:14:19 GMT

Interesting and sorry to hear Amex will not honor sub for you. Seems they may be x\24 or x\y new accounts for subs, possibly 10\24? Will be intriguing to see what this leads to. Thanks for DPs.

Re: Say What?!? AMEX SUB ineligible?!?

Aim_High — Fri, 07 May 2021 19:21:07 GMT

@FinStar wrote:
While the disappointment may be what's hard to come to grips with, you really shouldn't take it to the level of being personal or insulting. It's simply an internal algorithm.

Tons of threads on Reddit, FlyerTalk, etc., point out these ineligibility factors. For the most part, time seems to be a component that provides some success at some point. And, it's been reported that AmEx can look back as far as ~2 years on any type of 'outside' activity they deem a disqualifier for the SUB on some of their products - personal or business. So, it can be adding several revolving tradelines or closing them (AmEx doesn't specify how many), for instance.

Thanks for the reply, @FinStar, but I was hoping for some enlightenment on the logic (or lack of it?) behind the algorithm. My issue isn't that AMEX has an algorithm to screen out SUB churning. My issue is that the algorithm appears flawed and that it identifies relatively normal, routine, and legitimate changes to a credit file as problematic. If the algorithm made sense, why would it approve me for the Gold SUB last August and then deny me the Hilton SUB when nothing has changed except for the better? It seems completely inconsistent, and I was hoping someone might have some insight into that aspect, as it makes no sense at all to me.

If the look-back is up to two years, the issue appears more related to the new accounts opened unless they are penalizing me for closing that single Discover account along with the Synch/PayPal Credit closure. If so, that seems overly harsh.

Apologies if the Seinfeld reference was offensive but I though the mere mention of the word in conjunction with the pop culture framework didn't cross a line.

Re: Say What?!? AMEX SUB ineligible?!?

FinStar — Fri, 07 May 2021 19:31:22 GMT

@Aim_High wrote:
@FinStar wrote:
While the disappointment may be what's hard to come to grips with, you really shouldn't take it to the level of being personal or insulting. It's simply an internal algorithm.

Tons of threads on Reddit, FlyerTalk, etc., point out these ineligibility factors. For the most part, time seems to be a component that provides some success at some point. And, it's been reported that AmEx can look back as far as ~2 years on any type of 'outside' activity they deem a disqualifier for the SUB on some of their products - personal or business. So, it can be adding several revolving tradelines or closing them (AmEx doesn't specify how many), for instance.
Thanks for the reply, @FinStar, but I was hoping for some enlightenment on the logic (or lack of it?) behind the algorithm. My issue isn't that AMEX has an algorithm to screen out SUB churning. My issue is that the algorithm appears flawed and that it identifies relatively normal, routine, and legitimate changes to a credit file as problematic. If the algorithm made sense, why would it approve me for the Gold SUB last August and then deny me the Hilton SUB when nothing has changed except for the better? It seems completely inconsistent, and I was hoping someone might have some insight into that aspect, as it makes no sense at all to me.

If the look-back is up to two years, the issue appears more related to the new accounts opened unless they are penalizing me for closing that single Discover account along with the Synch/PayPal Credit closure. If so, that seems overly harsh.

Apologies if the Seinfeld reference was offensive but I though the mere mention of the word in conjunction with the pop culture framework didn't cross a line.

I think an important factor to consider is that AmEx UW and SUB eligibility are not static, just as other lenders evaluate things on a continuing basis. So, while things were wonderful with the approval of the Gold Card, the outlook is different these days. Lots of reports on RAT clamping down on abuse on other fronts (i.e. referrals, merchant accounts, etc.).

This isn't saying you attempted to churn AmEx or abuse the system, but their internal AI algorithms have been likely tweaked over time. Some individuals end up as casualties of those stricter standards, but we've also seen the success of individuals where time has passed and they were able to qualify for the SUB at some point. So, it's not a permanent decision.

Re: Say What?!? AMEX SUB ineligible?!?

W261w261 — Fri, 07 May 2021 19:42:50 GMT

Always good to hear of experiences, thank you, although most of what I was thinking, was "Wow! How long did it take him to write that?"

Re: Say What?!? AMEX SUB ineligible?!?

Anonymous — Fri, 07 May 2021 20:13:20 GMT

Well let's strike the x/24 theory as I had not seen the post from @TampaBAY86 who looks to be at 2/24 when I posted.

Re: Say What?!? AMEX SUB ineligible?!?

TampaBAY86 — Fri, 07 May 2021 20:23:36 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Well let's strike the x/24 theory as I had not seen the post from @TampaBAY86 who looks to be at 2/24 when I posted.

That is correct. Sorry, I meant to specify that, but inadvertently left it out. I'm technically 3/24 now with the new Altitude Go, which was approved 4/30.

Re: Say What?!? AMEX SUB ineligible?!?

Aim_High — Fri, 07 May 2021 20:40:50 GMT

@W261w261 wrote:
Always good to hear of experiences, thank you, although most of what I was thinking, was "Wow! How long did it take him to write that?"

I know, right, @W261w261? It was in a couple of sittings. I type fast but also known for my longer posts. Part of me putting that together was simply due to the surprise about the denial and trying to wrap my head around what they were considering. The list of card openings is something I imported from a Word file that lists my cards. I wanted to share it with the community so that others might learn from the data points but also for me to gain a better understanding from our members about where I had crossed the line with them. It appeared it wasn't anything to do with my AMEX cards. I don't frequent those other forums that Finstar referenced and I didn't recall seeing anything similar to this posted on My FICO, at least not lately. I thought it might be a good discussion topic.

Re: Say What?!? AMEX SUB ineligible?!?

Jordan23ww — Fri, 07 May 2021 21:26:36 GMT

I'm so sorry this happened to you! I had the same thing happen to me recently, same exact pop up when I applied for the Platinum Card in March 2021. I think my Amex Gold card I got in November 2020 with the 60K MR points is the culprit. It doesn't help either that I opened a lot of cards from December 2019 to January 2021. 13 to be exact. 2 were Amex business cards, so on paper I'm 11/24 but in Amex eyes they can clearly see I opened 13 cards. All 13 cards are keepers for me though, I have no plans to close any of them.

I've gotten approved for every Amex card I've applied for until I applied for the Platinum. I was 4/4 (my 1st Amex is an authorized user card). I was denied in February for my Amex Account being too new. That was gonna be my 6th Amex card since December 2019 if you include the card I'm an AU on. I used the Amex pre-qualify tool in March and saw I was pre-qualified for the Platinum. I applied and that's when I got that same pop up. I guess with me just getting the 60K in November and then getting another 25K on my Blue Business Plus application in January it raised a red flag to them.

Usually I don't close any of my cards. I had to close one card in October 2020, an Apple Card, due to a technical issue but there was no SUB on it. I applied for the Apple card using the wrong Apple ID/ icloud account (I have 2 accounts) and I was told by Goldman Sachs that I would never get more than 1% on any purchases on that account. I closed it and reapplied using the correct icloud account. Other than that I haven't closed any accounts on my own since 2009.

Hopefully we both will become eligible for more Amex sign up offers soon! I'm definitely not gonna pay an annual fee for a card with a sign up offer if I am not eligible, especially the $550 fee on the Platinum. Best wishes to you when you decide to apply again!

Re: Say What?!? AMEX SUB ineligible?!?

TampaBAY86 — Fri, 07 May 2021 20:53:21 GMT

@Aim_High wrote:
@W261w261 wrote:
Always good to hear of experiences, thank you, although most of what I was thinking, was "Wow! How long did it take him to write that?"
I know, right, @W261w261? It was in a couple of sittings. I type fast but also known for my longer posts. Part of me putting that together was simply due to the surprise about the denial and trying to wrap my head around what they were considering. The list of card openings is something I imported from a Word file that lists my cards. I wanted to share it with the community so that others might learn from the data points but also for me to gain a better understanding from our members about where I had crossed the line with them. It appeared it wasn't anything to do with my AMEX cards. I don't frequent those other forums that Finstar referenced and I didn't recall seeing anything similar to this posted on My FICO, at least not lately. I thought it might be a good discussion topic.

Yes, I appreciated it @Aim_High because I don't read those others either and thought maybe I was the only one. As your your long post, I love your long posts and would have expected nothing less. Your analysis of Amex MR cards/Chase UR cards was why I leaned in and got the CSP when Chase sent me my preapproval in 2019.

I figure I may just need more time with Amex before they want to approve anything else. Since my husband got the Surpass, I'm back to considering getting a couple of the Chase cards I was thinking about sooner.

Re: Say What?!? AMEX SUB ineligible?!?

Aim_High — Fri, 07 May 2021 21:00:15 GMT

Thanks for the info, @Jordan23ww! This is type of details I was hoping other members would add about their own experiences with AMEX SUB denials. Yes, that's about one card a month from 12/19 until 01/21, so you were very busy! Congrats on that successful run and good luck to you also on the future SUB offerings. In time, I believe I will be eligible again but this was just unexpected and requires another adjustment to planning for new cards. Some known thresholds for AMEX would be nice so we could temper our expectations.

Re: Say What?!? AMEX SUB ineligible?!?

Jordan23ww — Fri, 07 May 2021 21:42:41 GMT

@Aim_High wrote:
Thanks for the info, @Jordan23ww! This is type of details I was hoping other members would add about their own experiences with AMEX SUB denials. Yes, that's about one card a month from 12/19 until 01/21, so you were very busy! Congrats on that successful run and good luck to you also on the future SUB offerings. In time, I believe I will be eligible again but this was just unexpected and requires another adjustment to planning for new cards. Some known thresholds for AMEX would be nice so we could temper our expectations.

You're very welcome! Happy to share! I definitely understand your shock! When I saw the pop up it was like a record scratch sound went off in my head. Lol! Thank you also for the congrats! My philosophy after not getting any new cards for 13 long years was I wanna get every card I can from my wish list and then I can chill. Other than the Amex Platinum and a Chase Ink Cash I can honestly say I have every card that was on my list. I won't be below 5/24 until August 2022 so unless I get targeted by Chase or become eligible for SUB on the Platinum I'm probably done for a while. Hopefully more people will continue to chime in and provide even more clarity regarding this!

Re: Say What?!? AMEX SUB ineligible?!?

Remedios — Fri, 07 May 2021 21:59:22 GMT

I don't think Amex has "tresholds"

When I was approved, I was about 9/24, with three cards being only two months old.

I've had pre-approvals for all of their personal cards since the day I created log in, I've gotten multiple offers for fee free Plan It, I got a promo offer for 0.99% for 9 months (as if!), and now I also have PL pre-approval.

I've also spent more than $35,000.00 (which is very little for that card, but all I needed, I have to feed other hungry cards) in a first year on Delta Reserve, so they probably don't care who else I'm seeing.

Being as data driven as they are, individual profiles are evaluated. I doubt there is any "treshold", or any internal rule on how much is too much.

If anything, I believe these are spend driven decisions.

If you got a good SUB on your gold, but your use has been sporadic, or less than they expected (indicating SUB chasing, true or not), they might be in a wait and watch mode.

Those accounts that were closed in a short time span aren't helping you any, either

In time and with regular use, you will be eligible again, though SUB might not be as appealing as is now.

Shortest period of time I've seen for someone going from "no sub" to "here is your sub" was three months, but it did involve significant spend compared to previous months.

Re: Say What?!? AMEX SUB ineligible?!?

dragontears — Fri, 07 May 2021 22:20:00 GMT

Just my experience with the pop-up.

I have 2 Amex cards, both are still open. Last year I was going to apply for one of the Hilton cards but got the pop-up. I had been carrying a balance on the most recent card (BBP 0% into APR, no SUB) for several months but had paid it off a month before applying. My conclusion at the time was carrying a balance puts you on the no SUB list in addition to suspected bonus chasing. I have not tried since then but with the insistent preapproval they keep emailing me and popping up whenever I log into my account I assume I am no longer on the naughty list.

I know that this isn't likely the cause of you getting the pop-up since your Amex is a charge card but I wanted to share.

Re: Say What?!? AMEX SUB ineligible?!?

Aim_High — Sat, 08 May 2021 00:41:57 GMT

@Remedios wrote:
I don't think Amex has "tresholds"
When I was approved, I was about 9/24, with three cards being only two months old.
I've had pre-approvals for all of their personal cards since the day I created log in, I've gotten multiple offers for fee free Plan It, I got a promo offer for 0.99% for 9 months (as if!), and now I also have PL pre-approval.
I've also spent more than $35,000.00 (which is very little for that card, but all I needed, I have to feed other hungry cards) in a first year on Delta Reserve, so they probably don't care who else I'm seeing.

Being as data driven as they are, individual profiles are evaluated. I doubt there is any "treshold", or any internal rule on how much is too much.
If anything, I believe these are spend driven decisions.

If you got a good SUB on your gold, but your use has been sporadic, or less than they expected (indicating SUB chasing, true or not), they might be in a wait and watch mode.
Those accounts that were closed in a short time span aren't helping you any, either

In time and with regular use, you will be eligible again, though SUB might not be as appealing as is now.

Shortest period of time I've seen for someone going from "no sub" to "here is your sub" was three months, but it did involve significant spend compared to previous months.

Thanks for the input, @Remedios. I never thought of AMEX as being that spend-driven from what I had read, but you may have a point there. I put higher spend on it to get the SUB but then backed off. Still hundreds a month but not as much.

Yes, it's becoming evident to me that AMEX is a lot more sensitive to credit-seeking than I had thought but if they have "thresholds" at all they appear more complicated and customized than some other lenders. It makes them more difficult to predict, IMO.

I also have have preapprovals and I believe they would have approved the card if I had continued; just without the SUB, and why do that when you don't have to?

I had never given those almost four-year old closed accounts a second thought until the denial, but I dug around and thought I would mention them for data points. It would be strange to me that they would look that far back on account histories, especially given the range of circumstances that surround opening and closing accounts beyond SUB offerings.

Re: Say What?!? AMEX SUB ineligible?!?

Remedios — Sat, 08 May 2021 01:07:20 GMT

@Aim_High what you mentioned above with high use till sub then (relative) slow down is one commonality everyone shared when they started threads about this situation.

I wouldn't be changing my habits, your current use as long as it remains consistent will do in time.

Humans be all abductive thinking

"If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck"

AI be "It's a duck, bro, because I was shown a duck, I was told ducks swim and quack. What else can it be. Pfft"

You don't have to be a duck, you just have to do things (unwittingly) that ducks do, if that makes sense.

Good/great SUBs come and go, there will be another one.

Re: Say What?!? AMEX SUB ineligible?!?

W261w261 — Sat, 08 May 2021 02:40:23 GMT

Amex/Delta SUB's are definitely in the "go" mode at the moment. Liking my 80k miles / 20k MQM's grabbed just under the wire... 🏝️

Re: Say What?!? AMEX SUB ineligible?!?

NoMoreE46 — Sun, 09 May 2021 11:01:30 GMT

@Aim_High wrote:
@W261w261 wrote:
Always good to hear of experiences, thank you, although most of what I was thinking, was "Wow! How long did it take him to write that?"
I know, right, @W261w261? It was in a couple of sittings. I type fast but also known for my longer posts. Part of me putting that together was simply due to the surprise about the denial and trying to wrap my head around what they were considering. The list of card openings is something I imported from a Word file that lists my cards. I wanted to share it with the community so that others might learn from the data points but also for me to gain a better understanding from our members about where I had crossed the line with them. It appeared it wasn't anything to do with my AMEX cards. I don't frequent those other forums that Finstar referenced and I didn't recall seeing anything similar to this posted on My FICO, at least not lately. I thought it might be a good discussion topic.

Most of the time I need to take notes when reading threads from @Aim_High as they are quite intense... @