topic Re: Housewife apps - American Express. Income? in Credit Card Applications

Housewife apps - American Express. Income?

Anonymous — Tue, 15 Jun 2021 00:57:33 GMT

My daughter is a housewife and takes care of her three kids full time.

She was considering opening a new card. ...

1- Currently she has three old cards in her name (Shell 800, BofA 13K and Bank of the West 20k). She is AU on 5 of her husband's cards and has a joint auto Loan with her husband to help her credit.

she was interested in applying for an American Express card and I didn't know what to tell her to put for her income? She files jointly with her husband, but no income of her own.

also, would she apply as "unemployed" with 160k (the income that is his that they jointly file)? I thought that would look really weird. I noticed "other" is an option too.

any advice would help

Re: Housewife apps - American Express. Income?

Red1Blue — Tue, 15 Jun 2021 01:26:54 GMT

She should put house hold income that would include her husband's income. Credit Card companies ask for house hold income. Never declare as unemployed. It will be a huge negative when applying for credit.

Re: Housewife apps - American Express. Income?

Anonymous — Tue, 15 Jun 2021 03:07:51 GMT

@Red1Blue wrote:
She should put house hold income that would include her husband's income. Credit Card companies ask for house hold income. Never declare as unemployed. It will be a huge negative when applying for credit.

From personal experience - my SO put "other" and they asked for POI - checkstubs - after approval and was shutdown. When he put "unemployed" he was approved, no questions, I assume the income was considered HHI or non-taxable.

Amex has been doing some 4506-T business lately for new apps, and since OP's DD is married, filing jointly, it may not matter, since 4506-T would show the spouse's income, anyway.

Re: Housewife apps - American Express. Income?

Shooting-For-800 — Tue, 15 Jun 2021 04:28:46 GMT

Any reason for the husband to not apply and make her AU?

Re: Housewife apps - American Express. Income?

FalconSteve — Tue, 15 Jun 2021 04:35:48 GMT

She should put "other" and use household income

Re: Housewife apps - American Express. Income?

Anonymous — Tue, 15 Jun 2021 07:11:39 GMT

@Shooting-For-800 wrote:
Any reason for the husband to not apply and make her AU?

Yes...because its not the 1950s. There are many valid reasons why spouses should not commingle credit.

The U.S. federal government specifically amended the Credit CARD Act (2009) to enable stay-at-home spouses/partners to acquire credit on their own using household income or income to which they have a "reasonable expectation of access."

@Anonymous Amex applications also include the option to claim "self employment" which is not is not an unreasonable assertion for a stay-at-home parent.

Re: Housewife apps - American Express. Income?

FalconSteve — Tue, 15 Jun 2021 11:26:32 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

Yes...because its not the 1950s. There are many valid reasons why spouses should not commingle credit.

This made me laugh, hard. You are absolutely right, both people should establish their own credit.

Re: Housewife apps - American Express. Income?

GatorGuy — Tue, 15 Jun 2021 14:48:27 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Shooting-For-800 wrote:
Any reason for the husband to not apply and make her AU?
Yes...because its not the 1950s. There are many valid reasons why spouses should not commingle credit.

Well said 😂😂😂😂

Re: Housewife apps - American Express. Income?

OmarGB9 — Tue, 15 Jun 2021 15:15:15 GMT

Let's keep it civil, please. As a reminder, posts must be FSR.

Re: Housewife apps - American Express. Income?

Anonymous — Tue, 15 Jun 2021 17:59:08 GMT

@Shooting-For-800 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@Shooting-For-800 wrote:
Any reason for the husband to not apply and make herAUU?
Yes...because its not the1950ss. There are many valid reasons why spouses should not commingle credit.

The U.S. federal government specifically amended the Credit CARD Act (2009) to enable stay-at-home spouses/partners to acquire credit on their own using household income or income to which they have a "reasonable expectation of access."

@AnonymousAmexx applications also include the option to claim "self employment" which is not is not an unreasonable assertion for a stay-at-home parent.

Let's quote from the CFPB's press release:

"Today, the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB) updated existing regulations to make it easier for spouses or partners who do not work outside of the home to qualify for credit cards. Today’s amendment, first proposed by the Bureau in October 2012, allows credit card issuers to consider income that a stay-at-home applicant, who is 21 or older, shares with a spouse or partner when evaluating the applicant for a new account or increased credit limit."

So I suppose questions about "commingling income" should be addressed to your elected representatives who make the laws.

Credit unions like NASA FCU are non-profit financial institutions owned by their members through the purchase of shares of ownership. (That's why CU savings accounts are called "share" accounts). Because their financial services are restricted to only members, CUs generally do not consider household income when making credit decisions unless both parties/spouses are members of the same credit union. National lenders like Amex don't have membership requirements and are in fact permitted by law to use household income to evaluate a stay-at-home spouse's "ability to repay."

Post edited by moderator to remove quote since original post has been removed.

Re: Housewife apps - American Express. Income?

unsungivy — Tue, 15 Jun 2021 18:31:59 GMT

Unless they SPECIFIY "individual income only, no household income" she should absolutely put the household income as HER income.

My husband makes twice what I do, but his scores suck (he apparently had a problem with paying things on time for years before me.) So, using my cleaner record with our incomes added together wins for apps. Afterall, I'm using the cards for household expenses, why wouldn't I use household income to pay for them?

That being said, I definitely feel more financially secure having things in my own name regardless of what happens in the future.

Re: Housewife apps - American Express. Income?

rostrow416 — Tue, 15 Jun 2021 19:44:30 GMT

If she files taxes with her husband and shares a joint bank account, then using household income is totally acceptable.

Re: Housewife apps - American Express. Income?

Anonymous — Tue, 15 Jun 2021 23:21:28 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
My daughter is a housewife and takes care of her three kids full time.

She was considering opening a new card. ...

1- Currently she has three old cards in her name (Shell 800, BofA 13K and Bank of the West 20k). She is AU on 5 of her husband's cards and has a joint auto Loan with her husband to help her credit.

she was interested in applying for an American Express card and I didn't know what to tell her to put for her income? She files jointly with her husband, but no income of her own.

also, would she apply as "unemployed" with 160k (the income that is his that they jointly file)? I thought that would look really weird. I noticed "other" is an option too.

any advice would help

Speaking as a person who was a stay-at-home mom for many years, and an independent contractor off & on for years, I listed household income. Speaking as someone who later on began to deal with a spouse who repeatedly trashed his credit, she absolutely needs to continue to establish credit in her own name - not just as an authorized user.

I'm not in any way saying that will ever be the case in her situation. But all sorts of changes can occur over the years and it's best to be proactive. Continuing to establish credit in her name, using household income, will give her some flexibility in the future, if she needs it. My husband and I were authorized users on each other's CCs for many years. When he continued to not learn from past credit abuse mistakes, I was able to remove myself from his cards and remove him from mine. That saved my FICOs. I maintain 800+ while he has consistently been in the 500's in recent years.

Plus, it's not just CCs & FICOs that are impacted. It also influences things like car insurance rates, opening new cellular accounts, etc. Building years of responsible credit history in her own name will help secure her future credit opportunities, if & when she needs them.

I listed "other" over the years when not working. A couple applications (don't remember which) gave the opportunity to fill in what you considered your title. I enjoyed putting "Home CEO & CFO" lol. While there are obviously no guarantees, I have never been financially reviewed by a creditor or had to submit POI. But if I had, our taxes have always been filed jointly, so I had the proof they would've needed. As long as she sticks with what can be verified on their joint returns, she should be fine. I have 2 Amex, using household income and applying in my own name.

Re: Housewife apps - American Express. Income?

FalconSteve — Wed, 16 Jun 2021 01:20:26 GMT

My wife and I went through a roughish patch and having accounts in each of our names was essential if it ever got rougher. Recently, I also got my own 2% card too. Financial independence is a big deal and AU cards do not give you that.

Re: Housewife apps - American Express. Income?

Anonymous — Thu, 01 Jul 2021 23:05:55 GMT

Update:

She decided to apply for the Gold card and it went to we need to review.

She put "other." There wasn't a spot for housewife or homemaker.

She put the amount from their joint taxes filed for 2020 (filed in February she says).

I will update when I hear more. Her husband says he's completely fine with doing the tax form thing and sat with her on the application in case they asked at end of the app (which they did not). Thanks for all the help. He really wants her to have established credit in the event anything ever happened to him.

Re: Housewife apps - American Express. Income?

arunkumarmm — Fri, 02 Jul 2021 13:36:33 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Update:

She decided to apply for the Gold card and it went to we need to review.

She put "other." There wasn't a spot for housewife or homemaker.

She put the amount from their joint taxes filed for 2020 (filed in February she says).

I will update when I hear more. Her husband says he's completely fine with doing the tax form thing and sat with her on the application in case they asked at end of the app (which they did not). Thanks for all the help. He really wants her to have established credit in the event anything ever happened to him.

DW has applied for amex BCE and was approved. She used our HHI as we jointly file tax. She is not having an SSN, only ITIN.

she also has a BoA CR, Cap1 Walmart, Savor1 and Sync Amazon store card. I had her as AU on my cards for a year or so before she applied.

Re: Housewife apps - American Express. Income?

Anonymous — Sun, 04 Jul 2021 22:43:32 GMT

Update 2:

She got an approval email today. I still told her they may ask for their joint returns, but she was honest about what they filed jointly. She was convinced they wouldn't approve her being a stay at home parent, but I had her read the two pages of responses and she got the courage.

I'll report back if anything else happens.

Thank you to everyone who contributed.

Re: Housewife apps - American Express. Income?

Red1Blue — Sun, 04 Jul 2021 23:01:48 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Update 2:

She got an approval email today. I still told her they may ask for their joint returns, but she was honest about what they filed jointly. She was convinced they wouldn't approve her being a stay at home parent, but I had her read the two pages of responses and she got the courage.

I'll report back if anything else happens.

Thank you to everyone who contributed.

Congrats for the approval.

Re: Housewife apps - American Express. Income?

FinStar — Mon, 05 Jul 2021 03:42:50 GMT

As the OP has provided an update on the approval, this thread is now locked and closed to new messages.

OP - feel free to start a new thread in the Approvals section if you wish to do so.