topic Re: Another Month- Another AMEX Denial in Credit Card Applications

Another Month- Another AMEX Denial

YoungMoney06 — Sun, 21 Nov 2021 22:10:51 GMT

Not sure what else gives... last THREE months I've ran heavy usage through my AMEX Gold Card (think $2k-$3k a month) and paid it off each month, having had the card for literally six months.

And to my detriment, AMEX still won't approve me for a revolver. I've been trying to get the Schwab Investor card... but I keep getting the same thing (FICO score, and collections from 6 years ago.)

I originally got a "your application is being processed and will receive a response within 14 days." But upon checking the application status online right after, the app shows up and is showing Declined. Looks that it's using a recent credit pull from back October 31st. But I just checked out my Experian report and seen they account reviewed yesterday (November 20th.)

BTW- Each app I've done I've placed 30-31 days in between to prevent from an auto-denial.

Has anyone else had any issues before? I know my EX8 probably isn't helping (currently at 643) but my UTIL is only 16% (as it stands, waiting for my DFS account to catch up here soon) and my CapOne $3k card to report which between those two should push my UTIL down to literally 7%. But even then, I'm losing faith that'll even help and may just sock drawer the Gold Card for the foreseeable future.

Re: Another Month- Another AMEX Denial

rostrow416 — Sun, 21 Nov 2021 23:28:08 GMT

Your probably gonna have to wait until that score is closer to 700 for a revolver. I was denied for the Gold card as recently as August 2020 with a score around 690. I wasn't able to get the Gold (and the Amex Amazon Business) until my EX was in the 720s, but I also had all my charge offs drop off at the end of 2020.

Re: Another Month- Another AMEX Denial

Brian_Earl_Spilner — Sun, 21 Nov 2021 23:48:33 GMT

They want a pretty much clean report and scores near 700 before they'll approve you for a core card.

Re: Another Month- Another AMEX Denial

greatscott85 — Sun, 21 Nov 2021 23:56:39 GMT

Just for clarity, have you only been with Amex for 6 months? Amex really likes to see some time.

2-3k is a decent amount but also you should keep in mind some crazy people (myself included) run 10k/month through Amex, not to downplay your spend but that may not be a huge amount to them.

Good news, your CO is going to be dropping off very soon! That's going to be awesome for you!

As to your util, although the % is down (great job), I would look to do AZEO. That should help as well!

Imo the Gold card is definitely not a sock drawer compared to the other cards you have. Stay patient, keep up the good work and you should be eligible soon. The revolvers are notoriously more difficult to qualify for.

Re: Another Month- Another AMEX Denial

FinStar — Mon, 22 Nov 2021 02:25:11 GMT

@YoungMoney06 wrote:
Not sure what else gives... last THREE months I've ran heavy usage through my AMEX Gold Card (think $2k-$3k a month) and paid it off each month, having had the card for literally six months.

And to my detriment, AMEX still won't approve me for a revolver. I've been trying to get the Schwab Investor card... but I keep getting the same thing (FICO score, and collections from 6 years ago.)

I originally got a "your application is being processed and will receive a response within 14 days." But upon checking the application status online right after, the app shows up and is showing Declined. Looks that it's using a recent credit pull from back October 31st. But I just checked out my Experian report and seen they account reviewed yesterday (November 20th.)

BTW- Each app I've done I've placed 30-31 days in between to prevent from an auto-denial.

Has anyone else had any issues before? I know my EX8 probably isn't helping (currently at 643) but my UTIL is only 16% (as it stands, waiting for my DFS account to catch up here soon) and my CapOne $3k card to report which between those two should push my UTIL down to literally 7%. But even then, I'm losing faith that'll even help and may just sock drawer the Gold Card for the foreseeable future.

Placing your Gold Card in the SD isn't really going to accomplish much if your goal is to eventually obtain the other card (or any AmEx revolver for that matter), honestly. This is almost like saying 'you don't want to play with me, fine I'll lock my toys in the basement'.

I think you're trying too hard. Your Gold Card is fairly young by AmEx [historical] standards and you're right, your scores may be on the lower end for that particular card. Until things improve with your overall EX score and the passage of time for the negative items, you're only going to spin your wheels. You definitely want to have things a bit more optimized, this way you don't get stuck with the $1K purgatory in the event that you get approved.

You mention 16% utilization. Is that across the board of for each card? Are any of your current cards over 20% utilization individually?

Re: Another Month- Another AMEX Denial

difringe — Mon, 22 Nov 2021 02:57:52 GMT

@YoungMoney06 wrote:
Has anyone else had any issues before? I know my EX8 probably isn't helping (currently at 643) but my UTIL is only 16% (as it stands, waiting for my DFS account to catch up here soon) and my CapOne $3k card to report which between those two should push my UTIL down to literally 7%. But even then, I'm losing faith that'll even help and may just sock drawer the Gold Card for the foreseeable future.

Just curious, if your UTIL is only 16% and your collections are from 6yrs ago, what negatives are keeping your EX8 at 643? That's the big limitation at this point; as noted in the thread, AMEX likes to see at least EX8 of 700. Do you have multiple collections, missed payments, etc.? Or is the 16% your current UTIL but on the Oct 31st report, it reported higher than that?

Considering you've only been with them for 6 months, and your collections are 6yrs old, you're probably better off just waiting for those to drop off.

Re: Another Month- Another AMEX Denial

YoungMoney06 — Mon, 22 Nov 2021 03:06:59 GMT

@FinStar wrote:
@YoungMoney06 wrote:
Not sure what else gives... last THREE months I've ran heavy usage through my AMEX Gold Card (think $2k-$3k a month) and paid it off each month, having had the card for literally six months.

And to my detriment, AMEX still won't approve me for a revolver. I've been trying to get the Schwab Investor card... but I keep getting the same thing (FICO score, and collections from 6 years ago.)

I originally got a "your application is being processed and will receive a response within 14 days." But upon checking the application status online right after, the app shows up and is showing Declined. Looks that it's using a recent credit pull from back October 31st. But I just checked out my Experian report and seen they account reviewed yesterday (November 20th.)

BTW- Each app I've done I've placed 30-31 days in between to prevent from an auto-denial.

Has anyone else had any issues before? I know my EX8 probably isn't helping (currently at 643) but my UTIL is only 16% (as it stands, waiting for my DFS account to catch up here soon) and my CapOne $3k card to report which between those two should push my UTIL down to literally 7%. But even then, I'm losing faith that'll even help and may just sock drawer the Gold Card for the foreseeable future.
Placing your Gold Card in the SD isn't really going to accomplish much if your goal is to eventually obtain the other card (or any AmEx revolver for that matter), honestly. This is almost like saying 'you don't want to play with me, fine I'll lock my toys in the basement'.

I think you're trying too hard. Your Gold Card is fairly young by AmEx [historical] standards and you're right, your scores may be on the lower end for that particular card. Until things improve with your overall EX score and the passage of time for the negative items, you're only going to spin your wheels. You definitely want to have things a bit more optimized, this way you don't get stuck with the $1K purgatory in the event that you get approved.

You mention 16% utilization. Is that across the board of for each card? Are any of your current cards over 20% utilization individually?

16% is the overall UTIL across all cards. On a per card basis, I have about 4 cards reporting over 20%, however, I paid down three of them down to 0%, 0%, 11%, respectively. Just waiting on the reports to catch up as they've closed in the last 2-3 weeks ago but the bureaus aren't reflecting yet.

that only leaves one card out of all my cards with a 22% utilization.

Re: Another Month- Another AMEX Denial

YoungMoney06 — Mon, 22 Nov 2021 03:13:09 GMT

@difringe wrote:
@YoungMoney06 wrote:
Has anyone else had any issues before? I know my EX8 probably isn't helping (currently at 643) but my UTIL is only 16% (as it stands, waiting for my DFS account to catch up here soon) and my CapOne $3k card to report which between those two should push my UTIL down to literally 7%. But even then, I'm losing faith that'll even help and may just sock drawer the Gold Card for the foreseeable future.
Just curious, if your UTIL is only 16% and your collections are from 6yrs ago, what negatives are keeping your EX8 at 643? That's the big limitation at this point; as noted in the thread, AMEX likes to see at least EX8 of 700. Do you have multiple collections, missed payments, etc.? Or is the 16% your current UTIL but on the Oct 31st report, it reported higher than that?

Considering you've only been with them for 6 months, and your collections are 6yrs old, you're probably better off just waiting for those to drop off.

I had four collections, but one actually ended up falling off all three reports in the last day or two. Unsure if it's cause of AAOA, but my FAKO scores were 680 across all three. The moment the collection dropped off they yanked 45 points! (head scratch)

My current utilization shows up 16% on my reports currently, but I paid off quite a chunk three weeks ago to where my utilization will be 7% overall once my reports refresh and the creditors report. Just waiting on the reports to update, even though it seems much slower to do so this month for some reason.

Re: Another Month- Another AMEX Denial

practical1 — Mon, 22 Nov 2021 13:50:42 GMT

Certainly agree with the other posters. Once only a single, very old collection shows-up and with utilization in the range you most recently have achieved, I'd think your FICO has a chance of recovering to a level that might just get you to an AMEX revolver threshhold -- with several collections accounts reporting, that's likely going to weigh you down for a while longer until they clear.

Keep paying things down, aim for that <10% or better utilization "sweet-spot" across the board and when nearly all of the other charge-offs dissapear, you should see a significant FICO rise. Then (and only then), consider reapplying to AMEX -- else you'll just continue to spin your wheels. Do keep showing your excellent spending and payment habits with the Gold Card, in the meanwhile; every bit of history will help.

Be patient; you're on the right trajectory. I was able to secure revolving cards from AMEX once my FICO scores approached the 680 neighborhood, even with one 5+ year old medical collection reporting on all 3 CRAs and a 30-year interval of being blacklisted with AMEX. So, it is possible (although this was pre-COVID; things may be different now).

Best of luck!

Re: Another Month- Another AMEX Denial

YoungMoney06 — Tue, 23 Nov 2021 17:45:06 GMT

Thanks everyone for the feedback.

I keep seeing the 700 number thrown around, but I'm assuming that doesn't apply to AMEX charge cards? I got an AMEX Gold back in June when my score was around 650 (again, which doesn't make the drop anymore surprising because nothing has changed with my report between then and now, not even UTIL.)

Re: Another Month- Another AMEX Denial

practical1 — Tue, 23 Nov 2021 18:32:01 GMT

@YoungMoney06

AMEX views charge cards as inherently a less risky proposition than revolvers.

Although technically, these cards "have no pre-set spending limit," in reality they do -- AMEX keeps this infomation to itself and dynamically adjusts individual spending authorizations according to its own internal, custom risk heuristics. Moreover, since these products (most of the time) require payment in full within a short interval after the statement drops, risk is further mitigated; hence AMEX is more willing to issue these products to customers with less pristine credit profiles than for revolving cards, which can entail taking on risk for extended periods of time and at pre-defined, stable levels.

Re: Another Month- Another AMEX Denial

increasingmyfico — Tue, 23 Nov 2021 18:55:41 GMT

Have you tried any of the other cards? Blue Cash Everyday/Preferred? I was able to get Gold and BCP at the same time witha 660ish score. Maybe the card you're aiming for isn't the one.

Re: Another Month- Another AMEX Denial

YoungMoney06 — Tue, 23 Nov 2021 21:42:38 GMT

@increasingmyfico wrote:
Have you tried any of the other cards? Blue Cash Everyday/Preferred? I was able to get Gold and BCP at the same time witha 660ish score. Maybe the card you're aiming for isn't the one.

I tried for BCP twice, previously, and got declined. Thought because it was a core card, it would be harder than say, a co-branded card like Schwab Investor. Although I would like to have the BCP.

Unfortunately my score took a nose dive (40 points) about a week ago. Still scratching my head... I had an overall credit limit increase by about $2k, and accounts updated with decreased balances and utilization, as well as one collection being dropped off. But then again, that was a FAKO drop so maybe it's sensitive.

Going to wait it out for a couple more weeks and let me balances catch up, especially my DFS that I paid down heavily this month (no interest payment plan due to expire December... beat them to it and saved about $500 of deferred interest.)

Re: Another Month- Another AMEX Denial

FinStar — Tue, 23 Nov 2021 21:50:27 GMT

@YoungMoney06 wrote:
@increasingmyfico wrote:
Have you tried any of the other cards? Blue Cash Everyday/Preferred? I was able to get Gold and BCP at the same time witha 660ish score. Maybe the card you're aiming for isn't the one.
I tried for BCP twice, previously, and got declined. Thought because it was a core card, it would be harder than say, a co-branded card like Schwab Investor. Although I would like to have the BCP.

Unfortunately my score took a nose dive (40 points) about a week ago. Still scratching my head... I had an overall credit limit increase by about $2k, and accounts updated with decreased balances and utilization, as well as one collection being dropped off. But then again, that was a FAKO drop so maybe it's sensitive.

Going to wait it out for a couple more weeks and let me balances catch up, especially my DFS that I paid down heavily this month (no interest payment plan due to expire December... beat them to it and saved about $500 of deferred interest.)

Yes, the Schwab Investor is considered a core type of card, similar in UW as BCE/BCP, ED/EDP, for example. It's not considered in the same UW criteria as the Hilton or Delta revolving cards, for instance (regardless whether Schwab is their partner/brand).

Re: Another Month- Another AMEX Denial

YoungMoney06 — Tue, 23 Nov 2021 22:03:15 GMT

@FinStar wrote:
@YoungMoney06 wrote:
@increasingmyfico wrote:
Have you tried any of the other cards? Blue Cash Everyday/Preferred? I was able to get Gold and BCP at the same time witha 660ish score. Maybe the card you're aiming for isn't the one.
I tried for BCP twice, previously, and got declined. Thought because it was a core card, it would be harder than say, a co-branded card like Schwab Investor. Although I would like to have the BCP.

Unfortunately my score took a nose dive (40 points) about a week ago. Still scratching my head... I had an overall credit limit increase by about $2k, and accounts updated with decreased balances and utilization, as well as one collection being dropped off. But then again, that was a FAKO drop so maybe it's sensitive.

Going to wait it out for a couple more weeks and let me balances catch up, especially my DFS that I paid down heavily this month (no interest payment plan due to expire December... beat them to it and saved about $500 of deferred interest.)
Yes, the Schwab Investor is considered a core type of card, similar in UW as BCE/BCP, ED/EDP, for example. It's not considered in the same UW criteria as the Hilton or Delta revolving cards, for instance (regardless whether Schwab is their partner/brand).

I've tried applying for the Hilton card once too one month but got a no-go. I think that one was closer to when the Gold card was opened about 6 months ago. I've heard the Delta card is pretty lax in comparison to the core cards.

Either way, I think patience is key right now, even though it's hard. LOL but I've got the rejection already, just waiting out the 30 days (maybe some more if my credit isn't reflective of AMEX happy specs) and see where we are in a few weeks.

Will say, I am curious about applying for the Delta card. I rarely fly, but have business travel for my employer coming in January to Atlanta and am likely to fly Delta. But can't justify getting a card the one flight... would like a good travel card where rewards are earned no matter the airline, hotel, or rental car.

But that's just me thinking out loud. Thanks @FinStar

Re: Another Month- Another AMEX Denial

practical1 — Tue, 23 Nov 2021 22:12:10 GMT

At the risk of stating the obvious -- you are checking the FICO 8 on AMEX's own site, aren't you? Their own cadence for updates is a little different that on some of the other sources.

When you feel you are back in decent shape to submit a new revolving application (may it be soon -- but don't rush things), do make absolutely sure the FICO score listed under your Profile page (a bit hidden -- you'll need to hunt for it) also reflects an adequate level -- ideally, at least 720. The TU Vantage score offered through their Credit Monitoring feature, of course, means nothing.

Re: Another Month- Another AMEX Denial

YoungMoney06 — Tue, 23 Nov 2021 22:32:01 GMT

@practical1 wrote:
At the risk of stating the obvious -- you are checking the FICO 8 on AMEX's own site, aren't you? Their own cadence for updates is a little different that on some of the other sources.

When you feel you are back in decent shape to submit a new revolving application (may it be soon -- but don't rush things), do make absolutely sure the FICO score listed under your Profile page (a bit hidden -- you'll need to hunt for it) also reflects an adequate level -- ideally, at least 720. The TU Vantage score offered through their Credit Monitoring feature, of course, means nothing.

I've been using it, yes. I actually use the one based on MyFico as I have the monthly subscription, but of course, the Fico 8 EX score I'm looking at is the same score. Doesn't look as though AMEX has updated the score since October 31st, even though my actual report shows they soft pulled on November 20th (a day before I applied for the Schwab Investor card.)

Re: Another Month- Another AMEX Denial

Junejer — Tue, 23 Nov 2021 23:56:47 GMT

I won't add much different from the great advice you already got here. Be patient and continue to use your Gold card as you have been. As a bit of a DP, I got my BCE when my EX FICO 8 was at 698. Doubled the CL to its current state when my FICO 8 was 710.

Stay the course.