topic Re: Wells Fargo Reflect Denial --> Bank of America BankAmericard Approval in Credit Card Applications

WF Reflect Denial --> BofA BankAmericard Approval --> BofA Change of Heart within Less Than 2 Hours

Absolution16 — Tue, 14 Mar 2023 20:29:10 GMT

EDITED: It WAS an approval data point, until it became NOT, in less than 2 hours. Read Edits at the end for more.

A few days ago, I submitted an application for Reflect card with Wells Fargo. I am located in Southern California, and they pulled TU. I was hit with a message indicating that they would need to verify more information. I called them, and they requested that I fax over a copy of Government-issed ID, as well as 2 forms of documentation that can verify me with the address. I promptly faxed it to them, and then a day later, I received an e-mail stating that I was denied, and that I should be getting a mail explaining the reasoning behind their decision. I have had no relationship with Wells Fargo, so I figured that had a lot to do with their decision. Time to move on and forget about Wells Fargo now and into the distant future. Too bad because I was hoping to try my luck for their Bilt Mastercard. If they deny me for Reflect, I am sure I will get denied for Bilt. Oh well.

Yesterday, I elected to try my luck with Bank of America. I just have an auto loan with them, a long 6-year one at that, which I did on purpose to try to stretch it out as long as possible. I am on the final year of the installment, with 9 more months to go. No checking or savings account with them.

I applied for the BankAmericard, the BT card with the 21-month offer. I knew that they were going to pull EX, but I also had a fraud alert placed with Experian in June of last year. I managed to get the fraud alert off TransUnion, hence why it was not an issue with my application with Wells Fargo. Equifax told me that they never even got the fraud alert placed on my report, which I verified personally by checking the report itself. I am not sure whose fault that would be... Experian for not forwarding it properly or Equifax for not handling it even though they should have received it and placed the alert.

Anyway, I got the same message as I did with Wells Fargo, indicating that they needed to verify more information. I fully expected that, due to the active fraud alert on my Experian credit report. Unlike Wells Fargo that gave me a telephone number to call, Bank of America did not provide me one. I tried the backdoor numbers from the backdoor number thread on this forum, but they were numbers that are no longer working.

Speaking with the agent at the general customer service number got me nowhere, as he was only able to verify my application, but I was only told to wait for a phone call, e-mail, or snail mail. As a last resort, I went onto Reddit and found another number that people over there indicated that they had success. Upon calling that number, I was connected with a lady that verified basic information about myself. As a last step, she sent me a verification code to my cell phone, and upon confirming the code with her, I was instantly approved for 9K SL.

I use my Google Voice number for all non-personal, non-professional use, and that is the number that seems to be registered as my primary number with the credit bureaus. It helps me thin out a LOT of spam and advertisement calls on my personal line. The only bank that doesn't work with this is Chase so far, so I am not sure how things would pan out if, in the near future, I happen to run across same situation with verification with them. I am planning to apply for both of their Freedom cards, one next year and the other the year after that.

The number I called was (888) 503-6091.

For reference:

*Pre-Existing Credit Cards Prior to Application*

Chase Sapphire Preferred: 24.5K CL <Started @16K SL>

AMEX Blue Cash Everyday: 9K SL <Started @1K SL>

AMEX Everyday Preferred: 20.5K CL <Started @ 6K SL>

Capital One QuickSilver: 5K CL <Started as Venture @15K SL, then PC'ed to QuickSilver, then CLD to 5K>

Discover IT Miles: 5K CL <Started as Discover (5% Rotating One) @ 4K SL, PC'ed by Discover, not me>

Apple Card: 6.5K CL <Started @6K CL, Got a $500 CLI two days ago>

Average Age of Accounts: 7 Years

Age of Oldest Accounts: 7 Years

Utilization: 21%

Income: 85K

Rent: $850

New Accounts Opened in the Past 24 Months: 1 (Apple Card in October of 2021)

*Inquiries Prior to Application in the Last 24 Months*

Experian: 0

Equifax: 0

TransUnion: 1 (The Wells Fargo one that I got denied a day prior to)

I am leaving this for my personal record, as well as to serve as data point for anyone that may find this useful.

EDIT1: Just checked Bank of America Application Status page and it came out like this. I wonder if this is an error? Wondering if I should bother to call again or not. More drama perhaps?

EDIT2: I called Bank of America at the same phone number again to double check. This time, another lady informed me that my application is back to "PENDING" status, with a letter to arrive in the mail in 7-10 days explaining whatever it is that need to be done additionally. I was told that it is NOT a denial "yet." How things change so quickly within a matter of less than 2 hours.

I am not sure if this is another step in the verification process due to the fraud alert or something else entirely. They may want documentation like what Wells Fargo requested, or maybe even more, like POI, Bank Statements, Tax Returns, etc? At least with Wells Fargo, they were able to tell me upfront what they wanted, but this time, Bank of America is wanting me to wait for the letter in the mail.

So I am back to Square One.

EDIT3: A day passes, and I called the same number again. The gentleman tells me he is in Underwriting (UW). He had clearer explanation as to what might be happening. I was told that my application may have been satisfactory on UW's side, but it was only the 1st step, and the next step involves Fraud/Legal Department which UW has no access to any kind of information from them. My application, most likely, after the approval from UW, was stopped to prevent the scenario where a card could be mailed out prematurely that could be followed by automatic closing of the card account, which creates confusion and chaos. So basically, I was approved by UW, but something in their system irked Fraud/Legal Department to take action and put the application status back to pending. I was told that Fraud/Legal can always overturn approval decision made by UW, and if that happens, all correspondence to reach the customer is made by either direct phone call or letter in the mail. Any additional documentation has to be either mailed or faxed.

I explained my concern about the 30-day window of the initial Experian HP. Should the entire process of approval take longer than 30 days from the initial application, another HP would be required. Unfortunately, I now have no choice but to wait for the letter (or hopefully for a phone call which I seriously doubt would happen) and make prompt actions accordingly. Since my application was made on March 7th, I think I have until April 5th to avoid another HP.

Since it seems my application was satisfactory for UW, I am assuming that there was no problem in terms of my credit worthiness or anything related to numbers and personal credit data. If Fraud/Legal is being involved, I am hoping this is simply due to the active fraud alert on my Experian report, a mere process to stop fraud and to identify me as an actual applicant. Hopefully there is nothing more than that.

I will be sure to update again once the letter/phone call arrives.

EDIT4: 03/13/2023

I got letters from both BoA and WF. WF letter just stated that they could not approve because they were "unable to verify identity."

I called WF the day after my initial application with them, verified what they wanted from me, and faxed the documents they wanted. At that time, I had faxed over my passport, recently renewed vehicle registration, and my most recent auto insurance bill.

I called WF again today, and it turns out that they did not accept my vehicle registration because it is "post-dated." It shows valid dates from 04/02/2023 to 04/02/2024. I was told they want the one with the date showing the current date active. Such a stupid reason to "not be able to identify" me. So now I need to fax them another copy that was renewed last year, in addition to my driver license and another form of documentation that verifies my home address.

They want the entirety of the documentation, meaning, if I were to send them a copy of my cell phone bill, I would have to fax over the entire pages, not just the front page showing the address. Also, take note that, any bills submitted as documentation cannot have any late charges on them. So for those using this as DP, take note.

As for BoA, they also want additional documentation to "verify" me, specifically requesting form SSA-89 and POI in the forms of either the latest paystub within the last 30 days or last year's tax returns. All this after initially approving me over the phone, only to reverse it 1 hour after.

Since I only want ONE credit card and don't need two for the purpose of BT, I decided to first send in the documents to WF first and see how that goes. I was told, at this time, there are no other documentation they want, like what BoA is requesting. If it does not work out with WF, only then, I would go ahead with BoA, to make sure I only open up ONE account.

I am doing this because WF seems to at least update the application status faster, and I can always call them and inquire about the status as to what other documentation they want from me. BoA told me my application is being handled by Fraud, and only they have the details. Problem with BoA is that UW and regular customer service told me there is no way to contact them and they have no access to information from Fraud. That means I would have to wait for another letter in the mail to get details on my application status. Also, the signed SSA-89 and POI have to be MAILED to them, further slowing down the process.

WF rep told me my application is good for 60 days, whereas BoA letter indicated that they need the requested documentation within 30 days from the date of the letter.

I am all in for banks trying to protect people from fraud, but I would be lying if I were to say that I am totally fine with what has taken place. It is frustrating, but I guess it is what it is.

I will update again soon.

EDIT5: 03/14/2023

I got an e-mail from WF, confirming approval for 7.5K SL. I will be keeping this one, and ignore the BoA request for documentation, as I only need ONE new credit card at this time. I will continue with posting in Approval section.

https://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Credit-Card-Approvals/Wells-Fargo-Reflect-Approved-for-7-5K-SL/m-p/6656695#M850971

Mods, feel free to close this thread. Thank you.

Re: Wells Fargo Reflect Denial --> Bank of America BankAmericard Approval

GZG — Wed, 08 Mar 2023 21:21:55 GMT

@Absolution16 wrote:
I use my Google Voice number for all non-personal, non-professional use, and that is the number that seems to be registered as my primary number with the credit bureaus. It helps me thin out a LOT of spam and advertisement calls on my personal line. The only bank that doesn't work with this is Chase so far, so I am not sure how things would pan out if, in the near future, I happen to run across same situation with verification with them.

I know personally I wasn't able to verify myself for banking purposes with Chase using a google voice number because it wasn't listed on the account despite providing all of the accurate information.

When I called in from the phone number on file, I was able to verify.

Is the google voice number listed on the Chase account itself and it's not allowed for being a VOIP?

Consider a Pixel phone if you're in the US, their spam and call screen is well beyond anything anybody else has made, in my experience.

Congrats on the Approval!!

Re: Wells Fargo Reflect Denial --> Bank of America BankAmericard Approval

SweetCreditObsession — Wed, 08 Mar 2023 21:34:32 GMT

@Absolution16, congratulations on the BofA approval! I really appreciated your detailed DPs.

From personal experience, BofA has a good potential to grow quite a bit.

As for the WF, it's possible that you might be able to recon the denial once you get your letter. Don't sweat it in the meantime.

Re: Wells Fargo Reflect Denial --> Bank of America BankAmericard Approval

Absolution16 — Wed, 08 Mar 2023 21:34:39 GMT

@GZG

Thank you!

I initially placed my Google Voice number with Chase, only to realize that I was not able to get any verification messages from them with that number. Only then did I elect to add my personal cell phone number, which had to be designated as primary number with them. I still have both numbers as contact phone number with Chase. They seem to be the only financial institution that I came across personally that does not allow verification sms/calls with any VoIP numbers.

As for the Pixel phones... I have used the Pixel 2 XL for 3 years in the past. Good phones, but I prefer iPhones and Galaxy phones. I do like their spam filter and voice transcription features though. Pretty solid features.

Re: Wells Fargo Reflect Denial --> Bank of America BankAmericard Approval

coreyb80 — Wed, 08 Mar 2023 21:36:24 GMT

Congrats on the approval!

Re: Wells Fargo Reflect Denial --> Bank of America BankAmericard Approval

Absolution16 — Wed, 08 Mar 2023 21:43:09 GMT

@SweetCreditObsession

Thank you!

Seeing as I got the 21-month BT card from Bank of America, I have ZERO use for the Reflect. I initially chose to apply with Wells Fargo, because I was planning to PC the Reflect after the 21-month term to some of their other offerings like Active Cash or Autograph. I think Wells Fargo's lineup of credit cards are better and more interesting than what Bank of America offers. But unfortunately, that plan did not seem to have worked out. Do you know if BankAmericard continues to get BT offers after the intro period, like Capital One and Discover? If so, I may just keep it without PCing it, as I really don't see any other credit cards from Bank of America that interest me enough to PC into.

I spent a lot of hours reading up upon people's differing experiences with Wells Fargo, and I took a gamble. I will have to wait and see what the letter says, but unless they are willing to recon for a different credit card, I don't think I will bother with them for now.

Re: Wells Fargo Reflect Denial --> Bank of America BankAmericard Approval

SweetCreditObsession — Wed, 08 Mar 2023 21:47:06 GMT

@Absolution16, that's a great question. I'm not sure if the Bank Americard offers seemingly recurring BT offers like Disco seems to. That's a good research project to be performed on these boards.

I personally don't have the BankAmericard, but the CashRewards card. I get 3% on online orders which yields me quite a bit of bonuses each month (I shop online quite a bit)!

I agree with you - if WF won't recon, it's not worth wasting the effort.

Re: Wells Fargo Reflect Denial --> Bank of America BankAmericard Approval

Absolution16 — Wed, 08 Mar 2023 22:13:36 GMT

@coreyb80

Thank you!

@SweetCreditObsession

3% on online purchases is nice. Unfortunately, my BCE covers that. I will have to see what other categories the Cash Rewards card offers for 3% bonus. If not that, I am really hoping the BankAmericard can stay forever as a BT card.

Re: Wells Fargo Reflect Denial --> Bank of America BankAmericard Approval

JoeRockhead — Wed, 08 Mar 2023 22:20:00 GMT

Any denial can be a bummer, but very nice SL and approval on the Americard, congratulations!

Re: Wells Fargo Reflect Denial --> Bank of America BankAmericard Approval

CreditMagic7 — Wed, 08 Mar 2023 22:20:21 GMT

Congratulations on the approval!

Re: Wells Fargo Reflect Denial --> Bank of America BankAmericard Approval

Yasselife — Wed, 08 Mar 2023 22:23:05 GMT

Congratulations on your BoA approval ! @Absolution16

Re: Wells Fargo Reflect Denial --> Bank of America BankAmericard Approval

Absolution16 — Wed, 08 Mar 2023 22:32:37 GMT

@GZG

@SweetCreditObsession

Thank you!

I just went on the Bank of America Application Status Page, and it came out like this. More drama perhaps?

Re: Wells Fargo Reflect Denial --> Bank of America BankAmericard Approval

SweetCreditObsession — Wed, 08 Mar 2023 22:51:32 GMT

@Absolution16 - That's INSANE! I'm so sorry to hear this news.

I wonder if it has anything to do with the fraud alert - perhaps they're having issues with ID validation? Is there erroneous information on your CR?

I have a feeling there is more to this. I can't wait to hear what was in the letter.

Re: Wells Fargo Reflect Denial --> Bank of America BankAmericard Approval

Yasselife — Wed, 08 Mar 2023 22:56:26 GMT

I'm sorry that happened to you, OP. I can't guess what could have gone wrong, your profile looks good with only one new account in 24 mo. Is there anything derogatory on your reports?

Re: Wells Fargo Reflect Denial --> Bank of America BankAmericard Approval

JoeRockhead — Wed, 08 Mar 2023 23:02:47 GMT

Well that wasn't very nice, now was it @Absolution16. Hopefully it's just some sort of snafu, or other nonsense you can remedy (sooner rather than later). I too am curious as to what was behind the change of heart.

Re: Wells Fargo Reflect Denial --> Bank of America BankAmericard Approval

Absolution16 — Wed, 08 Mar 2023 23:14:37 GMT

@SweetCreditObsession

@Yasselife

@JoeRockhead

I called Bank of America at the same phone number again to double check. This time, another lady informed me that my application is back to "PENDING" status, with a letter to arrive in the mail in 7-10 days explaining whatever it is that need to be done additionally. I was told that it is NOT a denial "yet." How things change so quickly within a matter of less than 2 hours.

I don't have any erroneous information on my credit report, nor any delinquent/derogatory remarks/accounts. So I am not sure exactly what is going on.

It was a SUPER FAST change of heart on their part. I have never experienced this myself, and I don't think I have run across anyone on this forum who has experienced the same. I would have preferred being told what I am being told now when I called the 1st time. It certainly doesn't feel very nice.

So I am back to Square One.

Re: Wells Fargo Reflect Denial --> Bank of America BankAmericard Approval --> Back To Pending

NoMoreDebt — Wed, 08 Mar 2023 23:19:01 GMT

congrats on the approval

Re: WF Reflect Denial --> BofA BankAmericard Approval --> BofA Change of Heart within Less Than 2 Hr

Absolution16 — Thu, 09 Mar 2023 00:08:55 GMT

I am wondering if I should get my foot in the door with PenFed perhaps, by maybe opening up a savings and/or checking account with minimum required $ amount. I have no way to join Navy Federal, so that is out of the question.

I think PenFed's Gold card for BT or PowerCash for straight cashback are pretty interesting. But since I am not a member yet, I am not sure about my chances. I have read that they are very stingy especially to non-member applicants, and require a lot of documentation up front, including POI or tax returns.

They will surely pull Equifax on me, which is now my only report without a HP. I am rather thankful that Bank of America and Wells Fargo chose two different CRAs for my applications, as it seems likely the 2 HPs may just become a waste, in terms of credit, as well as time and effort.

Re: Wells Fargo Reflect Denial --> Bank of America BankAmericard Approval

Yasselife — Thu, 09 Mar 2023 00:03:50 GMT

@Absolution16 I became a Penfed member by depositing $5 into a share account then waited 6 months before applying for a cc, is $10k CL stingy to you? I've had the 1st card 10 months ago and a second one 4 months ago(also $10k).

they haven't asked me for any documentation or POI.

Re: WF Reflect Denial --> BofA BankAmericard Approval --> BofA Change of Heart within Less Tha

Absolution16 — Thu, 09 Mar 2023 00:11:44 GMT

@Yasselife

That is great to know. Maybe I should follow your footsteps.

You recommend that I hold off on applying for a credit card for at least 6 months after becoming a member, I assume, and not outright app'ing for a card as a non-member?