topic Re: AMEX Denial.... in Credit Card Applications

AMEX Denial....

TheRealTwin1102 — Mon, 25 Mar 2024 15:03:04 GMT

Apped for AMEX 3/21/24 - Denied - Basically said the status of my previous account. BK'd CH7 discharged 12/2018 (past the 5 year 1 month mark); Burned Amex for a small balance. I just paid the balance off - IN FULL; Mailed priority mail. How long should I wait to app and what are the scores typically needed?

Re: AMEX Denial....

Horseshoez — Mon, 25 Mar 2024 15:35:33 GMT

@TheRealTwin1102 wrote:
Apped for AMEX 3/21/24 - Denied - Basically said the status of my previous account. BK'd CH7 discharged 12/2018 (past the 5 year 1 month mark); Burned Amex for a small balance. I just paid the balance off - IN FULL; Mailed priority mail. How long should I wait to app and what are the scores typically needed?

Conventional wisdom says to wait for four to six weeks, then reapply.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Re: AMEX Denial....

Brian_Earl_Spilner — Mon, 25 Mar 2024 15:39:48 GMT

You just need to wait until the payment posts and clears. As for scores, it's dependant on the card. Cobranded and charge cards can be had with scores as low as 640. Core cards typically require 680+.

Re: AMEX Denial....

TheRealTwin1102 — Mon, 25 Mar 2024 17:34:32 GMT

Thank you! Sorry, I'm new to this. I know what co-branded cards are like Macy's etc. Charge cards are the green, gold and rose cards? Is everything else considered core?

Right now my FICO 8 scores are EQ - 694 TU - 685 and EX - 699

My utlization might not be all that great.

Re: AMEX Denial....

Horseshoez — Mon, 25 Mar 2024 17:59:08 GMT

@TheRealTwin1102 wrote:
Thank you! Sorry, I'm new to this. I know what co-branded cards are like Macy's etc. Charge cards are the green, gold and rose cards? Is everything else considered core?

Right now my FICO 8 scores are EQ - 694 TU - 685 and EX - 699

My utlization might not be all that great.

I may be wrong, but I am like 95% sure the Macy's card is not a co-branded card like, say a Delta SkyMiles card; the Macy's card is simply a credit card which happens to use the AMEX network in lieu of Visa, MasterCard, or Discover.

Re: AMEX Denial....

CorpCrMgr1 — Mon, 25 Mar 2024 19:51:04 GMT

Sorry for the denial. I was about 700 and had never burned AmEx.

Re: AMEX Denial....

Brian_Earl_Spilner — Mon, 25 Mar 2024 20:38:25 GMT

@TheRealTwin1102 wrote:
Thank you! Sorry, I'm new to this. I know what co-branded cards are like Macy's etc. Charge cards are the green, gold and rose cards? Is everything else considered core?

Right now my FICO 8 scores are EQ - 694 TU - 685 and EX - 699

My utlization might not be all that great.

The charge cards are the green, gold, and platinum.

Cobranded are the Amex partners like Hilton, Delta, and Marriott. Offered directly through Amex. Technically the Macy's Amex is a cobranded card, but there's no partnership. The best you might get from those types of cobranded cards is access to Amex offers

The rest of their lineup are their core cards.

Re: AMEX Denial....

Horseshoez — Mon, 25 Mar 2024 20:53:42 GMT

@Brian_Earl_Spilner wrote:
Technically the Macy's Amex is a cobranded card, but there's no partnership. The best you might get from those types of cobranded cards is access to Amex offers.

Hmmm, maybe I'm looking at the Macy's card incorrectly; I put it in the same bucket as a "Credit One Bank American Express Card", which I would argue is simply a credit card which happens to use the AMEX network instead of the others. How does the Macy's card qualify as being co-branded?

Re: AMEX Denial....

Zoostation1 — Mon, 25 Mar 2024 23:35:09 GMT

@HorseshoezThat's how I was thinking of it as well, but the more I thought about it @Brian_Earl_Spilner is right. It's not an Amex co-brand, but it's a Citi co-brand sice they are the issuing bank. It just happens to run on the Amex network instead of MC or Visa. I think we all just tend to associate co-brands as being a MC or Visa if they're not Amex issued.

Re: AMEX Denial....

Horseshoez — Tue, 26 Mar 2024 01:45:01 GMT

@Zoostation1 wrote:
@HorseshoezThat's how I was thinking of it as well, but the more I thought about it @Brian_Earl_Spilner is right. It's not an Amex co-brand, but it's a Citi co-brand sice they are the issuing bank. It just happens to run on the Amex network instead of MC or Visa. I think we all just tend to associate co-brands as being a MC or Visa if they're not Amex issued.

Now I'm really confused, like, more than I was before.

Re: AMEX Denial....

Brian_Earl_Spilner — Tue, 26 Mar 2024 05:32:19 GMT

Technically any combination of brands is cobranded. So, cap1 and visa is a cobranding since both brands are on the same product. The way most people look at cobranded for cards is there has to be a partnership like Amex with Hilton, Delta, and Marriott. Another form would be the cards that use the Amex network and have access to Amex benefits like Amex offers, price protection, etc. Credit 1 has the added benefit of being promoted on Amex's website, probably since it's an exclusive version. The Macy's Amex is a cobrand between Macy's and Amex serviced by Citi. Citi's brand is not on the card. For the OPs question I referred to cobranded as the cards offered directly by Amex as they do the approvals versus Citi handling it for Macy's or Credit 1 for theirs.

Re: AMEX Denial....

Horseshoez — Tue, 26 Mar 2024 10:58:52 GMT

@Brian_Earl_Spilner wrote:
Technically any combination of brands is cobranded. So, cap1 and visa is a cobranding since both brands are on the same product. The way most people look at cobranded for cards is there has to be a partnership like Amex with Hilton, Delta, and Marriott. Another form would be the cards that use the Amex network and have access to Amex benefits like Amex offers, price protection, etc. Credit 1 has the added benefit of being promoted on Amex's website, probably since it's an exclusive version. The Macy's Amex is a cobrand between Macy's and Amex serviced by Citi. Citi's brand is not on the card. For the OPs question I referred to cobranded as the cards offered directly by Amex as they do the approvals versus Citi handling it for Macy's or Credit 1 for theirs.

I would argue contrary to your premis; just because any give credit card uses any given payment network, that does not in any way mean the cards are co-branded.

Re: AMEX Denial....

TheRealTwin1102 — Tue, 26 Mar 2024 15:15:15 GMT

Thanks for all the replies. I guess if it's on AMEX website , that's a way to determine whether it's a co-brand or not. I will let you all know after about 10 days to give the payment time to post. Thanks for all your help.

Re: AMEX Denial....

Horseshoez — Tue, 26 Mar 2024 15:29:59 GMT

@TheRealTwin1102 wrote:
Thanks for all the replies. I guess if it's on AMEX website , that's a way to determine whether it's a co-brand or not. I will let you all know after about 10 days to give the payment time to post. Thanks for all your help.

Yes, based upon how I understand the term "co-branded", if the card is on the AMEX web site, it is co-branded, all others are simply credit cards which use the AMEX network.

Re: AMEX Denial....

Brian_Earl_Spilner — Tue, 26 Mar 2024 17:51:41 GMT

@Horseshoez wrote:
@Brian_Earl_Spilner wrote:
Technically any combination of brands is cobranded. So, cap1 and visa is a cobranding since both brands are on the same product. The way most people look at cobranded for cards is there has to be a partnership like Amex with Hilton, Delta, and Marriott. Another form would be the cards that use the Amex network and have access to Amex benefits like Amex offers, price protection, etc. Credit 1 has the added benefit of being promoted on Amex's website, probably since it's an exclusive version. The Macy's Amex is a cobrand between Macy's and Amex serviced by Citi. Citi's brand is not on the card. For the OPs question I referred to cobranded as the cards offered directly by Amex as they do the approvals versus Citi handling it for Macy's or Credit 1 for theirs.

I would argue contrary to your premis; just because any give credit card uses any given payment network, that does not in any way mean the cards are co-branded.

Are both brands on the product? Yes. Was there an agreement reached between the brands? Yes, otherwise they wouldn't be on the Amex network. Are there additional benefits available to the cardholder that wouldn't be available on a different payment network due to the partnership? Yes. Amex has Amex offers and Amex perks. Mastercard has their elite and world elite perks if offered by the issuer. Visa has their signature and infinite perks if offered by the issuer. There's a partnership and both brands are on the card as well as in marketing. By definition, it's cobranded.

Again, the way people refer to cobranded in relation to cards is if there is something more substantial such as earning points. That's fine, but that doesn't change the technicalities.

Re: AMEX Denial....

Horseshoez — Tue, 26 Mar 2024 17:56:10 GMT

@Brian_Earl_Spilner wrote:
@Horseshoez wrote:
@Brian_Earl_Spilner wrote:
Technically any combination of brands is cobranded. So, cap1 and visa is a cobranding since both brands are on the same product. The way most people look at cobranded for cards is there has to be a partnership like Amex with Hilton, Delta, and Marriott. Another form would be the cards that use the Amex network and have access to Amex benefits like Amex offers, price protection, etc. Credit 1 has the added benefit of being promoted on Amex's website, probably since it's an exclusive version. The Macy's Amex is a cobrand between Macy's and Amex serviced by Citi. Citi's brand is not on the card. For the OPs question I referred to cobranded as the cards offered directly by Amex as they do the approvals versus Citi handling it for Macy's or Credit 1 for theirs.

I would argue contrary to your premis; just because any give credit card uses any given payment network, that does not in any way mean the cards are co-branded.
Are both brands on the product? Yes. Was there an agreement reached between the brands? Yes, otherwise they wouldn't be on the Amex network. Are there additional benefits available to the cardholder that wouldn't be available on a different payment network due to the partnership? Yes. Amex has Amex offers and Amex perks. Mastercard has their elite and world elite perks if offered by the issuer. Visa has their signature and infinite perks if offered by the issuer. There's a partnership and both brands are on the card as well as in marketing. By definition, it's cobranded.

Again, the way people refer to cobranded in relation to cards is if there is something more substantial such as earning points. That's fine, but that doesn't change the technicalities.

I guess we're going to need to agree to disagree; the fact the network brand is on any given card is only to advise the customer and the vendor which network the card is on so they don't bother trying accept a card on a network they don't accept. Yes, I know, leading digit 3=AMEX & JCB, 4=Visa, 5=Mastercard, and 6=Discover, but most folks don't know that.

Re: AMEX Denial....

FicoMike0 — Wed, 27 Mar 2024 03:13:43 GMT

I didn't know that. I just checked six cards, true for amex, visa and mc both credit and debit. Have no disco.

do you know if card numbers are checksummed?

Re: AMEX Denial....

butterpecan — Wed, 27 Mar 2024 03:37:39 GMT

@Horseshoez wrote:
@Zoostation1 wrote:
@HorseshoezThat's how I was thinking of it as well, but the more I thought about it @Brian_Earl_Spilner is right. It's not an Amex co-brand, but it's a Citi co-brand sice they are the issuing bank. It just happens to run on the Amex network instead of MC or Visa. I think we all just tend to associate co-brands as being a MC or Visa if they're not Amex issued.
Now I'm really confused, like, more than I was before.

@Horseshoez Me too! So the More Rewards with NFCU is like Macy's too? DH just got that card from NFCU. I'd like the Amex perks too but no interest in Macy's or citi when the time comes.

Re: AMEX Denial....

Horseshoez — Wed, 27 Mar 2024 11:06:20 GMT

@FicoMike0 wrote:
I didn't know that. I just checked six cards, true for amex, visa and mc both credit and debit. Have no disco.
do you know if card numbers are checksummed?

Yes, the least significant digit is a Mod-10 Checkdigit.

Re: AMEX Denial....

Horseshoez — Wed, 27 Mar 2024 11:08:22 GMT

@butterpecan wrote:
@Horseshoez wrote:
@Zoostation1 wrote:
@HorseshoezThat's how I was thinking of it as well, but the more I thought about it @Brian_Earl_Spilner is right. It's not an Amex co-brand, but it's a Citi co-brand sice they are the issuing bank. It just happens to run on the Amex network instead of MC or Visa. I think we all just tend to associate co-brands as being a MC or Visa if they're not Amex issued.
Now I'm really confused, like, more than I was before.
@Horseshoez Me too! So the More Rewards with NFCU is like Macy's too? DH just got that card from NFCU. I'd like the Amex perks too but no interest in Macy's or citi when the time comes.

Yes, the NFCU is roughly akin to the Macy's card in that neither are co-branded (per my understanding of the term); the only co-branded AMEX cards can be found on the AMEX website.