topic Re: Rolling Over Credit Card Debt - Strategy and ?s regarding 0% Credit Cards in Post App-orama Worl in Credit Card Applications

Rolling Over Credit Card Debt - Strategy and ?s regarding 0% Credit Cards in Post App-orama World

drchaos — Fri, 20 Dec 2024 15:43:54 GMT

Rolling Over Credit Card Debt - Strategy and ?s regarding 0% Credit Cards in Post App-orama World

My goal is to take a 60 day rollover loan from my ROTH IRA, pay off or down my existing credit cards and apply for 2-4 new ones.

Currently I have the following credit card debt:

[b]$7,389.60 - NFCU Visa Signature CashRewards Plus (0.99% interest until 1/27/2025) - Limit $8,100.00
$9,110.56, AMEX Blue Business Cash(TM) (0.00% Interest until 2/7/2025) - Limit $10,000.00 - Does not show on Credit Karma
$4,475.16 - Citi ThankYou® Preferred (0.99% interest until 6/1/2025) - Limit $4,800.00
$22,159.10 - TD Flexpay Platinum VISA (0.00% interest until 7/1/2025) - Limit $23,400.00
$7,917 .59 - Alliant Credit Union Visa Platinum W/Rewards Plan (0.00% interest until 12/1/2025) - Limit $10,000.00[/b]

$51.052.01 Subtotal for 0.00 to 0.99% Credit Card Debt

I have two US Bank Credit Cards (one used to be Union Bank before the Merger). US Bank has an extended pay program which allows purchases to be paid for in twelve equal monthly payments with little or no fees involved

[b]$5,637.66 - US Bank Cash Plus Signature Card - Limit $15,000.00
$6,609.77 - US Bank Platinum Visa Card - Limit $11,300.00

$12,247.43 Subtotal for US Bank Extended Pay Program[/b]

$63,299.44 Total Outstanding Credit Card Debt - $268,500 limit on all credit cards including monthly spenders

My only other debt is the 60 month loan on my 2017 RAV 4 Platinum. The debt was originally $25,000 with a 3.99% interest rate but I have paying $457.82 monthly with a current remaining balance of $6,262.02 and expect the load to be paid in full by February 2026 if I do not prepay or refinance the loan.

I learned the hard way last year that the traditional App-o-rama no longer works as it once did as I had applications rejected within an hour of the first one as the companies I was applying to were alerted to the hard inquiries much sooner than I expected.

With three hard inquiries on my current credit report my goal is to apply for 2-4 carefully targeted credit cards with 0% offers on both balance transfers and purchases (or at least one of those) .

Ideally these credit cards will be with companies that will allow me to transfer the credit limit on an existing card to the new card. I will be applying for one credit card each from Bank of America and Chase but do not know who else might let me do this.

As the estimated value of my car is in excess of $20,000 I may also want to refinance it but may not want to use one of my hard inquiries to do so.

Other existing credit cards / spenders

$50,000.00 - BOA Visa Signature
$33,700.00 - PENFED Platinum
$25,000.00 - AMEX Every Day
$19,000.00 - Wells Fargo Reflect Visa Platinum
$16,400.00 - Chase Freedom Unlimited
$13,500.00 - Citizens - They have sent 0% (through 2/12/2026) balance transfer checks (5% BT fee) that can be used through 1/31/2025
$12,500.00 - Capital One BJ's One+ Mastercard
$9,300.00 - Citi Double Cash
$6,000.00 - Discover IT Card

$25,000.00 Limit - Edward Jones Business Plus Mastercard - Does not show up on Credit Karma

================================

A total of $16,500.16 will be needed to pay off both the NFCU and AMEX cards in full.

Of the $46,799.28 i am carrying on the other five credit cards a portion will need to be paid off now to reduce the utilization rates on these individual cards so I can get approvals (most importantly from BOA and Chase) when I apply for the new cards at the end of January.

Since I did a 60 day loan from my ROTH IRA last year I can not take the money out from it (to pay off or down credit cards) until 12/29/2024.

Any funds taken from the ROTH IRA much be repaid within 60 days. As such I plan to use 0% balance transfer debt to accomplish this. You may think this is difficult or unwise but I know how to do this and am not concerned about any consequences. The immediate goals warrant any risk.

As I took a lot of money out of the Inherited IRA already in 2024 I would like to avoid taking any money out until 1/1/2025 at the earliest.

Please keep in mind that all of the credit card balances I have are either from balance transfers or extended pay programs and that paying the credit card down does not give me the opportunity to make zero percent purchases in the future.

As such I have the following questions:

1. With three hard inquiries and the possibility that each application will include a hard inquiry for the previous application how many cards should I apply for before I risk hard inquiries with nothing to show for it?

2. What is the best Bank of America credit card to apply for if I already have a BOA Signature Card?

3. What is the best Chase credit card to apply for if I already have a Chase Freedom Card?

4. What other credit cards should I apply for?

5. Are there any rewards credit cards I should consider applying for?

6. If I want to be approved by both BOA and Chase what is the highest amount of credit card utilization I should keep on any of my existing credit cards?

7. Once I have paid down the credit cards, how many days do I need to wait to apply for the new cards?

You guys were a big help when I did this last year and really appreciate any help you can provide this time.

Re: Rolling Over Credit Card Debt - Strategy and ?s regarding 0% Credit Cards in Post App-orama Worl

ElvisCaprice — Fri, 20 Dec 2024 16:28:51 GMT

Sounds like a circus act looking for a high wire fall. More power to you if you can keep pulling it off. I wouldn't recommend anyone else attempt this. Safe CC habits, with good Fico score building would be to never carry a balance.

That said, interested in feedback to keeping this circus act going.

Re: Rolling Over Credit Card Debt - Strategy and ?s regarding 0% Credit Cards in Post App-orama Worl

drchaos — Fri, 20 Dec 2024 16:49:52 GMT

Thanks for your prompt reply to my inquiry.

I would not recommend doing this unless you really know what you are doing and know how to handle risk and budget very well.

I have researched all of my numbers very carefully to even think about attemting this.

Do you have any feedback regarding the questions I have such as which cards to apply for?

As always I am happy to share any results in this thead.

Re: Rolling Over Credit Card Debt - Strategy and ?s regarding 0% Credit Cards in Post App-orama Worl

JoeRockhead — Fri, 20 Dec 2024 17:13:16 GMT

This seems an awful lot like the proverbial kicking the can down the road. Each time you kick it further down the road, the more narrow the road becomes, and the more difficult it becomes to recover from.

Obviously you not only have to acquire an adequate number of approvals, but also useful limits. People with thick, mature files are able to still acquire good approvals with lol/24 inquiries, but they generally have very low utilization... Just as in your thread from earlier this year, to have any kind of shot at all your first concern is going to have to be to reduce the high utilization you have going on before attempting this plan.

Re: Rolling Over Credit Card Debt - Strategy and ?s regarding 0% Credit Cards in Post App-orama Worl

drchaos — Fri, 20 Dec 2024 17:37:37 GMT

Thanks for your prompt reply.

As I stated in the OP the plan is to pay off the two cards that are due first (NFCU ad AMEX) and pay down the rest to a lower utilization rate.

To get approvals from companies such as BOA, Chase, Wells Fargo, or AMEX how much do I need to pay the cards down?

With some cards not due until Summer or even December I do not want to pay them down to zero just yet.

With all of the credit avialable my overall utilization rate will not be a problem.

Should I target 25, 20, 15, or 10 percent utilization if I want to get approvals without paying the cards down too much and losing valuable cash now?

Thanks again.

Re: Rolling Over Credit Card Debt - Strategy and ?s regarding 0% Credit Cards in Post App-orama Worl

ElvisCaprice — Fri, 20 Dec 2024 18:37:54 GMT

60 days is not enough time to repay the loan and make this work, IF you can even get it to work. And if you plan on borrowing from those new CC"s with 0% APR intro offers, you'll then need to take a cash advance? Since you would need to pay down/off those existing CC's to get your utilizition rate in order. I don't see how it will work.

8% max utilization, total and individual, lower better.

Re: Rolling Over Credit Card Debt - Strategy and ?s regarding 0% Credit Cards in Post App-orama Worl

drchaos — Fri, 20 Dec 2024 18:35:04 GMT

I have a preliminary list of the credit cards (and terms) that I am considering:

1. Bank of America Limited Rewards

0% on Purchases for 15 Months

0% on Balance Transders for 15 Months (3% BT Fee)

No Annual Fee

$200 Cash Rewards if Spending Target Reached

1.5% Cash Back

2. Chase Freedom Flex

0% on Purchases for 15 Months

0% on Balance Transders for 15 Months (3% BT Fee)

No Annual Fee

$200 Cash Rewards if Spending Target Reached

5% Cash back on Quarterly Category up to $1,500

3. Wells Fargo Active Cash

0% on Purchases for 12 Months

0% on Balance Transders for 12 Months (3% BT Fee)

No Annual Fee

2% Cash Back

4. Amex Blue Everyday

0% on Purchases for 15 Months

0% on Balance Transders for 15 Months (3% BT Fee)

No Annual Fee

$250 Cash Rewards if Spending Target Reached

3% Cash back on three categories, 1% Otherwise

5. TD Bank Double Up Card

0% on Balance Transders for 15 Months (3% BT Fee)

No Annual Fee

2% Cash Back

6. Edward Jones World Mastercard

1. Bank of America Limited Rewards

0% on Purchases for 15 Months

0% on Balance Transders for 15 Months (3% BT Fee)

No Annual Fee

$200 Cash Rewards if Spending Target Reached

1.5% Cash Back

2. Chase Freedom Flex

0% on Purchases for 15 Months

0% on Balance Transders for 15 Months (3% BT Fee)

No Annual Fee

$200 Cash Rewards if Spending Target Reached

5% Cash back on Quarterly Category up to $1,500

3. Wells Fargo Active Cash

0% on Purchases for 12 Months

0% on Balance Transders for 12 Months (3% BT Fee)

No Annual Fee

2% Cash Back

4. Amex Blue Everyday

0% on Purchases for 15 Months

0% on Balance Transders for 15 Months (3% BT Fee)

No Annual Fee

$250 Cash Rewards if Spending Target Reached

3% Cash back on three categories, 1% Otherwise

5. TD Bank Double Up Card

0% on Balance Transders for 15 Months (3% BT)

No Annual Fee

$150 Bonus if spending target reached

2% Cash Back

6. Edward Jones World Mastercard

0% on Balance Transders for 12 Months (0% BT Fee in first 60 days)

No Annual Fee

Loyalty Points

I learned from a past mistake that Chase would automatically decline another application for a Chase Freedom Unlimited Card if I already have one. I think they might approve an application for a Chase Freedom Flex Card but if anyone knows otherwise it would be a big help to find out now.

I currently have three hard inquiries that will all expire in January of 2026 so rolling over the cards in 15 months would happen after these inquiries have expired.

With that said I am not sure that I would get all six cards or would be comfortable going from 3 to 9 hard inquiries.

The priorirty here is to get either approvals with high limits or to get approvals and move the credit limit from an existing card to pump up the limit on the new card before making purchases or balance transfers.

Ranking these cards or taking recommendations for other cards would be appreciated but I purposely left Citi, Discover, and Capital One cards out as I have gotten low limits from them in the past and do not trust them enough to use up one of my hard inquiries.

Thanks in advance.

Re: Rolling Over Credit Card Debt - Strategy and ?s regarding 0% Credit Cards in Post App-orama Worl

drchaos — Fri, 20 Dec 2024 18:40:47 GMT

Thanks for your response.

The plan is simple.

1. Take the money from the ROTH IRA.

2. Pay off / down the cards the following day when the funds are avialable in my checking account.

3. Wait until the payments show up on the credit report (30 days?)

4. Apply for the cards

5. 30 days or so should be enough time to initiate balance transfers from one or more cards to create a credit balance on one or more of my spenders and to get a refund of that credit balance. An ACH refund can be obtained within a week while a check is closer to two weeks give or take, The window is tight and some credit card companies are much less cooperative than others but it can be done.

Once I pay down the cards is 30 days long enough to apply for the new cards or do I need to be more patient?

8% is lower than I hoped for on the utilization (and a bit more painful) but I am here to learn from you.

Re: Rolling Over Credit Card Debt - Strategy and ?s regarding 0% Credit Cards in Post App-orama Worl

ElvisCaprice — Fri, 20 Dec 2024 18:54:23 GMT

I'm going to bow out. I don't know how to make this work or even pretend to. Your going to need advice from someone who has done something similiar to what you want to attempt. Good Luck!! Try search.

Re: Rolling Over Credit Card Debt - Strategy and ?s regarding 0% Credit Cards in Post App-orama Worl

GZG — Fri, 20 Dec 2024 19:06:23 GMT

when you pay off the NFCU card, you can apply for a NFCU platinum card and then move limit over from the current card for the purpose of a balance transfer, as long as you're approved so it doesn't matter if you only get $500

it being a cash rewards plus complicates that a bit because of the $5k minimum, you may need to product change it first if you wanted to take all of the limit from that card for the new platinum

just a thought

Re: Rolling Over Credit Card Debt - Strategy and ?s regarding 0% Credit Cards in Post App-orama Worl

drchaos — Fri, 20 Dec 2024 19:21:45 GMT

Thanks for the input.

Meant to look up cards from NFCU and Alliant but I think the other cards I listed will potentially get me more than the $9k or $10k I might get from them (assuming $500 plus current limit).

Still not sure the right number of cards to apply for here but I am thinking at least 3 or 4.

Any help is appreciated.

Re: Rolling Over Credit Card Debt - Strategy and ?s regarding 0% Credit Cards in Post App-orama Worl

Patient957 — Fri, 20 Dec 2024 19:54:18 GMT

@drchaos wrote:
Once I pay down the cards is 30 days long enough to apply for the new cards or do I need to be more patient?

This whole thing is way above my pay grade, but my 2 cents on this particular point is that you may be able to reduce/optimize this with a little planning and good timing.

If you time your IRA loan to happen just before the statement cuts on the cards you're going to pay, you could potentially reduce the 30 days by a lot. This would require all or most of the cards to have similar statement cut dates, which would be a matter of just getting lucky and/or trying to get some to adjust their statement cut dates. I know some issuers will allow changing due dates, but I'm not sure if that also changes the statement cut dates.

If you could line up all the statement cut dates to within, say, a week of each other, then you could time your IRA loan just ahead of those dates.

That's all I got. Good luck!

Re: Rolling Over Credit Card Debt - Strategy and ?s regarding 0% Credit Cards in Post App-orama Worl

drchaos — Fri, 20 Dec 2024 20:12:06 GMT

That makes a lot of sense about the statement closing dates.

If I can start paying everything before the January 4th (Saturday) Citi statement, the last of the statements will be Navy Federal Credit Union which would produce a statement with a zero balance on January 26th (Sunday).

Given these data points would Tuesday, January 28th be the best time to apply for the cards or does it take longer for the reporting agencies to get on the same page?

Thanks again.

Re: Rolling Over Credit Card Debt - Strategy and ?s regarding 0% Credit Cards in Post App-orama Worl

FicoMike0 — Fri, 20 Dec 2024 20:47:33 GMT

First of all we are all pulling for you. It looks complicated, but not impossible. Please keep us posted on how it goes.

I think @Patient957 is into something with changing due/statement dates to line up.

I see you have some cl with anex, they've always gone high for me and don't do a hp if you're already a member.

Best of luck!

Re: Rolling Over Credit Card Debt - Strategy and ?s regarding 0% Credit Cards in Post App-orama Worl

Patient957 — Fri, 20 Dec 2024 21:04:27 GMT

@drchaos wrote:
That makes a lot of sense about the statement closing dates.

If I can start paying everything before the January 4th (Saturday) Citi statement, the last of the statements will be Navy Federal Credit Union which would produce a statement with a zero balance on January 26th (Sunday).

Given these data points would Tuesday, January 28th be the best time to apply for the cards or does it take longer for the reporting agencies to get on the same page?

Thanks again.

Both Navy and Citi allow you to change your due date. What I don't know is whether this will also change your statement cut dates proportionally. You would have to call and ask.

Ideally, if Navy adjusts its cut date forward by 2 weeks to the 14th and Citi adjusts its cut date back by 10 days to the 14th, then you get statement cuts on the same day. Then you pay them off on, say, the 9th to be safe. Your reports should update within maybe a week of statement cut on the 14th, or by the 21st. That's 12 days between payment and updated reports, much better than 30.

Of course this all hinges on whether changing the due date also changes statement cut date, which I don't know. You'd have to ask.

Re: Rolling Over Credit Card Debt - Strategy and ?s regarding 0% Credit Cards in Post App-orama Worl

NoMoreE46 — Sat, 21 Dec 2024 04:05:09 GMT

Looking at your thread from last year, it looks like your CC debt was around $118,000. Getting down to $64000 now is a great accomplishment. Hopefully your tactics will pan out again.

The best BofA card for your situation is the BankAmericard - 18 months at 0% for BTs.

The Reflect from WF is another long term 0% BT card - 21 months.

CU are also a great option to get you more time to pay down that debt.

This BT shuffle will become more difficult to gamble upon involving more players and the longer it spins.

Re: Rolling Over Credit Card Debt - Strategy and ?s regarding 0% Credit Cards in Post App-orama Worl

youngandcreditwrthy — Wed, 25 Dec 2024 19:05:15 GMT

@drchaos I would first check for offers witht the cards you have.

Discover you need a CLI, but they used to always offer me 0% 12 months no fees

same with Citi. They'd hound me with those .99% checks with no fee 12 months. or 1.99 for 14 mos no fees.

but you obviously will need a backdoor number and a convincing story "Id rather pay these off than file BK"

Bank of America once approved me for 5k on one of their old cards from 2015, I called got them to match my highest personal which was amex around 30k at the time, they did so, and that kept my house of cards going.

the problem here is that the ish will eventually hit the fan and it's possible youll end up like I was back in 2016. 150k in debt, 20/30% utilization... 800 FICO score, in between jobs, three apartments under my name (living in three places.. between three places) and my lifestyle expenses way out of hand.

Don't end up 200k in debt with no way to pay. STOP THIS, TURN IT AROUND. I had to stop using cards for 7 years to get all that debt paid off and wound up with my credit score being LOWER while I was OUT OF DEBT for a few years completely. Don't let the system game you, you game the sys.

Rates are higher, if you have to swallow a 5% BT FEE, DO IT. Bank of America is good if you can get the right underwriter or unless I missed some reason why BOA won't work with you. Remember you can Product Change, lower lines to increase others (ie move an old account line to combine with a new account with a 0%)

my friend with a 750 FICO and about 200k income recently got approved for 11k Citi simplicity 21 months no interest and her util is at 25%.

YOU NEED TO NIP THIS IN THE BUD. the ZERO percent revolving door of debt hell WILL CATCH UP WITH YOU.
I know you can do it. :-)

I just couldn't believe that when I paid off all that debt in full and on time, my creditors still closed accounts, left me with little credit and a sub prime score. I just started rebuilding last year after all that and am finally back up around 700 and getting good approvals.

EDIT @NoMoreE46 I can see that you have paid your debt down substantially. Fantastic work. Just continue to keep it up. We know it can flip on a dime esp with consumerism branded into our brains (pun intended). I found myself test driving a brand new Benz CLE 450 the other day, and I just bought a new card last year! and the dealer I went to is telling me their rates are higher now.. makes no sense.

Either way, Nomoree46 is smart and trustworthy. Take his advice. just dont let the creditors close the cards on you. But boy am I glad to have personally paid nearly 200k in cc debt that had been accumulated over my college career - 5 years or so. The BT offers and blank checks will dry up. I'd work on getting a new BOA card and moving over that 50k limit or at least half of it. BOA always let me move around limits. Like I said... in another post I gave up a HP for a 25k CLI on a boa better bal rewards card (old card from 2015 but had a 0% and 15 months 3% fee).

We aren't out of the woods on inflation or interest rates yet. Get the best you can get NOW.

Re: Rolling Over Credit Card Debt - Strategy and ?s regarding 0% Credit Cards in Post App-orama Worl

NoMoreE46 — Thu, 26 Dec 2024 02:03:34 GMT

For clarity, I was referring to the OP getting the debt down.

@youngandcreditwrthy wrote:

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Appreciate this @youngandcreditwrthy. Zelleing you the agreed upon amount.

Re: Rolling Over Credit Card Debt - Strategy and ?s regarding 0% Credit Cards in Post App-orama Worl

Realist — Fri, 27 Dec 2024 17:03:44 GMT

First off, I'm going to say you have a cluster of many things going on here, where you are trying to balance too much. If, and I say if I understand your scenario correctly, you are trying to pay off 50k-60k in debt, or at least transfer it over among 3-4 credit cards you hope to acquire? I ask, why work so hard? You are gambling in this situation.

First and foremost, I always say that you should look for the silver lining in all situations, find something you couldn't do while times were great. Observe the macro picture. Unless I read this wrong, you have a Roth IRA that you can withdraw contributions from to pay much or almost all of this debt in total? I wouldn't suggest taking the 60 day loan. Use the balance available to pay down either the most pressing interest rate, or the combination of multiple accounts that free up "X" amount of dollars per month.

With an IRA of any kind, you likely know there are limitations of how much you can contribute each year, less than 10k per year. If you track the stock market in any way, you would also know that 20-40% annual returns are not normal. In time, things are going to break, significantly. However, what you can control, are the certainty in the numbers that you crunch. By paying off all these totals, how much does it free up a month? Can that freed up value, be placed into a guaranteed products with lower rates instead? Sometimes a guaranteed rate is better than a parabolic risk - such as the stock market these days. Additionally, you are guaranteeing that your debt is eliminated.

When the debts are wiped away, then go apply for the 3-4 credit cards you want. Your hard inquiries will only matter after you hit the six mark.

As for any CC bank transfers, you are going to accrue a 3%-5% transfer rate for each transaction. Strategically, this can make sense on an individual basis for a particular need, but not likely for a host of accounts. It just magnifies the debt.

Get out of your debt by all relatistic means possible. Then you can save and invest in a ways you never could before. Everything is just numbers on a ledger. I'd recommend finding a way of pushing the numbers around, that offer significant savings early, and in a way that removes the uncertainty.

Re: Rolling Over Credit Card Debt - Strategy and ?s regarding 0% Credit Cards in Post App-orama Worl

youngandcreditwrthy — Sun, 29 Dec 2024 18:01:47 GMT

I wouldn't do any type of retirement account withdrawal with this level of debt.

your retirement accounts are protected from unsecured debt if you have to file BK, and the average american has about 15k in cc debt not 60k.

Sometimes, you also have to pay interest (which goes toy ourself) to your retirement account when you take a loan against it or youre faced with an immediate 20% tax penalty if not paid back within 60 days. dont do it, retirement accounts are completely protected assets from almost everything. You have enough credit esp with BOA where you should be able to call them up and ask for an offer or open a new card and move over the limit for a 0% card. which with 50k current CL, you could knock out most of that debt.

also if you own a home, DO NOT take out equity or a second mortgage or any loan against your home for unsecured debt ( credit card debt) you could end up homeless.

its never a good idea to leverage secured protected assets to pay off unsecured debt that would eventually go away if you just stopped paying on it today.. although dependending on your jurisdiction, that could open you to lawsuits and judgements as well as garnishments.

Texas is a state for example where a credit card co cant garnish wages.