topic Re: Finding myself in a quandrum..... in Relationships and Money

Finding myself in a quandrum.....

madmann26 — Wed, 24 Apr 2013 12:36:10 GMT

So,

Long story short, I suck at money management. This has been the cause of most of the tension in my marriage. I see the money as "my money, since I earned it" not as "our money", which again, has caused some strain. I have always taken care of my family and this is not the issue.

I'm not sure how to get passed this. I have a lot of issues that have haunted me since childhood and am seeking professional help with that. Over the course of our marriage, I have done some really stupid (#it and I have always found a way to rationalize it. Example below:

This year I received a 22% bonus, which after taxes, came out to around $13k. I didn't blow the money, I was semi-responsible and paid off all our outstanding bills, including CA's and the rest of it was just sitting in a bank account. I did spend some of it but the majority of it is there.

My wife finds out about it and armageddon breaks lose, not to be surprising though.

I guess I am putting all this out there to ask how to couples here, deal with money/finances/etc.

Thanks in advance.

Re: Finding myself in a quandrum.....

llecs — Wed, 24 Apr 2013 13:20:21 GMT

Once you're married, everything becomes both of yours, as opposed to "mine". All the debt is shared with the couple. The income is shared. Assets are shared, burdens are shared, and so on. If you hide money you are essentially saying, "I don't trust you" to your spouse. Even if you don't intend or mean that, she will think that. Trust is a foundation for marriage and if you chip away at that then you chip away at the marriage.

If I were in your shoes, I would sit down with the spouse and mention exactly how much you received as a bonus. Say that you felt there were obligations you had to pay and take care of out of that bonus and that you went ahead and paid them. Tell her exactly how much is left over after paying the bills and mention that you have some ideas as to what to do with the money. But before telling her what you would like to do with it, ask her what she thinks we should do with it and sit and listen. Don't discount any idea. Truly listen and take notes if needed. Once she is done and rattles off an idea that is your idea, tell her "great idea, I think we should do as you say" or something like that. Let the idea come from her. Maybe it's to save it, or fund a kid's account, or fulfill a household need, or whatever. But let her come up with the idea and any mistrust issue by not saying anything will go away.

Re: Finding myself in a quandrum.....

Anonymous — Wed, 24 Apr 2013 16:26:10 GMT

Well you got yourself into a bit of a pickle BUT you can get out of it. Simply give your wife 5.000.00. Also let her know you werent hiding the money but you knew if you came home with that kind of money and she knew she'd find something to do with it. Let her know you paid down some bills and were holding onto the money to do something special , you just didnt know what. You dont need counseling to know how to share. Save yourself the heartache and let me tell you what the counselor will tell you anyway. You have every right to say it's your money you earned right , just like it's your wife's right to tell you to clean up after yourself and do your own dishes and i'm not in the mood deal with it. Little bit on unselfishness on your part would go a long way. Also , go buy her some diamond rings if 5k too much to part with. Women love jewelry.

Re: Finding myself in a quandrum.....

dodfire — Wed, 24 Apr 2013 16:34:37 GMT

@llecs wrote:
Once you're married, everything becomes both of yours, as opposed to "mine". All the debt is shared with the couple. The income is shared. Assets are shared, burdens are shared, and so on. If you hide money you are essentially saying, "I don't trust you" to your spouse. Even if you don't intend or mean that, she will think that. Trust is a foundation for marriage and if you chip away at that then you chip away at the marriage.

If I were in your shoes, I would sit down with the spouse and mention exactly how much you received as a bonus. Say that you felt there were obligations you had to pay and take care of out of that bonus and that you went ahead and paid them. Tell her exactly how much is left over after paying the bills and mention that you have some ideas as to what to do with the money. But before telling her what you would like to do with it, ask her what she thinks we should do with it and sit and listen. Don't discount any idea. Truly listen and take notes if needed. Once she is done and rattles off an idea that is your idea, tell her "great idea, I think we should do as you say" or something like that. Let the idea come from her. Maybe it's to save it, or fund a kid's account, or fulfill a household need, or whatever. But let her come up with the idea and any mistrust issue by not saying anything will go away.

Great advice!!!

When you marry someone....2 become 1

There can be no secrets!

You said you were not great with money.....well maybe she is? Maybe the two of you working "together" would be a great team?

In all of the choices you make in marriage, pause for a second and ask yourself. How would I feel if my spouse did this?

Re: Finding myself in a quandrum.....

Anonymous — Thu, 25 Apr 2013 00:28:12 GMT

You paid off all the outstanding bills and put most of what was left in savings? That's actually great money managementl.

I would have handled things differently but really can't criticize the decision. Your trust issue may have just been common sense.

Sure people are going to go all marriage-stuff on you but in the end.. All trust issues aside; did you honestly think DW would have agreed with paying off all the outstanding bills and saving money? I know people love the your money is our money thing but couples don't always agree on spending, especially when it comes to a windfall.

Someone has to play Devils advocate.

Re: Finding myself in a quandrum.....

InvincibleSummer3 — Thu, 25 Apr 2013 02:28:09 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
You paid off all the outstanding bills and put most of what was left in savings? That's actually great money managementl.

I would have handled things differently but really can't criticize the decision. Your trust issue may have just been common sense.

Sure people are going to go all marriage-stuff on you but in the end.. All trust issues aside; did you honestly think DW would have agreed with paying off all the outstanding bills and saving money? I know people love the your money is our money thing but couples don't always agree on spending, especially when it comes to a windfall.

Someone has to play Devils advocate.

I actually agree; this isn't necessarily as bad as it could be. But the quote " I see the money as "my money, since I earned it" not as "our money", could indicate a bigger issue. I was a stay at home parent for a time, and if I felt like I didn't have a say in where the money was going just because I happened to be the one not working? Ouch. That would have been pretty painful.

Madmann, I think you're on the right track seeking some help, but I have to say the easiest way to break up a relationship is to not agree on financial goals. I divorced in 2011 largely because my ex and I could not get on the same page about where we wanted to be financially. He just wasn't good with long-term goals, and I felt like we were jeopardizing our ability to take care of our kids. He is a lovely person, really, but when he got depressed the bank account would just go sideways with the spending.

I ask this as gently as possible: when you say "semi-responsible", what does that mean? I noticed you didn't just say "responsible", which makes me wonder why you needed the qualifier? Some went to bills, and that's good. Just for the record, "just sitting in a bank account" maybe isn't a bad thing either. So what was she objecting to?

Re: Finding myself in a quandrum.....

Anonymous — Thu, 25 Apr 2013 21:05:11 GMT

@ IS,

Tons of couples keep separate finances with no ill-effects. Combined finances are the norm (here) but the demographic isn't typical on boards that deal with personal finances.

I would have discussed things with DGF and gotten her advice. That has nothing to do with me being a nice person or henpecked, it simply comes down to us being on the same page financially and I value her opinion. In OP's case (considering the money went to pay bills and she's still twisted) they probably aren't on the same page. It's easier for a man to blame himself than deal with an angry wife. Even in a case like this..... No matter how mad she is, the bills are already paid. At this point it's really just a matter of how much money it's gonna cost him for silence.

Re: Finding myself in a quandrum.....

Anonymous — Thu, 25 Apr 2013 21:10:23 GMT

@ madman26,

What's she upset about?

Here's how you address the issue. Simply ask: "What would you have done differently with the money?"

Re: Finding myself in a quandrum.....

IOBA — Mon, 29 Apr 2013 17:06:31 GMT

The way we deal with finances...

* All of the money goes into a joint account.

* I am the Money Honey Queen by agreement - both my husband and I agreed to it.

* We have a budget that gets weekly massages because life happens.

* I discuss the plan for the paycheck. DH says he's not concerned about it and doesn't need to know.

* I ask, before starting a budget massage session, the family if they can think of anything happening in the next two weeks that we need money for. It's great - family members stop, think, respond, and take part in the money conversation! (They don't care when it's a budget topic, but this one - it works.) They often come up with things for the next month and for the next six months (so I can save for it).

* On payday, I pay bills, and give a quick verbal update that sounds like this "It's done. All bills are paid. We have xxx left over. What do you want to do with it?" I get responses to this too...usually a "we can go out to eat" or "put it on a CD" or "can you buy a new CD with that?" "have we paid the full amount into our IRA for this year?" or "let's save for xxx"

I do post in view of everyone (even house visitors) what the goals are and our CD bingo charts. When we were paying down debt, I had a debt chart posted right on the fridge. (My personal income is not posted. It's what we keep, not what we make, that is important.)

Re: Finding myself in a quandrum.....

Anonymous — Mon, 29 Apr 2013 21:53:25 GMT

@ IOBA,

I'd be 100% okay with DGF handling all finances.

Re: Finding myself in a quandrum.....

madmann26 — Tue, 30 Apr 2013 17:34:45 GMT

Thanks for the feedback everyone,

Part of the problem is the way I view her now vs back when she was working. When we moved, we put our daughter (only one child at the time) in daycare. Well, due to the cost of daycare, we were actually having to cough money out of my pay plus all of the money she made to pay for daycare.

So we talked and the decision was made that she would stay home.

I think this is where my views changed. Not that I did it directly or conciously but more of a by-product of how the roles changed.

I know, it sucks either way and it's my own fault for this. I'm just trying to fix it.

Re: Finding myself in a quandrum.....

InvincibleSummer3 — Tue, 30 Apr 2013 19:25:43 GMT

@IOBA wrote:
The way we deal with finances...

* All of the money goes into a joint account.
* I am the Money Honey Queen by agreement - both my husband and I agreed to it.
* We have a budget that gets weekly massages because life happens.
* I discuss the plan for the paycheck. DH says he's not concerned about it and doesn't need to know.
* I ask, before starting a budget massage session, the family if they can think of anything happening in the next two weeks that we need money for. It's great - family members stop, think, respond, and take part in the money conversation! (They don't care when it's a budget topic, but this one - it works.) They often come up with things for the next month and for the next six months (so I can save for it).
* On payday, I pay bills, and give a quick verbal update that sounds like this "It's done. All bills are paid. We have xxx left over. What do you want to do with it?" I get responses to this too...usually a "we can go out to eat" or "put it on a CD" or "can you buy a new CD with that?" "have we paid the full amount into our IRA for this year?" or "let's save for xxx"

I do post in view of everyone (even house visitors) what the goals are and our CD bingo charts. When we were paying down debt, I had a debt chart posted right on the fridge. (My personal income is not posted. It's what we keep, not what we make, that is important.)

IOBA, I thought about this post all night last night. The thing that I love most here is that it sounds like your entire family is involved and on board. That's the piece that I think is sometimes missing. (Madmann, I'm not pointing fingers at you at all - just speaking from my own experience....) If the communication is good, and there's enough transparency that everyone is clear on the goals and the method of getting there, that's a slam dunk. As you know, since you just hit a big milestone.

I'm no longer married. But, I am working toward being in great financial shape so that I can look at a home purchase sometime in 2015. I've tried to involve the kids as much as possible, because when I was growing up my folks never ever talked about money or taught us how to budget or anything. I want my kids to have some kind of exposure to that when they're young, so that they don't screw up the way I did out of sheer ignorance. It's smart to learn how to live within your means, and to have the skills to plan ahead, and to be able to talk to your family about finances. They should be able to see the reason why the lights should get turned off when we leave the house, or what happens if the air conditioner is cranked up for days on end. Hats off to you, IOBA. I admire your abiity to be open with the family.

Re: Finding myself in a quandrum.....

madmann26 — Thu, 02 May 2013 11:19:00 GMT

Thanks for the thoughts,

We're working through it. I did a budget and presented it to her and she just kinda scoffed at it.

I see both sides of the fence and I am trying to include her more on the finance stuff to ensure that she feels that she has a say so in matters.

I don't know what the future holds for us right now.

Re: Finding myself in a quandrum.....

Anonymous — Thu, 02 May 2013 11:58:24 GMT

@madmann26 wrote:
Thanks for the thoughts,

We're working through it. I did a budget and presented it to her and she just kinda scoffed at it.

I see both sides of the fence and I am trying to include her more on the finance stuff to ensure that she feels that she has a say so in matters.

I don't know what the future holds for us right now.

I see your point but honestly think you're reacting more out of guilt than actually being/feeling wrong.

This is a contrary opinion but; Going from two incomes to one is a huge adjustment and it's entirely possible she felt more fulfilled with the working/daycare situation, despite losing money. Maybe she should find a job where the numbers make sense. Everyone's not cut out to stay home and you're probably more of a problem-solver type than cheerleader.

I read this thread to DGF (when it started) and she still can't figure out what your DW is upset about. She said paying the bills was sharing the money and made your lives easier. IIRC, she called paying the CA's a gift.

Take this with a grain of salt, from a divorced guy: Someone complaining all the time is unhappy. With ExDW, it was always something. Now that I'm not there to hear a constant barrage of complaints the children have to endure it.

Re: Finding myself in a quandrum.....

madmann26 — Thu, 02 May 2013 12:42:22 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@madmann26 wrote:
Thanks for the thoughts,

We're working through it. I did a budget and presented it to her and she just kinda scoffed at it.

I see both sides of the fence and I am trying to include her more on the finance stuff to ensure that she feels that she has a say so in matters.

I don't know what the future holds for us right now.

I see your point but honestly think you're reacting more out of guilt than actually being/feeling wrong.

This is a contrary opinion but; Going from two incomes to one is a huge adjustment and it's entirely possible she felt more fulfilled with the working/daycare situation, despite losing money. Maybe she should find a job where the numbers make sense. Everyone's not cut out to stay home and you're probably more of a problem-solver type than cheerleader.

I read this thread to DGF (when it started) and she still can't figure out what your DW is upset about. She said paying the bills was sharing the money and made your lives easier. IIRC, she called paying the CA's a gift.

Take this with a grain of salt, from a divorced guy: Someone complaining all the time is unhappy. With ExDW, it was always something. Now that I'm not there to hear a constant barrage of complaints the children have to endure it.

Are you in my head or something?

She did feel more fulfilled when she was working. She had her own identity, so-to-speak.

Her problem is that I didn't tell her that I had gotten it, was hoarding the rest of it and spent a little on me.

Re: Finding myself in a quandrum.....

Anonymous — Thu, 02 May 2013 13:10:55 GMT

@madmann26 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@madmann26 wrote:
Thanks for the thoughts,

We're working through it. I did a budget and presented it to her and she just kinda scoffed at it.

I see both sides of the fence and I am trying to include her more on the finance stuff to ensure that she feels that she has a say so in matters.

I don't know what the future holds for us right now.

I see your point but honestly think you're reacting more out of guilt than actually being/feeling wrong.

This is a contrary opinion but; Going from two incomes to one is a huge adjustment and it's entirely possible she felt more fulfilled with the working/daycare situation, despite losing money. Maybe she should find a job where the numbers make sense. Everyone's not cut out to stay home and you're probably more of a problem-solver type than cheerleader.

I read this thread to DGF (when it started) and she still can't figure out what your DW is upset about. She said paying the bills was sharing the money and made your lives easier. IIRC, she called paying the CA's a gift.

Take this with a grain of salt, from a divorced guy: Someone complaining all the time is unhappy. With ExDW, it was always something. Now that I'm not there to hear a constant barrage of complaints the children have to endure it.

Are you in my head or something?

She did feel more fulfilled when she was working. She had her own identity, so-to-speak.

Her problem is that I didn't tell her that I had gotten it, was hoarding the rest of it and spent a little on me.

Is your family further ahead and in better shape financially?

Not trusting someone's financial decision making (based on previous experience) doesn't mean you don't love them. We all have areas that could be improved upon.

Re: Finding myself in a quandrum.....

InvincibleSummer3 — Thu, 02 May 2013 15:30:49 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@madmann26 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@madmann26 wrote:
Thanks for the thoughts,

We're working through it. I did a budget and presented it to her and she just kinda scoffed at it.

I see both sides of the fence and I am trying to include her more on the finance stuff to ensure that she feels that she has a say so in matters.

I don't know what the future holds for us right now.

I see your point but honestly think you're reacting more out of guilt than actually being/feeling wrong.

This is a contrary opinion but; Going from two incomes to one is a huge adjustment and it's entirely possible she felt more fulfilled with the working/daycare situation, despite losing money. Maybe she should find a job where the numbers make sense. Everyone's not cut out to stay home and you're probably more of a problem-solver type than cheerleader.

I read this thread to DGF (when it started) and she still can't figure out what your DW is upset about. She said paying the bills was sharing the money and made your lives easier. IIRC, she called paying the CA's a gift.

Take this with a grain of salt, from a divorced guy: Someone complaining all the time is unhappy. With ExDW, it was always something. Now that I'm not there to hear a constant barrage of complaints the children have to endure it.

Are you in my head or something?

She did feel more fulfilled when she was working. She had her own identity, so-to-speak.

Her problem is that I didn't tell her that I had gotten it, was hoarding the rest of it and spent a little on me.

Is your family further ahead and in better shape financially?

Not trusting someone's financial decision making (based on previous experience) doesn't mean you don't love them. We all have areas that could be improved upon.

Where are we getting the impression that Wife is the one with the money management problem? Madmann, I thought you said in your first post you were the one with the poor management history. It's awesome that things have turned around for you - that's great. It sounds like there are other issues at play here, though, that have less to do with money and perhaps more to do with differing perspectives on partnership.

I was in a similar position as your wife, so I can kind of understand where she's coming from. I don't think this is about the money. That's a difficult place to be in, I know.

I wish you luck, and I hope you find the outcome that's the best for you & your family.

Re: Finding myself in a quandrum.....

madmann26 — Thu, 02 May 2013 15:43:41 GMT

@InvincibleSummer3 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@madmann26 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@madmann26 wrote:
Thanks for the thoughts,

We're working through it. I did a budget and presented it to her and she just kinda scoffed at it.

I see both sides of the fence and I am trying to include her more on the finance stuff to ensure that she feels that she has a say so in matters.

I don't know what the future holds for us right now.

I see your point but honestly think you're reacting more out of guilt than actually being/feeling wrong.

This is a contrary opinion but; Going from two incomes to one is a huge adjustment and it's entirely possible she felt more fulfilled with the working/daycare situation, despite losing money. Maybe she should find a job where the numbers make sense. Everyone's not cut out to stay home and you're probably more of a problem-solver type than cheerleader.

I read this thread to DGF (when it started) and she still can't figure out what your DW is upset about. She said paying the bills was sharing the money and made your lives easier. IIRC, she called paying the CA's a gift.

Take this with a grain of salt, from a divorced guy: Someone complaining all the time is unhappy. With ExDW, it was always something. Now that I'm not there to hear a constant barrage of complaints the children have to endure it.

Are you in my head or something?

She did feel more fulfilled when she was working. She had her own identity, so-to-speak.

Her problem is that I didn't tell her that I had gotten it, was hoarding the rest of it and spent a little on me.

Is your family further ahead and in better shape financially?

Not trusting someone's financial decision making (based on previous experience) doesn't mean you don't love them. We all have areas that could be improved upon.

Where are we getting the impression that Wife is the one with the money management problem? Madmann, I thought you said in your first post you were the one with the poor management history. It's awesome that things have turned around for you - that's great. It sounds like there are other issues at play here, though, that have less to do with money and perhaps more to do with differing perspectives on partnership.

I was in a similar position as your wife, so I can kind of understand where she's coming from. I don't think this is about the money. That's a difficult place to be in, I know.

I wish you luck, and I hope you find the outcome that's the best for you & your family.

I am the one with the poor money management history. There are some other issues at hand but this is the big one right now.

Thanks for the input everyone, I appreciate it.

Re: Finding myself in a quandrum.....

madmann26 — Fri, 03 May 2013 12:40:20 GMT

Well it was an interesting night,

I got my new upgraded NFCU siggy card in the mail. I am very proud of this, for financial/personal reasons. My wife made the comment that I should close the account. I was like, "what"? I don't think she realizes, even though I have explained it to her quite a few times, that you really can't build up a good score without some type of revolving cards. I guess she doesn't believe me.

Her mentality is that I don't need the temptation. While this is true, I also don't carry that card, just for that reason. But does that mean I have to go and close it just because she wants me to? Hell no and I won't budge on this one. I've worked on my/our credit repair substantially since Aug 2012. Hell, she has a higher score then me right now, just because of the work I have put into it knowing that in a couple of years, we want to be in a good position to buy a house.

She might as well have said, "you can't have any credit cards, only I can have credit cards". Sure, I got frustrated by this and it showed. I walked away from the conversation just to keep from saying something stupid.

Re: Finding myself in a quandrum.....

Anonymous — Fri, 03 May 2013 13:36:11 GMT

Have to run out for an oil change and haircut but wanted to add this:

I really made a lot of financial mistakes and DGF helped set me on the right road to better financial management. But...... She's always had absolutely perfect credit and didn't understand repair one bit. When I got a card she was pretty nervous history would repeat itself, more nervous with second card, and so on. Fixing my credit took a lot of work and time, that's one of the earns I'm so militant about protecting it. I love knowing that when our income is right, there's no dance to do or scores to really worry about.

Possibly, in time she'll see things are improving but it seems like there are a lot of other issues magnifying how she perceives things being paid off. It's entirely possible she thinks the bills and CAs paid for out of the bonus should have never existed in the first place. Maybe she's ticked-off at why the money was spent, not how.