topic Re: Did myFICO ruin my relationship? in Relationships and Money

Did myFICO ruin my relationship?

Dw4250 — Sat, 22 Mar 2014 18:23:59 GMT

I'm half-joking, of course. But this site has made me not only self-aware about my credit/finances, but caused me to ask some deeper questions about my current girlfriend. So here's my story:

I’ve been dating the same girl for 2.5 years. The relationship is going great with the exception of one thing: Her credit and financial management skills are not very good. She is 31, has already one bankruptcy on her report from a few years ago, and seems to heading into dangerous waters again.

A little background…she moved in with me in Sept 2013 (I own a townhouse). At the time, we agreed that she would wait to until April 2014 to pay rent. The logic was to give her 7-8 solid months to funnel the money she had been paying toward her rent and utilities to pay off (or at least significantly paying down) her CC debt. She told me at the time she owed about 5K in CC debt, and had been paying close to $750 in rent/utilities. (7 months x $750 =$5250)

We have not spoken much about her progress, and I assumed her CC debt was being paid down per our agreement. Then a few weeks ago, I noticed she had a couple of envelopes arrived in the mail that looked like overdraft notices. I confronted her on it, and she admitted her checking account was overdrawn. I asked her where she was in her “debt reduction” program and she told me all of her CC’s were maxed out. I was floored! I don’t see any evidence of excessive spending by her (although she did take a trip to Puerto Rico with her sister in January). She then hit me with a double whammy…her CC debt is now $10K!!! (she had told me last Sept it was around 5K)

I’m really dispirited and am not sure what to do. My thoughts behind her moving in were 3-fold:

1) It would give us a chance to strengthen/deepen our relationship

2) It would end up being cheaper for both of us (share costs)

3) A break in rent/paying off her CC’s would put her on solid financial footing and we would be well positioned for if/when we wanted to get married and buy a home.

Instead, it seems the opposite has happened. MY expenses have increased (food/utility costs), and she is actually in WORSE shape financially than when she was paying rent.

Our self-imposed deadline of April is nearly here, when I assumed she’d be able to start chipping in on rent/utilities (we had agreed that she would pay $350 total including utilities). She has already told me there’s no way she can pay me rent in April. Although I am able to make my mortgage payments and other obligations comfortably, it deeply worries me that she’s not able to come up with even $350/month.

I am in a position to help her. I went to my CU the other day, and pre-qualed for a 48 mo, $8,000 personal loan at 8.9%. Monthly payments would come in right around a very comfortable $200/month (she’s paying $200/month just in interest per month on her cards) . This would instantly help her credit and in a year or so, she could refinance with the loan in her name only.

But as I walked out of the CU, it started to hit me...what if she’s as irresponsible with the loan as she is with everything else? Do I really want to be with someone who is so unserious about her finances. To be fair, I was similarly irresponsible with my finances in the past. It took me YEARS to dig myself out. So I know how hard it can be. But I now consider myself to be responsible about money/credit. Do I really want to go through another roller coaster with someone else’s debt (especially if I am unsure if she’s willing to fully committ to improving her credit and finances)?

So what do you think guys…should I help her by getting the loan or not? I am really torn, and don’t want to end the relationship. But at the same time, I feel like I’ve already tried to help her by giving her a break in rent, the past 8 months and that’s blown up in my face. I am starting to feel like an enabler for irresponsible behavior. Has anyone else on here gone through something similar? If so, what was the outcome?

My profile:

Income: 81K

Debt Obligations: Mortgage, small student loan, car loan, cards in siggy, no kids

Her Profile:

Income: $50K

Debt Obligation: $900/month student loans, $10K in credit card debt, car loan (~$250/month), no kids.

Re: Did myFICO ruin my relationship?

barbaralee — Sat, 22 Mar 2014 19:11:54 GMT

By you taking out a loan and paying her credit cards you would be putting all of HER debt into YOUR name. Why would you do that? I understand love and all.... but is this a woman you are planning on marrying and having children with? And even so... why would she be irresponsible and you reward her irresponsibility with paying her debts free and clear?

And I am sorry, but if she makes 50k a year and can't come up with a measly $350 she has very, very serious financial issues... and good lord!! $900 in student loans!! What is her student loan debt?

Re: Did myFICO ruin my relationship?

Dw4250 — Sat, 22 Mar 2014 21:17:25 GMT

@barbaralee wrote:
By you taking out a loan and paying her credit cards you would be putting all of HER debt into YOUR name. Why would you do that? I understand love and all.... but is this a woman you are planning on marrying and having children with? And even so... why would she be irresponsible and you reward her irresponsibility with paying her debts free and clear?

And I am sorry, but if she makes 50k a year and can't come up with a measly $350 she has very, very serious financial issues... and good lord!! $900 in student loans!! What is her student loan debt?

She took out nearly $150K in student loans (undergrad and master's program). To answer you question about marriage...yes I am (or was) thinking very seriously about settling down and making a life with her. But these recent revelations are giving me major pause about the future.

It's hard because she's so awesome in so many different ways. I would feel a lot better about things if I saw her taking concrete steps to fix the problem. During the same conversation, I talked with her about maybe looking for a 2nd (part time) job. This is what I did to get myself out of debt, along with cutting expenses and following a strict budget.

She said a 2nd job would stress her out too much, and we'd barely get to see each other. I told her another possibility was to start looking for a higher paying job (given her qualifications, she is grossly underpaid in her current position). She agreed, but also added “there are no jobs out there in my field”. Anyway, so far I have not seen her take any steps to find another job.

Just to clarify, the loan idea was my own. She does not know I went to my CU…but my first instinct was to try to help her. If we were to get married, her debt would become my (our) problem anyway, so I was trying to think of options to help alleviate the situation now. But as I mentioned in my first post, I wonder if this would do the opposite of help her. I wonder if it may further enable her to not take responsibility for her finances (not to mention potentially hurt my own credit which I have worked so hard to repair).

As far as the $350 in rent, that is the part what worries me the most. Where is the money going? When I asked her, she cited an increase in her student loans along with her auto loan. But these are debt she already had. And if she were to move out, there’s no way so could find anywhere for less than $350, even with a roommate (where we live, you cannot get even a studio apt for under $700/month, unless it is in a really crappy neighborhood). So I agree…$350 is a pretty modest amount for someone making $50K (and less than half of what she was paying).

Re: Did myFICO ruin my relationship?

Gunnar419 — Sat, 22 Mar 2014 21:44:48 GMT

You are clearly a good guy. You have already helped her by giving her all those months rent free -- and she threw that help back in your face.

Whether she's just incompetent at money management or using you, who can say? But you gave and she took. Now there's not a single sign that she's trying to fix her own situation. Please, for your own sake and the sake of any future between the two of you, don't give any more. Don't enable her folly. If she wants a long-term relationship with you, she'll take steps to change her ways. It's not up to you to go on accommodating her.

I'm sorry because you do sound like a good person and a good partner. But be tough here. You already know you need to. Good luck!

Re: Did myFICO ruin my relationship?

Anonymous — Sun, 23 Mar 2014 00:53:36 GMT

I'd at least clarify what "increase in student loans and car loan" is. Is she paying the extra towards these, or did the monthly payments increase (doubtful unless she is on some type of income based repayment, and double doubtful for the car)? Not only that, but say she was paying more towards these loans, extra spending is ending up on credit cards which will probably have a higher interest rate than the car and student loans unless in a 0% intro period. Doesn't make sense to defer money to a higher interest credit card.

Hopefully you will be able to at least find out if she is lying about this -- and if she is, move on and save yourself any regret and problems down the road. You have already tried to help her and now the situation seems worse off. Honestly, i think you taking out a loan will only enable this further. She has had about 6 months to save $750/month, about $4500 total. That CC debt should be just about gone.

The answer to your thread topic: myFICO did not ruin your relationship, you are just discovering an incompatability with her lackadaisical financial mentality. Trust your gut and not your heart. Sorry mate

Re: Did myFICO ruin my relationship?

barbaralee — Sun, 23 Mar 2014 03:32:55 GMT

I wouldn't want to discourage anyone from being with someone that they love, but I would pause before popping the question or (God forbid) having kids. I do agree with what someone else said that you gave her an amazing gift and she threw it to the wayside, whether on purpose or by her own financial incompetence... But driving yourself into debt will not help her in the long run; based on her track record she will find a way to do it again.

please don't start mixing finances, but I do think you can help by her disclosing EVERYTHING to you and then helping her budget to get rid of that debt.

Re: Did myFICO ruin my relationship?

Anonymous — Sun, 23 Mar 2014 10:20:00 GMT

I will tell you how me and my girl work. I have been with her for 4 years now. When she moved in with me from her moms I paid all the bills rent, utilities, cable, and she bought food. We made approx the same all and I personally don't care who pays what. My credit is coming up from mistakes of about 5 years ago. Hers has taken a hit from exhusband. We got an awesome oppurtunity to house sit for a year and save so we did. While house sitting she let me take over paying everything because she knows how anal I am about getting stuff paid on time ( I pay when stuff pops up not the due date) and I check my bank account quite frequently. At the end of house sitting we bought a house totally within our means. She is the one with good credit so the loan is in her name. I dont make as much anymore so I pay cable, trash, and my bills. We still have seperate bank accounts and it will stay that way. Other than that though I have access to everything of hers to pay all her bills and the mortgage. I guess what it comes to is trust. She could just be bad at money and should trust you to help her get it straightened out. However I will say that what I said would paid always was IE hey can I use your hd card to buy a table saw? I will have it paid by.....

Re: Did myFICO ruin my relationship?

Dw4250 — Sun, 23 Mar 2014 13:51:01 GMT

Thanks to everyone for their feedback. Well, I decided to talk with her again last night, and it turned into a pretty big argument (still getting the silent treatment this morning!). I brought up my concerns about her inability to manage her money/pay rent. She brought up the same excuses as before (her student loan payment is too high; she doesn’t want to get a PT job; there are no jobs in her field; blah, blah).

I told her since she’s already indicated she cannot pay rent in April, I would be willing to give her another couple of months without paying rent. But in that time, I need her to do at least three things:

Come up with a concrete, realistic budget that she will stick to.
Come clean about all of her debt/finances, so we are working off the same play sheet (the numbers she tells me always seem to change)
Figure out a way to either drastically reduce her spending or earn more money.

She wasn’t happy about my “ultimatum”, and kept accusing me of lecturing her. I told her I’m not trying to act like her parent. I told her over and over that I love her and will support her through these changes, but I needed to see some changes. She actually asked me if I was in financial trouble since I seemed to need the rent money so bad…lol!!!

It’s not that I need the rent money. As I wrote in my earlier post, if I saw where the money was going (i.e. paying down debt or put into a savings acct for our future), I would happily continue to allow her to live rent free as I would then know that money is being put away for our future. As I told her last night, I don’t need her to take care of me, but I do need to know she can take care of herself. To me, the rent money is now a matter of principle.

I’m not sure how this argument will shake out. If she ultimately agrees to make some changes, I will be there to support her. If she decides that I’m being an “a-hole” for even bringing this whole thing up, then I will be looking for the relationship exit ramp.

And to answer barbaralee question, no I would never mix finances until I was confident she could manage her own. She had suggested awhile back we should get a joint account to “share” expenses, but my spidey sense told me that was a bad idea. I’ve also decided 100% against taking out the loan to help her pay down her CC’s.

Thx again everyone! I will continue to update....

Re: Did myFICO ruin my relationship?

Crisis — Sun, 23 Mar 2014 15:47:53 GMT

@Dw4250 wrote:
Thanks to everyone for their feedback. Well, I decided to talk with her again last night, and it turned into a pretty big argument (still getting the silent treatment this morning!). I brought up my concerns about her inability to manage her money/pay rent. She brought up the same excuses as before (her student loan payment is too high; she doesn’t want to get a PT job; there are no jobs in her field; blah, blah).

I told her since she’s already indicated she cannot pay rent in April, I would be willing to give her another couple of months without paying rent. But in that time, I need her to do at least three things:

Come up with a concrete, realistic budget that she will stick to.
Come clean about all of her debt/finances, so we are working off the same play sheet (the numbers she tells me always seem to change)
Figure out a way to either drastically reduce her spending or earn more money.

She wasn’t happy about my “ultimatum”, and kept accusing me of lecturing her. I told her I’m not trying to act like her parent. I told her over and over that I love her and will support her through these changes, but I needed to see some changes. She actually asked me if I was in financial trouble since I seemed to need the rent money so bad…lol!!!

It’s not that I need the rent money. As I wrote in my earlier post, if I saw where the money was going (i.e. paying down debt or put into a savings acct for our future), I would happily continue to allow her to live rent free as I would then know that money is being put away for our future. As I told her last night, I don’t need her to take care of me, but I do need to know she can take care of herself. To me, the rent money is now a matter of principle.

I’m not sure how this argument will shake out. If she ultimately agrees to make some changes, I will be there to support her. If she decides that I’m being an “a-hole” for even bringing this whole thing up, then I will be looking for the relationship exit ramp.

And to answer barbaralee question, no I would never mix finances until I was confident she could manage her own. She had suggested awhile back we should get a joint account to “share” expenses, but my spidey sense told me that was a bad idea. I’ve also decided 100% against taking out the loan to help her pay down her CC’s.

Thx again everyone! I will continue to update....

I'm not trying to be judgmental, but it almost seems like she doesn't WANT to get out of debt. I really urge to use caution with regards to this woman. A good friend of mine was in a similar situation, and when it went sideways, and he said he was done, she told him she was pregnant, which turned out to be a lie... but in the time between telling him and him finding out, she actually got pregnant. It was a mess.

Please, please be careful

Re: Did myFICO ruin my relationship?

barbaralee — Sun, 23 Mar 2014 16:15:45 GMT

I think a program like You Need a Budget would be very beneficial to your girlfriend. I don't mean to sound like a commercial, but YNAB does force the user to be accountable for their spending, and it sounds like she needs to learn some accountability. None of your requests were unreasonable, so I am not sure why she is getting so defensive about it, especially since you are coming from the view of wanting to HELP her. So far she has had it good. You are letting her live rent free!! That is a sweet deal. It is quite obvious she has some sort of problem with money and I am curious where her money is going besides loans. It is disappointing that she seems to be fighting you on this.

Re: Did myFICO ruin my relationship?

IncrsCredScore — Sun, 23 Mar 2014 17:10:55 GMT

Dw4250, I am hoping that everything works out for you and your girlfriend; however, it appaers she does not have the commitment that you do. Please never open a joint account with her. I know from personal experience that this can lead to disaster. Even when married each partner in the marriage should maintain their own personal checking/banking accounts, totally separate from one another, IMO.

Re: Did myFICO ruin my relationship?

Dw4250 — Mon, 24 Mar 2014 16:54:56 GMT

@barbaralee wrote:
I think a program like You Need a Budget would be very beneficial to your girlfriend. I don't mean to sound like a commercial, but YNAB does force the user to be accountable for their spending, and it sounds like she needs to learn some accountability. None of your requests were unreasonable, so I am not sure why she is getting so defensive about it, especially since you are coming from the view of wanting to HELP her. So far she has had it good. You are letting her live rent free!! That is a sweet deal. It is quite obvious she has some sort of problem with money and I am curious where her money is going besides loans. It is disappointing that she seems to be fighting you on this.

I will definitely look into that program. Thx barbaralee!

It's always difficult to be confronted when dealing with a problem, so I have some empathy for her. But I really tried to approach it from the vantage point of a supportive BF (as opposed to lecturing her). But I also wanted to be firm and let her know this is something she needs to get a handle on now. I have gotten to know her family over the past couple of years, and they are all pretty insular people (don't like to talk about their problems). I think she inherited some of that.

The bottom line is I cannot honestly see myself marrying someone who cannot reasonably manage her own finances. Maybe 5 or 10 years ago, I would not have cared as much. But after my own financial woes (and all the hard work and sacrifice it took for me to get out of debt!), my eyes have been open to importance of good credit and responsible debt management.

It's also why it is hard for me to accept her answer of getting a 2nd PT job would "stress her out too much". I'm guessing filing bankruptcy (for the 2nd time in 6 years!) would be way more "stressful" than that. And that's my dilemma...I fear if she does not change her ways, BK is the path she is heading down. Do I want to come along for the ride? The answer is NO!

I will try to support her as much as I can, but I cannot force her to do anything...so the ball really is her court.

Re: Did myFICO ruin my relationship?

All4One — Mon, 24 Mar 2014 21:09:05 GMT

Just curious, Have you offered to help setup or even manage the budget for her? I imagine so, but it wasn't ever stated. My wife might not survive if I told her to set up the next months budget, but she does well with following what I have setup(and she agrees to) in the past.

Re: Did myFICO ruin my relationship?

IOBA — Mon, 24 Mar 2014 22:18:55 GMT

I'd have a hard time sticking with this gal with everything you have said. You can still date her but get her OUT of your house!! ASAP!!

ASAP!!!

She's had plenty of time to make an effort to pay down debt. According to her, she DOUBLED her debt while living rent (and pretty much expense) free!

Increased car payment? Only IF she was super late or she missed a car payment. That should not have happened.

And do NOT get a personal loan to pay off her debt. She needs to learn how to manager her finances. She needs to consolidate, let her go and get a personal loan herself.

Please, please get her out of your house and far, far away from your assets and valuables!

Re: Did myFICO ruin my relationship?

p- — Mon, 24 Mar 2014 23:12:50 GMT

Dw4250 wrote:...I would never mix finances until I was confident she could manage her own. She had suggested awhile back we should get a joint account to “share” expenses, but my spidey sense told me that was a bad idea. I’ve also decided 100% against taking out the loan to help her pay down her CC’s.

Good call on the spidey sense, man. There's not enough benefit in you moving her debt into your name to offset the risk.

Let's be fair for a second, though. When I first met my wife, I was close to geting my car repossesed, and my score was in the 500's. Now, I run the budget and the money in our household and have both of our scores up very high. People can learn and change, and love and relationships are bigger than money.

When wifey and I discussed how we would mix our finances, we agreed that I would do the budget and transactions, but report to her everything I did. We each have our own checking accounts that we spend from, and I transfer money each pay day to a joint account from which all bills are paid, and further transfers are made to savings. We each have a budget we stick to for joint contributions, and complete control over our individual spending. We also each have a savings account of our own seperate from the joint account.

If you can get her to sit down with you and lay it all out in the open, and come up with a reasonable budget for bills and spending, there is hope for the relationship. There really only needs to be one person managing it all anyway, for things to really work right. In other words, only one MyFican is necessary for success. Perhaps the conversation should be along the line that you are really good at this stuff, and if she lets you do it for her she won't have to worry anymore.... Set up a budget with her transferring money to a seperate account that covers all of her payments but leaves her with enough for her daily spending, gas, etc. If she'll agree to give that over to you, I am willing to bet you can manage it for her.

In reality, her contributions will likely start out going exclusively to her own debt, but once it's all under control and some things are paid off, you'll be able to divert more of it to household expenses.

That may mean another bankruptcy, once you see all of the cards... Or not. I can say that our relationship is smoother with one of us handling the details, and both of us having our own money. But make sure she has overdraft approval turned off... and cut up the credit cards.

Good luck.

Re: Did myFICO ruin my relationship?

Dw4250 — Tue, 25 Mar 2014 16:56:43 GMT

@All4One wrote:
Just curious, Have you offered to help setup or even manage the budget for her? I imagine so, but it wasn't ever stated. My wife might not survive if I told her to set up the next months budget, but she does well with following what I have setup(and she agrees to) in the past.

I actually did offer awhile back to help her set up a budget. I have a great spreadsheet on Excel that has really helped me the last couple of years, and I offered to personalize it for her.

Yesterday (per barbaralee's suggestion), I offered to help her set up any of the literally dozens of free tools/apps on her iPhone like Mint or You Need A Budget. She sort of shrugged her shoulders and said she'd look into it, so we'll see if she does it or is just putting me off.

I finally told her last night I want to table the discussion for now (we've pretty much been arguing the past few days). I told her I'm tired of fighting about this...I told her again I love her and want to help her through this. If she wants my help figuring this out, I am willing to set aside this whole coming weekend to discuss and plan. But if we do this, I told her I need her to be completely honest and put everything on the table in terms of her debt/financial obligations.

But as a friend told me yesterday, you cannot want this more than her. If she is unwilling to make these changes, I will need to reassess the whole relationship.

Re: Did myFICO ruin my relationship?

Anonymous — Tue, 25 Mar 2014 17:30:25 GMT

RUN BRO, RUN!

She's sponging off you and you're letting her. There's no reason she should have ever lived with you for free(this isn't the 1950's. Women can take care of themselves). The unfortunate truth is that if you allow it, MOST people will take advantage of your kindness. You've set up a precedent where she knows you will bail her out. At her income, she should have plenty of money to pay down debt while paying <400 rent.

She needs to pay rent or find a new place to live. She probably won't accept this change because she's used to walking all over you. She doesn't respect you, sorry to say.

Best of luck

Re: Did myFICO ruin my relationship?

mechanicaljen — Tue, 25 Mar 2014 18:26:02 GMT

It doesn't sound like she's mature enough for the relationship you two have, sorry to say.

Re: Did myFICO ruin my relationship?

p- — Tue, 25 Mar 2014 21:59:33 GMT

Dw4250 wrote: as a friend told me yesterday, you cannot want this more than her

Wise words.

Re: Did myFICO ruin my relationship?

cclee — Wed, 26 Mar 2014 03:32:35 GMT

Yikes, sounds like she's using you, which is sad since you seem so intent on helping her out. She throws a fit and you give in, gave her more time if she makes up a budget, and she may or may not look into it. It's pretty disrespectful to you, she may be awesome in some way, but this is something major that she's not awesome at and doesn't have enough respect for you and your relationship to try. She's definately hiding something, are you sure she still has a job? 350 a month for rent on 50k a year salary, should be cake, something isn't adding up (besides her debt). I'm a woman and I had 2 different relationships where the bf moved in with me, and then used me, these were serious relationships, I dumped them and married a man that respected me, my money, and our relationship (and he's pretty awesome).