topic Re: THREE failed relationships due to money... unreal. in Relationships and Money

THREE failed relationships due to money... unreal.

Anonymous — Tue, 07 Mar 2017 04:14:55 GMT

Well, my relationship of about 6 years ended recently. I started a thread a few months back asking how everyone splits up their expenses in their relationships since I was having a major issue with it in my relationship and in a nutshell nothing changed. i ended up harboring major resentment which in turn caused her to leave me I suppose. It's a crappy situation as we have a son together and are now dealing with the whole splitting up time issues, child support, etc. It's a mess.

Anyway, the reason for this post is to ask all of you what your thoughts are on relationships not working out because of money. My last 3 relationships (combined about 14 years) have all ended either directly or indirectly because of money. It drives me nuts and seriously makes me question whether or not i should ever enter into another relationship at this point. If I do, what can I do to avoid what's happened to me 3 times already? All 3 relationships ended for different monetary reasons:

#1 - Girlfriend was young, very passive and inexperienced in life. She moved out of her parents place into my place in her late teens. She never paid any of her own bills, learned the concept of money, etc. She never contributed a dime to anything when living with me because she simply hadn't learned the value of money, what it's like to live and pay bills and such and didn't see any reason to have to contribute financially. After about 5 years of this I ended up giving her the boot because she was unwilling to compromise at all. I actually think this was a good thing for her as it forced her to learn these concepts and forced her to grow as a person.

#2 - Based on my experience with #1, it was important I find someone that was a bit older, less passive and more of a worker and go-getter. When we started dating she was working multiple jobs, taking online classes, living in her own apartment paying her own bills etc. These qualities were quite different than what I had experienced for the previous 5 years and I thought that financially it could only be a better experience. I was wrong. It turned out #2 was pretty crazy; she was quite volatile, irresponsible and flat out unstable. She went through 6 jobs in about 2 years, couldn't keep a job, couldn't wake up for work, was getting traffic tickets left and right and so on. Bottom line is she would have loved to contribute financially to our relationship (and she did a few times unlike #1) but she was always broke and as a result was a financial burden. Eventually I told her that her instability was not a trait that I could see a future with and had to send her packing.

#3 - My most recent relationship that just ended. Like #2, this one was also working her tail off when i met her. She actually worked for me for a while so i knew her work ethic was extremely sound and she was highly motivated and extremely responsible and stable. She had her own place, paid her own bills, worked several jobs etc. Upon getting together, we got pregnant very quickly. After having our child, naturally she worked a lot less while I paid all of our bills and supported our family. Fast forward several years, she's again working multiple jobs with decent income yet she's still relying on me to not only pay all of our combined bills, but several of HER bills as well. I spoke to her about the financial strain it was putting on me and the subsequent resentment it caused, but it didn't change her habits. She somehow felt entitled to an easy life (financially) since she had to sacrifice herself so much in her opinion in becoming a mother, staying at home for a length of time raising our son, etc. She would buy tons of materialistic items and just splurge on herself all the time without contributing a dime to our bills. This over the years shut me down and caused me to give a lot less to her emotionally (outside of what I gave financially) so ultimately she left due to feeling the relationship was unfulfilling.

So in a one sentence recap of my last 3 relationships and why they failed because of money:

#1 didn't feel she had to pay anything since she was young and inexperienced in life.

#2 wanted to contribute and on rare occasions would, but due to being so irresponsible and unstable she couldn't ever sustain it.

#3 felt entitled to being taken care of after having our son and as a result only spent money on herself and never our bills or even all of her bills.

Fellow forum members, what am I doing wrong here? I feel like the last 15 years of my life has been quite unsuccessful and the bottom line reason always seems to come back to MONEY for me. I find this very frustrating. I get it that certain people seem to be attracted to the same type of person and that these people often make the same mistakes throughout life, but I felt like I made very conscious efforts to seek qualities in each relationship that were different than the one prior... yet all of them ultimately ended up failing for the same reasons.

Any thoughts or advice on this topic, anyone?

Re: THREE failed relationships due to money... unreal.

Anonymous — Tue, 07 Mar 2017 04:55:26 GMT

I'd first like to know how you were with these women prior to getting in a serious relationship with them. Did you wine and dine them? If so, then you set up an expectation. Stop leading with your money foot. I'm naturally giving and had a tendency to do that, but it becomes expected. Relationships are two way streets.

Although most people are hesitant, a discussion about finances is important before moving on to something more serious with a person. It's important to discus what their and your financial expectations are prior to cohabiting. Believe me, I know. I, too, have been in a relationship where I was the one carrying the financial burden. You do harbor resentment. Personally, I feel when someone truly cares for you, he/she would do anything to make your life easier. If that means paying one extra bill, so be it. Hindsight is 20/20.

My advice to you would be to have an open dialogue about finances with your future partner. Financial expecations have to be discussed. Be specific...utility bill, mortgage, etc...If she has a baby, would she expect to stay home for the first year,etc. This decreases household income and has to be discussed.

Lastly, pay attention to how people are in all areas of their lives. Usually, how they are in one area of their life is usually how they are in other areas of their lives. Hence, girlfriend #2.

Re: THREE failed relationships due to money... unreal.

tacpoly — Tue, 07 Mar 2017 06:54:43 GMT

I agree with goodcreditgirl1: you set your relationships up for failure when you don't discuss something that's very important to you before you take your relationship to the next level.

Even when you got pregnant, you should have discussed the logistics of raising a kid: who's going to be the primary caregiver, how will it affect both your finances, what are her and your expectations. Even if you and she are totally in sync, it's still good to check.

So relationship success is not just about picking the right person, but also having the right approach.

Re: THREE failed relationships due to money... unreal.

Anonymous — Tue, 07 Mar 2017 07:36:00 GMT

I may not exactly have the right to give advice on this since I'm not a relationship type of person, but I'd like to give my opinion for what's it worth maybe. Being single has provided me the leisure and convenience of not having to compromise my time to anyone. The older I get, the happier I am that I chose to remain single.

It sounds like you have been in a relationship from one after the other the last 15 yrs. Why not take a little break for yourself? Are you the type of person that feel like you have to be in a relationship all the time? If so, that's ok. There are people who has to be with somebody. If these relationships end up broken because of financial constraints, staying single should cut the bill in half right away. Once you reach that point when you feel like you are financially stable, maybe you can consider the idea getting into another relationship if you can think you can afford with you just working. I know it's not an ideal thing to do, but it seems like your past relationships are torn apart by monetary constraints. I'm not sure I'm making any real sense.

Re: THREE failed relationships due to money... unreal.

Anonymous — Tue, 07 Mar 2017 14:52:00 GMT

Thanks for the responses above from everyone.

Allow me to provide a little more information here. With relationship #1 I will say that I did not lay down any ground rules, discuss finances etc. I wrongfully assumed that once she moved in with me and that she was making a decent amount of money that naturally she'd contribute. Since she was young and hadn't yet learned about money and life really she didn't understand why she would need to contribute. She has lived with her parents bill-free for her entire life so why not do the same with me? I chalked that relationship up to us not communicating more about that from the start, which is why I made certain that for my next relationship (and one after that) I had lengthy talks about this topic before getting involved.

I did not "wine and dine" either of my next two girlfriends, #2 and #3 and had financial discussions with them when we were first dating into when our relationships really got serious. Like I said earlier, #2 wanted to contribute money, but couldn't because she never had any due to not being able to hold down a job, was constantly paying off other expenses (lots of traffic tickets, car problems, insurance lapses, etc). When we were dating she explained how she's always contributed 50/50 in relationships, pays her own bills and such. Coming from #1, I found this quality quite appealing with #2. It just so happened that once we got together she became increasingly more irresponsible and unstable and her actions followed suit. Her income was next to nothing so she couldn't help out. When she DID have money she would throw me a hundred bucks here and there. She never spent any money on herself (materialistic stuff) because she didn't have it... and when she DID have it she would pick helping me over buying stuff for herself. Ultimately it was a huge financial drain though being involved with her and one that I could tell would exist forever or as long as we were together.

Similarly when I got into my relationship with #3, I had a lengthy discussion with her about how my previous relationship failed largely in part to financial reasons. #3 thought it was ridiculous that #2 wasn't able to hold down a job and be an adult and sympathized with my ruined financial situation that came from being with #2 for years. Actually, #2 is the one that ruined my credit as we had a joint account together that she completely stopped paying on. Since she got the statements I didn't know this until the account was 120+ days past due. I ended up loaning her $6000 to pay it off, about $500-$600 of which she paid me back but that was it. #3 made it very clear to me when we were dating that she was extremely independent and would never even think of putting me in that sort of financial position. She said that we would always share expenses. Since we got pregnant very quickly, naturally this "plan" changed. We talked about it and I knew I was going to take on most if not all of our combined expenses, even a few of her expenses (car insurance, cell phone) since she would be unable to work for a while. She was out of work for only a couple of months, but upon returning to work she was forced to work less due to our schedules and lack of support system for our son. Basically neither of us could ever work at the same time as someone always had to be home with him. In time over the next year or two she was able to get a second job which she was able to bring him to (they had a day care there) so her income increased. Along with her increased income came increased spending with materialistic stuff of hers filling up the house from day to day. I resented her for this and talked to her about it. I said that I'm not only paying all of our combined bills, but am still paying several of HER bills. If she can't at least pay HER bills, she shouldn't be buying all types of fun stuff for herself. This has been a problem for about the last year and played a large role in the demise of our relationship that just recently ended.

To answer another one of the questions above, no I'm not the type of person that needs to be in a relationship. In fact, I have zero desire at this point to be in one at all. I can say now that I never want to be in another relationship, but obviously I'm speaking from negative emotions having just broken up with #3 so obviously that could change at some point. I guess I started this thread because I don't really know what I could have done differently and/or what I should do differently "next time" if there is a next time. I feel my communication was very solid with #2 and #3, not so much #1 as I hadn't yet learned about financial issues in a relationship. All of my female friends that are in relationships tell me that they contibute a lot, some even more than their boyfriends/husbands depending on their relative income levels. All of them think it's ridiculous and can't understand how my girlfriends for whatever reason have never contributed. Several of my female friends have know me for a long time and have know #1, #2 and #3 and all say how different all of them have been so it's like like I was seeking out the same (negative) quality in them whether knowingly or subconsciously.

Re: THREE failed relationships due to money... unreal.

Anonymous — Tue, 07 Mar 2017 15:08:09 GMT

BBS, I'm sorry for what you're going through right now Breakups are hard, especially when you've been together for so long. It is very good that you're reflecting and trying to determine how increase the probability of a more successful relationship in the future.

It seems to me you've made diligent effort to assess and evaluate the problems of previous relationship and took corrective actions. However, I believe the reason why you think the relationships failed (all due to money) is not completely accurate. They failed because of different value systems.

I Feel Your Pain

My marriage was the totality of all your relationships - over 15 years. Failed. My ex was a hard, diligent worker. A go-getter and smart! However, that is not what makes a person financially responsible. How they view life and how it should be lived always reflect in spending habits. I would guess there were early signs that you probably ignored or didn't put emphasis on because you focused so much on the other qualities you did appreciate.

My ex and I had many MANY discussions. Did we have discussions about money? Yep. Did we like the answers received? Yep. Did it appear that we were on the same page? Yep. Were we? NOPE! People know what to say or tend to express what they know is right - not what they actually believe and live out.I find that money only give people the freedom to be who they really are. The more money involved, the more who a person really is shines through!

I work hard. Play harder That's my philosophy in life. I spend freely, but responsibly. My ex worked hard and also played hard. Their philosopy in life. Spend freely, not necessarily responsibly. Clearly we differed,

The only way to make my ex happy was to give them free access to ALL the money (which I did), not question or have an issue with any spending (which I learned not to do), and to just keep working like a dog to ensure that money freely flowed. There was a time when my yearly bonuses were more than most people make in a year. I can't tell you where it went or what my ex spent in on. Attempts to discuss the matter resulted in guilt blaming and hurt feelings everywhere!.

I think some people have traits within themselves that once significant money show itself in their life (whatever significant means to them as it varies person to person), the entitlement attitude that lies deep within rears its ugly head. It's not about what we or they have sacrified, but what we or they think we deserve!

It seems to me my ex was about managing impressions. This mentality will send you broke...fast! We see the signs, but tend to ignore them because - well we're all tangled up in the relationship and ...da--- if we do da--- if we don't. So we push forward - and hope that magically it will work itself out. It rarely ever does. Most often than not, either one or the other gives in completely and let the other have their way - or we go our separate ways. Every once in a blue moon, a partner turns things around for the sake of the relationship - but you have a better chance of getting struck by lightening than have this happen. And I bet if you look back, you saw the differences in how each you valued money early on. I sure did.

It's not about the money, but the reason behind why we spend.

For example, my ex and I go to a resturant. I tip big because I want to reward the person for a job well done. My ex tip big because they liked the waiters/waitress tripping over each other to get us at their table. If you looked at just the tip - there no difference in us, but the reason behind the tip - is life changing. My ex desired a certain lifestyle. They wanted to appear as if they had the easy life - a big spender. I can have a certain level of living - but I don't need to show it to the world. Money is not the solution to all my needs. Money was the solution to all of my ex's needs.

It really comes down to...who are you really dating.

Who really is this person that you're joining with? It has been my observation that it is better to give relationship time enough for observation. For me - 3 years tends to be enough. This allows enough time to discuss and work through possible solutions to issues between the two of you. If we still are not on the same page by then, it's decsion making time - no need to continue forward on a path that's diverging. Some times the signs are glaring and the relationship ends sooner than later. But as people get older, they become more proficient in hiding their character flaws. This is where time works in our favor.

Currently, I'm not in a relationship. But when in a relationship - I am myself. Little by little, I wine. I dine. I spoil. The point is not to hold back who I am, but to see who they are as I am being who I am. Often time it is not what is said in casual conversations, but what is not said that tells me more about a person's heart, movtivations and intent.

I would say, take your future relationships slow. It's not about just choosing a person that doesn't have the traits your last partner did. It's about being able to identify characteristics that are contrary to our own. A quote I often remember: The problem with relationships is that people often date a personality and marry with a character.

You can't go into relationships trying to preemptively avoid all pit falls. Relationships are dynamic and organic. Flow with it - don't commit yourself too soon before really knowing who you're dealing with. Privately evaluate the progress of the relationship and be honest with yourself with what you're seeing in them AND what they are seeing in you. All relationships, whether they end or continue on - have value as I always learn. If I improve or they improve as a result of colliding into one another, then I consider that a win around.

I wish you all the best!

Re: THREE failed relationships due to money... unreal.

Anonymous — Tue, 07 Mar 2017 17:24:02 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Thanks for the responses above from everyone.

Allow me to provide a little more information here. With relationship #1 I will say that I did not lay down any ground rules, discuss finances etc. I wrongfully assumed that once she moved in with me and that she was making a decent amount of money that naturally she'd contribute. Since she was young and hadn't yet learned about money and life really she didn't understand why she would need to contribute. She has lived with her parents bill-free for her entire life so why not do the same with me? I chalked that relationship up to us not communicating more about that from the start, which is why I made certain that for my next relationship (and one after that) I had lengthy talks about this topic before getting involved.

You thought it was about not communicating when in truth it was about not recognizing that person #1 never had to show financial responsibility up until that point. You made a lot of assumptions about #1's character instead of objectivly observing their character. Hindsight is 20/20. But because you came to the wrong conclusion about why #1 relationship failed, you approached #2 with a solution to the wrong problem.

Lesson 1 learned: people who have never shown financial responsibility won't magically become financially responsible.

I did not "wine and dine" either of my next two girlfriends, #2 and #3 and had financial discussions with them when we were first dating into when our relationships really got serious. Like I said earlier, #2 wanted to contribute money, but couldn't because she never had any due to not being able to hold down a job, was constantly paying off other expenses (lots of traffic tickets, car problems, insurance lapses, etc). When we were dating she explained how she's always contributed 50/50 in relationships, pays her own bills and such. Coming from #1, I found this quality quite appealing with #2. It just so happened that once we got together she became increasingly more irresponsible and unstable and her actions followed suit. Her income was next to nothing so she couldn't help out. When she DID have money she would throw me a hundred bucks here and there. She never spent any money on herself (materialistic stuff) because she didn't have it... and when she DID have it she would pick helping me over buying stuff for herself. Ultimately it was a huge financial drain though being involved with her and one that I could tell would exist forever or as long as we were together.

My guess, time would have revealed #2's other character flaws. If anything impacts money flow, it's whether money is flowing consistently in the first place. My guess, you were more interested in finding someone willing to pull their weight and that is what you focused on . But you learned that many things impact one's ability to pull one's own weight. Though it helps to have money discussions, it's only one part of many important things to discuss and observe. Had I recognize my ex attitude regarding what they felt they deserved as far as raises or positions, I would have known they were likely to have high-job turnover.

Lesson #2 learned: people undermine & sabotage their/your financial future through other irresponsible, yet avoidable, actions.

Similarly when I got into my relationship with #3, I had a lengthy discussion with her about how my previous relationship failed largely in part to financial reasons. #3 thought it was ridiculous that #2 wasn't able to hold down a job and be an adult and sympathized with my ruined financial situation that came from being with #2 for years. Actually, #2 is the one that ruined my credit as we had a joint account together that she completely stopped paying on. Since she got the statements I didn't know this until the account was 120+ days past due. I ended up loaning her $6000 to pay it off, about $500-$600 of which she paid me back but that was it. #3 made it very clear to me when we were dating that she was extremely independent and would never even think of putting me in that sort of financial position. She said that we would always share expenses. Since we got pregnant very quickly, naturally this "plan" changed. We talked about it and I knew I was going to take on most if not all of our combined expenses, even a few of her expenses (car insurance, cell phone) since she would be unable to work for a while. She was out of work for only a couple of months, but upon returning to work she was forced to work less due to our schedules and lack of support system for our son. Basically neither of us could ever work at the same time as someone always had to be home with him. In time over the next year or two she was able to get a second job which she was able to bring him to (they had a day care there) so her income increased. Along with her increased income came increased spending with materialistic stuff of hers filling up the house from day to day. I resented her for this and talked to her about it. I said that I'm not only paying all of our combined bills, but am still paying several of HER bills. If she can't at least pay HER bills, she shouldn't be buying all types of fun stuff for herself. This has been a problem for about the last year and played a large role in the demise of our relationship that just recently ended.

#3 didn't appear to have the problems of #1 or #2. Well, not in the area of holding down a job or sharing expenses. #3 has a over-spending issue and I suspect resented any kind of budgeting attempts. So though not the same issue as #1 or #2, equally as damaging to finances and relationships. I would work with my partner to set budgets earlier on ..AND SEE THEIR REACTION AND HANDLING of the budget over time.

Lesson #3 learned: people can have hidden spending and budgeting problems which will eventually impact their/your financial progress.

To answer another one of the questions above, no I'm not the type of person that needs to be in a relationship. In fact, I have zero desire at this point to be in one at all. I can say now that I never want to be in another relationship, but obviously I'm speaking from negative emotions having just broken up with #3 so obviously that could change at some point. I guess I started this thread because I don't really know what I could have done differently and/or what I should do differently "next time" if there is a next time. I feel my communication was very solid with #2 and #3, not so much #1 as I hadn't yet learned about financial issues in a relationship. All of my female friends that are in relationships tell me that they contibute a lot, some even more than their boyfriends/husbands depending on their relative income levels. All of them think it's ridiculous and can't understand how my girlfriends for whatever reason have never contributed. Several of my female friends have know me for a long time and have know #1, #2 and #3 and all say how different all of them have been so it's like like I was seeking out the same (negative) quality in them whether knowingly or subconsciously.

Or maybe you're learning to be more cautious and aware of human nature and behavior.

It helps to get to the root of a matter than the initial solution that presents itself. I have personally made so many mistakes, so many wrong decisons and misjudgements. No one is perfect. No one can see all pitfalls. We can only improve with time. That's all. We either learn from our mistakes, learn from others mistakes, or are bound to repeat them.

Don't listen to what people tell you about themselves. Watch what people do, not what they say. Trust is something that is earned little by little, over time. Although I enter into relationships with a willingness to give it my all, I do not...DO NOT..blindly go all in. I prefer a cautious optimistic, but realistic approach to relationship now: I don't know you ..until I know you. LOL!

Take this time to reflect on what you missed when you were in the relationship. Ask yourself, how could you have recognized those things much earlier? What were the signs early on that maybe should have been given more attention to?

For example, an early sign before I got married was the fact that I was always trying to avoid taking on more student loans. My ex, had no problem maxing out student loans every year. Another early sign once married, was my ex inability to explain where the hell all the money went. The spending was so out of control. We went from struggling students to making 4-5 times the money. I doubled down on being financially responsible. My ex lost their mind with the money. Ridiculous really. It's like being with an adult who is still behaving like a spoiled child. Spending irresponsibly is not being a loving partner. It's being a selfish and self-centered partner.

It's understandable that you're wanting to be more cautious going forward in relationships. This is a good thing. You will heal from this and be all the more wiser.

I use to lament my many mistakes. Now they serve as a reminder on what not to do and pitfalls to avoid. I'm just glad I learned the lesson. Maybe there are others I have yet to learn. God, I hope not as I don't think I can take any more failures. But I've been reading on myFico what not to do financially in relationships and I'm bound and determine to learn from others mistakes as well as my own.

I wish you all the best. Hang in there. It does get better.

Re: THREE failed relationships due to money... unreal.

Anonymous — Tue, 07 Mar 2017 20:27:14 GMT

I totally agree with LOTR. Pay attention to behavior. A person's behavior usually translates into all areas of their life. #2 showed you she was irresponsible with repeated traffic tickets, etc. The same behavior could be seen with her finances. You expected #1 to be fiscally naive; she just lived up to your expectation.

We've all been there. LOTR said it perfectly, examine your value system in regards to finances. Pay attention to behavior. That's a hard lesson to learn, but at least you're getting it.

Re: THREE failed relationships due to money... unreal.

Anonymous — Tue, 07 Mar 2017 20:41:19 GMT

LOTR, thanks for taking the time to weigh in with your thoughtful response. I think a lot of what you said makes a lot of sense. One thing I disagree on, however, is when you said, "Lesson 1 learned: people who have never shown financial responsibility won't magically become financially responsible."

While I think this is certainly true of those that have been adults for a while (mid-late 20's or older) I don't think it's always true of those just entering adulthood.

When people first move out of living with their parents, they can enter any number of different living situations with respect to money. Some are off at school and have only the money provided by their parents (still) where some may take on part time jobs and start learning the value of money. Some start working earlier at 16 or so and already have somewhat of a concept of this. Some move out and get their own place. Some move out and get a place with a friend to keep expenses down. Some move in with a significant other. My point is, I think the quote above is a broad generalization and one that doesn't work when you're talking someone in their teens just starting their adult life. Some become financially responsible immediately almost as if it's second nature where others don't until they are forced to do so. With my #1, I took a chance with this. She had worked part time jobs for about 3 years while living at home so she did have some concept of money and it's value, even though she hadn't paid her own bills yet. It was a gamble for sure when I let such a person move in with me. A gamble that I lost. I think if it had been someone else there's more than a good chance that they would have inherently felt the need to contribute. You just really never know with someone of this age group, where if you're talking an adult in their 30's they essentially are what they are at that point. Sure there are outliers that can change, I get that, but you get my point I'm sure.

#3 was on her own since the age of 16-17, was super independent as a result and had been paying her own bills for 10+ years when we started dating. While I think she did always like to have nice things and was materialistic to some degree, she always made sure her financial obligations were met prior to any splurging. She had an average car, average phone, etc. when I met her and didn't seem to be living outside of her means. She worked tipped jobs for the most part so her income fluctuated. If she worked more and made more, she spent more. If she worked less and made less, she had no choice but to spend less. The bottom line though is that she always paid her bills first and ensured all financial obligations were met. The major difference that I saw after we had our son was that she was NOT willing to meet her financial obligations first. Spending to her was more important. She felt entitled since her income was somewhat reduced and mine remained the same after the birth of our son. While I can understand her inability (and some unwillingness) to contribute to our combined household bills, I CANNOT understand the choice to not pay all of HER OWN bills while unnecessarily spending money on materialistic stuff. I'm quite sure she was suffering from some depression and was using the excessive spending to make herself feel better and fill a void, but that's not being financially responsible. Financial obligations come first, spending comes second. That's what I always told her and while she agreed, she didn't follow this philosophy. Ever. When it got to the point last summer where I was seriously looking into taking on a second job myself (I already work 50-60 hours per week to her 25) and I told her so since i was having so much trouble getting by due to paying for everything, that was her chance to step up and offer some help. She never did though and seemed content letting me drown. I mean if you're in a relationship and tell your significant other that you want to go out to dinner or want to plan a vacation etc. and the significant other says that he can barely pay the current bills and that there's very little money left over for those types of things, what type of message does it send when you go ahead and unnecessarily spend rather than help your partner whose head is barely above water? That's where my resentment came from.

Re: THREE failed relationships due to money... unreal.

Anonymous — Tue, 07 Mar 2017 20:57:57 GMT

Best of luck to you in your relationship journey. Money differences can be a killer. It was the first discussion I had with my soon to be husband. If we didn't see things the same there was no point in dating. (I say that because you never know when you will get serious even when you don't plan to do so.) I have my money and he has his money. We divide the household expenses and decide who pays for what. We don't share a bank account and don't plan to share one. We are older and have both been married before to partners who were not responsible with money. We are both very happy with the arrangement and with each other.

I think the key is deciding what works for you and your future partner and agreeing on it and sticking to it.

Again, best of luck. Sometimes just figuring out what happened can help prevent it from happening again. It is important to forgive ourselves and the other person and move on. Just my two cents.

Re: THREE failed relationships due to money... unreal.

Anonymous — Tue, 07 Mar 2017 21:50:55 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
LOTR, thanks for taking the time to weigh in with your thoughtful response. I think a lot of what you said makes a lot of sense. One thing I disagree on, however, is when you said, "Lesson 1 learned: people who have never shown financial responsibility won't magically become financially responsible."

While I think this is certainly true of those that have been adults for a while (mid-late 20's or older) I don't think it's always true of those just entering adulthood.

When people first move out of living with their parents, they can enter any number of different living situations with respect to money. Some are off at school and have only the money provided by their parents (still) where some may take on part time jobs and start learning the value of money. Some start working earlier at 16 or so and already have somewhat of a concept of this. Some move out and get their own place. Some move out and get a place with a friend to keep expenses down. Some move in with a significant other. My point is, I think the quote above is a broad generalization and one that doesn't work when you're talking someone in their teens just starting their adult life. Some become financially responsible immediately almost as if it's second nature where others don't until they are forced to do so. With my #1, I took a chance with this. She had worked part time jobs for about 3 years while living at home so she did have some concept of money and it's value, even though she hadn't paid her own bills yet. It was a gamble for sure when I let such a person move in with me. A gamble that I lost. I think if it had been someone else there's more than a good chance that they would have inherently felt the need to contribute. You just really never know with someone of this age group, where if you're talking an adult in their 30's they essentially are what they are at that point. Sure there are outliers that can change, I get that, but you get my point I'm sure.

I agree, totally.

#3 was on her own since the age of 16-17, was super independent as a result and had been paying her own bills for 10+ years when we started dating. While I think she did always like to have nice things and was materialistic to some degree, she always made sure her financial obligations were met prior to any splurging. She had an average car, average phone, etc. when I met her and didn't seem to be living outside of her means. She worked tipped jobs for the most part so her income fluctuated. If she worked more and made more, she spent more. If she worked less and made less, she had no choice but to spend less. The bottom line though is that she always paid her bills first and ensured all financial obligations were met. The major difference that I saw after we had our son was that she was NOT willing to meet her financial obligations first. Spending to her was more important. She felt entitled since her income was somewhat reduced and mine remained the same after the birth of our son. While I can understand her inability (and some unwillingness) to contribute to our combined household bills, I CANNOT understand the choice to not pay all of HER OWN bills while unnecessarily spending money on materialistic stuff. (But when given a choice, you now see what #3's choice is!) I'm quite sure she was suffering from some depression and was using the excessive spending to make herself feel better and fill a void, but that's not being financially responsible. Financial obligations come first, spending comes second. That's what I always told her and while she agreed, she didn't follow this philosophy. Ever. When it got to the point last summer where I was seriously looking into taking on a second job myself (I already work 50-60 hours per week to her 25) and I told her so since i was having so much trouble getting by due to paying for everything, that was her chance to step up and offer some help. She never did though and seemed content letting me drown. I mean if you're in a relationship and tell your significant other that you want to go out to dinner or want to plan a vacation etc. and the significant other says that he can barely pay the current bills and that there's very little money left over for those types of things, what type of message does it send when you go ahead and unnecessarily spend rather than help your partner whose head is barely above water? That's where my resentment came from.

I think that super independence is part of the problem. The reason I say this is, bascially #3 carried the full load from a early age (I get it, I started working before I was of legal age to work).

Two problems that I know personally that can arise from being super independent early on:

1) you get use to having to carry the full load and don't really know how to depend on anyone else (or more accurately, have learned not to depend on anyone else) It's also hard to trust others judgement as you have learned to trust yours and yours alone. You've HAD to embrace financial responsibilities all on your own - whether you wanted to or not. You never got rid of that HAD to feeling.

2) you have been carrying the full load by yourself for so long, that when you finally don't have to carry that full load, you kinda let yourself go and be free for a change. You feel like you deserve it! You've struggled for so long and now you have breathing room. NOW you can have all those things you were denied because, as you so aptly stated, you had no choice. You're tired of being financially responsible. You're glad to get rid of that HAVE to feeling!

Both of these attitudes are detrimental to a relationship.

With the first attitude, you must learn to become partner with someone else. To depend on someone else. You have to learn you don't have to do it alone anymore - and embrace the fact you now have a partner in crime, so to speak.

With the second attitude, you decide to become financially lazy. You don't want to have to do this, that or the other. You're use to calling your own shots. In their mind, I've struggled long enough. I want to live! Won't you let me live, BBS? Won't you let me LIVE! LOL! (an attempt at a little humour to lighten things up a bit). It is a real problem in relationship. They like the help, but not being accountable to someone else.

Both of these fiercely independent persons will resist anyone trying to steer or guide them somewhere they have decided they don't want to be.

Two fiercely independent people: One embraces financial responsibility so tightly, they can't let go of their control of it and resent anyone who threatens it. The other, can't wait to get rid of financial responsibiilty and resent anyone who tries to make them embrace it again. Both approaching it in a way that will destroy the relationship anyway. The first, will have back control and all that comes with it. The second will have back freedom and all that comes with it.

BBS, you're so right on Lesson 1. I suppose the statement should read, people who have never shown financial responsibility won't necessarily become financially responsible.

It's basically uncharted waters There is a big difference between working and paying bills vs. working and paying no bills. The value you put on money takes on a different meaning when you have financial obligations.

Your point regarding the differences in young adults is well received. Case in point, I have a niece whom I am helping out while in college - basically paying part of her rent. Watching her becoming more and more entitled with her parents, I wanted to help give her a taste of the real world. Knowing how eager she was to "be out on her own", we came to an agreement - which she is faitfully keeping. Well, even though she is paying her bills (along with her roommates), I clearly see signs of fun first attitude and I can tell where this is headed long term if she doesn't turn that mentality around.. But my nephew, whom I am also helping while in college (and is close to the same age as this niece -his cousin), is completely different. School first, fun second! Two different young adults, two different responses to the exact same help. So again, you couldn't be more right in your point. Thank you for reminding me of this!

Re: THREE failed relationships due to money... unreal.

Anonymous — Tue, 07 Mar 2017 22:33:00 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
LOTR, thanks for taking the time to weigh in with your thoughtful response. I think a lot of what you said makes a lot of sense. One thing I disagree on, however, is when you said, "Lesson 1 learned: people who have never shown financial responsibility won't magically become financially responsible."

While I think this is certainly true of those that have been adults for a while (mid-late 20's or older) I don't think it's always true of those just entering adulthood.

When people first move out of living with their parents, they can enter any number of different living situations with respect to money. Some are off at school and have only the money provided by their parents (still) where some may take on part time jobs and start learning the value of money. Some start working earlier at 16 or so and already have somewhat of a concept of this. Some move out and get their own place. Some move out and get a place with a friend to keep expenses down. Some move in with a significant other. My point is, I think the quote above is a broad generalization and one that doesn't work when you're talking someone in their teens just starting their adult life. Some become financially responsible immediately almost as if it's second nature where others don't until they are forced to do so. With my #1, I took a chance with this. She had worked part time jobs for about 3 years while living at home so she did have some concept of money and it's value, even though she hadn't paid her own bills yet. It was a gamble for sure when I let such a person move in with me. A gamble that I lost. I think if it had been someone else there's more than a good chance that they would have inherently felt the need to contribute. You just really never know with someone of this age group, where if you're talking an adult in their 30's they essentially are what they are at that point. Sure there are outliers that can change, I get that, but you get my point I'm sure.

#3 was on her own since the age of 16-17, was super independent as a result and had been paying her own bills for 10+ years when we started dating. While I think she did always like to have nice things and was materialistic to some degree, she always made sure her financial obligations were met prior to any splurging. She had an average car, average phone, etc. when I met her and didn't seem to be living outside of her means. She worked tipped jobs for the most part so her income fluctuated. If she worked more and made more, she spent more. If she worked less and made less, she had no choice but to spend less. The bottom line though is that she always paid her bills first and ensured all financial obligations were met. The major difference that I saw after we had our son was that she was NOT willing to meet her financial obligations first. Spending to her was more important. She felt entitled since her income was somewhat reduced and mine remained the same after the birth of our son. While I can understand her inability (and some unwillingness) to contribute to our combined household bills, I CANNOT understand the choice to not pay all of HER OWN bills while unnecessarily spending money on materialistic stuff. I'm quite sure she was suffering from some depression and was using the excessive spending to make herself feel better and fill a void, but that's not being financially responsible. Financial obligations come first, spending comes second. That's what I always told her and while she agreed, she didn't follow this philosophy. Ever. When it got to the point last summer where I was seriously looking into taking on a second job myself (I already work 50-60 hours per week to her 25) and I told her so since i was having so much trouble getting by due to paying for everything, that was her chance to step up and offer some help. She never did though and seemed content letting me drown. I mean if you're in a relationship and tell your significant other that you want to go out to dinner or want to plan a vacation etc. and the significant other says that he can barely pay the current bills and that there's very little money left over for those types of things, what type of message does it send when you go ahead and unnecessarily spend rather than help your partner whose head is barely above water? That's where my resentment came from.

There it is. Right there^^^^. It's not what people say, it's what they do. She agreed that it was the right thing to do. That's all. Her actions said something otherwise.

Something else that I noticed, if fiercely independent, she may have felt you were calling the shots on whether there was money to do this or that and her spending may have been a way to rebel or gain control.

Did you by chance ever layout for her - hey dear, her are the bills... here is what is in the bank. Let's look at things together and see if we can find a way to do this? Basically let her come to her own conclusion that the money wasn't there to do it (instead of telling her it's not in there)? Do you feel she felt included in the decision to not do this, that or the other. Being fiercely independent, she would need to to feel included and a part of the decision making process. I also wondered how much she was on board with what it was going to cost her personally to have a child together.

My point being, there may be a vast many things that are coming into play that may have sparked this behavior in her. She is responsible for her own behavior. You are not responsible for her behavior. However, as a partner, we can encourage or discourage a response from our partner. Perhapsyou read her completely right at the beginning but when the other components came into play (having a child, reduced work hours, etc), other parts of her personhood revealed itself under the new circumstances.

You mentioned possible depression and spending money to meet some need. You mentioned working 50-60 hrs a week. Was she lonely? Was her asking for vacation or dining out a way of her saying - I need a break from the day to day? Fiercely independent people find it hard to ask for what they need. I wonder if she was able to communicate that effectively.

I'm not accusing her or you of anything. I know neither of you. I'm just posing questions that you may want to consider.

Ofcourse I, with a failed marriage, have all the answers. NOT! LOL! But I have learned from my mistakes and hope to help others with what little knowledge I may have.

Re: THREE failed relationships due to money... unreal.

Anonymous — Tue, 07 Mar 2017 22:43:15 GMT

Nice post above and great examples with your close in age family members that are in college on how they can be so different when it comes to the financial end of life.

With your examples above regarding what may have been the case with #3, I'd say your second example is most fitting. Perhaps she felt since she was so independent for so long that once we got together she could finally let off the gas pedal. I would think such a person would find a happy medium, but it seems #3 went to the other extreme where she felt zero need to have any financial responsibility for a number of years. She actually used the words, "let me live!" several times throughout our relationship which I find funny after you writing them. She didn't use them with respect to money though, moreso with other aspects of our relationship but it's the same general concept.

Re: THREE failed relationships due to money... unreal.

IOBA — Tue, 07 Mar 2017 23:01:20 GMT

About how long did you know the person before she moved in?

About how long did you date the person before she moved in?

About how much time was spent in overnights at your place? At her place? Before she moved in?

Did she (any of the she's) treat you to a meal out? Or just pay the tip on a meal?

Did you gift them and not receive any kind of gift in return?

Back in the school days, if a guy treated me to a meal out, I would bring back half of it for another meal. (Things were super, super tight back then. Like rent was almost every penny of my monthly paycheck, kinda of tight. Like ice formed INSIDE the apt because I couldn't afford the electric bill to turn on the heat kinda tight. I always paid my bills though.) If I was comfortable with the guy, then I would make the offer to cook a meal if he bought the groceries. That worked too. The guys felt like they were being treated and it wasn't a one way street. I even did the clean up and the dishes.

I don't think I would consider living with a guy until I had known them for a full year, at least. Some people overspend near the holidays. Others binge once a year for a super bowl party. Some people spend all year long. Some are miserly all year long. Just never know. But a year of watching the spending, hearing them talk about money, and seeing what's appearing or disappearing in their life will give some pretty big clues as to what is going on. (Do they have 16 jars of unopened peanut butter in the cabinet?)

With my last relationship (DH), he always wanted to go out to eat. After a few times, I asked if I could just cook at home. There were no signs of money problems, but I had observed that the credit card came out every time we got together. He almost never had cash. And the reality jolt was when I was with him and he was looking for a specific bank's ATM machine so he could do a cash withdrawal (translate - cash advance) off a credit card.

I didn't throw him away. I did start gently asking questions to learn more about his finances. We did the you buy groceries, I cook. And sometimes I bought the groceries and cooked. So it became a more [financially] balanced relationship. He made, by far, WAY WAY more money than me, but he felt that things were almost equal. I learned that he had a large amount of credit card debt. A vehicle that was almost paid for. Student loans. A routine of eating breakfast and lunch and almost every dinner out. It took time for him to be willing to make small changes. Regarding the debt, it was chipped away at until he let me have control of the finances. While he didn't like to talk about money, I did freely. Not about how much I made, but about how I had put away an amount for the car insurance every pay day and I had x projected to be left over after I was paid.

Small things like that. Eventually, he talked a little about money. He was embarrassed that he had made some bad choices. He was uncomfortable that he wasn't living within his means when he finally realized it. When he moved in, he couldn't afford to contribute any money towards the living expenses if he was to make his minimum payments. (I did NOT know this at the time - I really thought I would have financial relief cuz he would pay half the bills - but he couldn't pay anything...) He once left me a few hundred dollars on the kitchen counter. Didn't say a word. Later he said it was because he felt badly that I worked 7 days a week, 10+ hours a day...and I couldn't afford to renew my passport. Yeah. That was probably a turning point for us. He saw that I put the bills first and food second to last and me last. I think at that point, I had to delay the passport thing going on three months. Shortly after this, he turned over his finances to me to take care of.

If I had to do things again, prior to letting someone move in with me, I would openly talk about money. I'd want to see bank statements and pay stubs and tax returns. Now I know that I am not going to be willing to show those things to others...it's the part of me that hates sharing THAT kind of personal information with anyone that have me saying, "Oh HEL* no!" And if I am not willing to do it, I won't expect someone else to do it.

I can easily talk about putting aside money each payday to save up for car insurance, taxes, etc. I can easily talk about my payment strategies. I can easily admit that I have to save up for something that I want. This part is getting easier for me - and I did it today - to tell my friend I will meet her at the restaurant (where she wanted to eat) but I probably won't have anything. Shocking, I know. I have even met friends at restaurants and not gotten a thing while they eat. It's about them eating out (their want, not mine) and not spending money I don't have. And it's about visiting with them. There are some friends I just don't have over, period. I use to provide food for visits, but I got tired of one person coming over, eating what I had, and leaving the dishes for me to wash. It was never reciprocated. She never brought food. She never did her dishes. (I probably shouldn't chuckle about this, but she's never been to the new place. She doesn't even have the address. We meet at public places now.)

Before letting anyone move in with me, I would spend time at their place. Is it clean? Do they pick up after themselves? Is there a pile of unopened mail every time you come over? See any past due or final notices? Seeing their place will give you a pretty good idea of what it would be like to live with them and if they pay attention to details, like the mail.

Does the person treat me like I want to be treated? Do they treat me with respect?

You've had some expensive learning experiences. Maybe it's not so much about focusing on the past mistakes/grievances as it will be about talking about the future. I'd want to know what the person was willing to pay, how they were going to pay, what their expectations were, and expressing my expectations.

At the end of the day, you have to know that you can afford the living situation even if you have to pay it all yourself.

At the end of the day, YOU have to be happy.

Re: THREE failed relationships due to money... unreal.

IOBA — Tue, 07 Mar 2017 23:01:52 GMT

About how long did you know the person before she moved in?

About how long did you date the person before she moved in?

About how much time was spent in overnights at your place? At her place? Before she moved in?

Did she (any of the she's) treat you to a meal out? Or just pay the tip on a meal?

Did you gift them and not receive any kind of gift in return?

Does the person treat me like I want to be treated? Do they treat me with respect?

At the end of the day, you have to know that you can afford the living situation even if you have to pay it all yourself.

At the end of the day, YOU have to be happy.

Re: THREE failed relationships due to money... unreal.

IOBA — Tue, 07 Mar 2017 23:03:14 GMT

Um - unintentional that my message posted twice. Maybe it's worth reading twice?

Re: THREE failed relationships due to money... unreal.

Anonymous — Wed, 08 Mar 2017 20:41:22 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

#3 was on her own since the age of 16-17, was super independent as a result and had been paying her own bills for 10+ years when we started dating. While I think she did always like to have nice things and was materialistic to some degree, she always made sure her financial obligations were met prior to any splurging. She had an average car, average phone, etc. when I met her and didn't seem to be living outside of her means. She worked tipped jobs for the most part so her income fluctuated. If she worked more and made more, she spent more. If she worked less and made less, she had no choice but to spend less. The bottom line though is that she always paid her bills first and ensured all financial obligations were met. The major difference that I saw after we had our son was that she was NOT willing to meet her financial obligations first. Spending to her was more important. She felt entitled since her income was somewhat reduced and mine remained the same after the birth of our son. While I can understand her inability (and some unwillingness) to contribute to our combined household bills, I CANNOT understand the choice to not pay all of HER OWN bills while unnecessarily spending money on materialistic stuff. I'm quite sure she was suffering from some depression and was using the excessive spending to make herself feel better and fill a void, but that's not being financially responsible. Financial obligations come first, spending comes second. That's what I always told her and while she agreed, she didn't follow this philosophy. Ever. When it got to the point last summer where I was seriously looking into taking on a second job myself (I already work 50-60 hours per week to her 25) and I told her so since i was having so much trouble getting by due to paying for everything, that was her chance to step up and offer some help. She never did though and seemed content letting me drown. I mean if you're in a relationship and tell your significant other that you want to go out to dinner or want to plan a vacation etc. and the significant other says that he can barely pay the current bills and that there's very little money left over for those types of things, what type of message does it send when you go ahead and unnecessarily spend rather than help your partner whose head is barely above water? That's where my resentment came from.

I'm so sorry you're in this position. I've read through every post here, and I can see that each time you're choosing smarter and being more pro-active, and things are still failing because of money. Breaking up is already tough enough.

I'm wondering, did she recognize this depression, see a therapist, or did you suggest that she do so? When people who are depressed spend frivolously to fill a void, it's giving them what they actually require to maintain function. For example, her reasoning could be "I'm spending this money so that I can physically care for my child's needs today", because otherwise she could be too depressed to get out of bed at all and you're at work and the kid is hungry, what now? Or how does the housework get done? Independent people have a heck of a lot of pride and depression has a HUGE amount of SHAME attached to it. Knowing that she's not meeting her financial obligations would had increased the shame. Then, you resenting her for it would have increased the same even more. Shame unravels connection. Any connection, any relationship. This TED talk by shame researcher Dr. Brene Brown is quite enlightening.

She knows what she should have done. For whatever reason, she found she couldn't meet financial obligations while keeping the rest of her life intact. But that doesn't make sense because according to the numbers, she ought to be able to! Thing is, I don't think her financial mindset changed at all. I think her mental health changed, the spending was a coping mechanism to keep afloat for the sake of the kid and the relationship. Not an appropriate coping mechanism, but perhaps the only one she knew.

Now I'm going to say a few things. For me, one of the most crucial factors in a realtionship is whether we can be on each other's "team" to tackle life stuff together. If my partner is struggling, or if I am struggling, the other comes alongside and says "hey, I notice you're struggling, can we talk about what's behind this and what might be a good way forward?" And we do, and set up a game plan moving forward. And sometimes that first game plan doesn't work, so then at some point one of us goes "Hey, about that issue you're having, this approach doesn't seem to be working. Can we talk about it?" And we usually end up brainstorming other ideas, and coming up with a new game plan we both feel good about.

For example, when I felt my partner, who's been unemployed since a major car accident we survived together a year ago, wasn't looking hard enough for work, we had talks about it before my resentment could build. Turns out he wasn't informing me of most of his application efforts, so we set that up that he keep me in the loop more. Then there were still problems, his deep shame regarding the matter started affecting our relationship, so I got him talking more. We tried other approaches, and the failure of those approaches led to realizing he most likely has undiagnosed Traumatic Brain Injury from earlier in life, which the car accident may have exacerbated. He's affected badly enough that he could probably claim disability, but his pride won't let him.

It doesn't make our financial situation any easier on me, but now that I understand I can be by his side supporting him through the process. I never would have gained that understanding if I had simply told him that he needs to get a job and pull his weight, and stressed the financial aspect. (As for me, I've been significantly disabled my entire adult life, and with ~$800/month income, $500 of which is SSI, I'm the main breadwinner for us. He manages $100-$200/month most months from odd jobs)

I'm a big believer in personal responsibility and self-awareness, but I'm also a big believer in the importance of community and relationships. And everyone has blind spots, everyone needs a bit of help sometimes. My partner felt our relationship was safe enough space emotionally to communicate his shame to me, and when I engaged in the topic we were able to figure out together a LOT about the issue than he could alone. The choices of how to pursue a solution are still up to him, and if I feel the need for ultimatums I now know where to draw them. And it wouldn't be at "get a job", it would be at "get professional help sorting out both TBI diagnosis and your PTSD that prevents you from seeing doctors."

I share all this because it looks like that's something that didn't happen with this third relationship of yours. You did not end up getting on her "team" to support her through a struggle. Financially, yes, but emotionally, it was not a safe place for her to discuss her shame and figure out what's really going on. All she knows is you aren't on her side anymore. She needed a partner who was on her side.

Ideally, she would have recognized she needed therapy, made it happen, and/or sought more support from friends, and/or was aware enough to realize the spending coping mechanism was unsustainable and taken drastic measures to figure out another way of doing things. She should have tried those things. But, depression is REALLY tricky to navigate, and she might have been unable to on her own, or needed more support than she had. I don't know.

Bottom line is that's the only thing I can recommend for you to do differently next time around, is recognize when you're no longer on a partner's "side" in life, and then stop to figure out what's going on. You might gain new understanding that combats the resentment, and a solid plan to address the issue that you can support.

Re: THREE failed relationships due to money... unreal.

Anonymous — Wed, 08 Mar 2017 23:01:27 GMT

Great post above and thanks for taking the time to write it.

I did recognize earlier in our relationship, probably a year or so before the excessive spending started that #3 was depressed. I tried to "get on her team" as best I could, but she wouldn't recognize the problem. She had lots of warning signs of depression. She was drinking every day (not getting wasted, but more than a couple of drinks) which to me was a sign she was trying to escape. She was sleeping excessively. She could sleep 10 hours at night, get up for an hour and then go back to sleep for 2 hours. She wasn't taking care of herself very well. She wasn't eating particularly well. Her irritability was through the roof. She always talked about how she felt unaccomplished and sort of trapped in terms of career/financial constraints that were revealed after having our son. I tried to talk to her about these things, be there for her and help her through them but she wouldn't ever admit to depression. I think she saw that as a sign of weakness. She would admit to some of the problems (warning signs) I referenced above, but would never say that they were because of depression. I mentioned several times that I thought WE should go see a therapist (I never pointed the finger at HER) and she always shot down the idea, citing "If we can't solve our own problems somebody else isn't going to be able to help." I found this type of attitude quite difficult to deal with, especially when it got to the point that our relationship was in jeopardy and she still wasn't willing to go and talk to someone with me. The excessive spending was sort of the last warning sign that emerged a year or so ago. When we talked about it, she admitted that it felt good for her to splurge on things as it was filling a void. I told her I was there for her and would like to help her fill that void in other ways, but she seemed disconnected from that idea.

I'm sure her pursing another guy at this point is exciting to her and is making her feel alive again - another way to fill that void. I question whether or not it's going to really solve her underlying issue, though, which I truly to believe is depression.

I suppose by the time we got to arguing about money, the damage was already done as we weren't on the same "team" at that point as the previous post mentions. I felt like I did everything in my power to get on the same team and it just came to a point where financial arguments simply had to happen due to bad financial place were were in. I'm sure she resented me more for that in the end, but when it comes down to being able to pay the bills or not the choice really needs to be obvious at that point.

Re: THREE failed relationships due to money... unreal.

Anonymous — Thu, 09 Mar 2017 00:01:52 GMT

Gosh, well in that case I'd say you dodged a bullet.

I know that doesn't help it suck any less. But there was nothing you could do. I'm sorry.

It's something that can be added to the list of things to watch out for in future prospects. And, perosnally, I wouldn't chaulk this one up to money. I'd say the heart of it was she was unwilling to seek help for mental health issues. Someone like that is a ticking time bomb, IMO.

I have complex PTSD, as does my partner, both for different reasons. And the way functional relationships work for people with mental health issues is "So, I have these issues. Here's what it looks like sometimes [examples]. Here is how I manage it, to try to prevent that from happening or minimize the damage when it does. [Examples] Here's some things you could do that would be helpful to support me. [Examples] Here's some things I need to ask you to NOT do because they trigger me or are just super unhelpful. [Examples]"

It's a learning process, and generally an ongoing conversation. The nice thing is you get to discover incompatabilities early on, or just how responsible they are with their mental health. Unfortuantely because she became depressed early on, you didn't get that chance. If you did, you'd have found out right away that you were fundamentally incompatible. :/

Re: THREE failed relationships due to money... unreal.

Anonymous — Thu, 09 Mar 2017 01:07:36 GMT

I guess I just hoped that over time things would improve with respect to her depression. Things were getting easier with our son (he has special needs) so we were getting better as a team managing him. She finished up her masters degree last year and was starting to career-search. We started having some talks about our future (marriage) which I always knew was something she deeply desired. Basically I felt like things were on the upswing and as a result she could potentially start to overcome the depression. She still does have some underlying issues, such as a really bad/unloving childhood that I know continue to haunt her though. I guess it's just hard to not blame yourself and that's the point that I'm at right now. Especially because she was the one to leave me. All I can do is try and learn something from this long relationship to some how take a positive away from this mess.