topic Re: My son is mad at me (automobile related) in Relationships and Money

My son is mad at me (automobile related)

sourpuss29 — Mon, 16 Aug 2021 21:50:30 GMT

He asked me to cosign a car loan for him; and when I promptly told him, "No", he had the audacity to get an attitude. In addition to his reaction pissing me off, my feelings were lowkey hurt, because I have ALWAYS had his back whenever he needed me; however, my (good) credit is one thing that I will not put on the line for him...or anyone else.

In light of his getting a VERY good job a couple of months back that pays extremely well, he feels as though I shouldn't mind doing this favor for him, but his income had no bearing whatsoever on my not feeling comfortable with granting his request. What it all boils down to for me is the fact that he does a HORRIBLE job managing his money; and now that he's making more of it, I think it's only going to get worse.

He's worked since he was 15; and even though I taught him the basics, he has consistently refused to save ANY portion of his wages and only wants to SPEND SPEND SPEND. As it relates specifically to his credit: when I started my rebuild in 2019 and learned the ropes, I passed the knowledge I had acquired on to him so that he could begin his own journey; but instead of listening to me, he went rogue and applied for five credit cards, with nary a major one in sight. (He has constantly asked to be added as an AU on mine as well; but in light of his being hard-headed, my response has always been, NOPE.)

The sense of entitlement is really baffling to me, but the thing that irks me the most is his not respecting my stance. Has anyone else ever been in a situation like this?

Re: My son is mad at me (automobile related)

Horseshoez — Mon, 16 Aug 2021 18:50:56 GMT

@sourpuss29, the term "tough love" comes to mind here. You absolutely did the right thing and I strongly recommend you stick to your guns; he'll figure it out sooner or later, and by the sound of things, he'll figure it out the hard way. Once figured out, he'll probably be good to go; long story short, you just did him a HUGE favor!

Re: My son is mad at me (automobile related)

sourpuss29 — Mon, 16 Aug 2021 19:11:50 GMT

@Horseshoez

Tough love, indeed, and I definitely WON'T be moved.

Re: My son is mad at me (automobile related)

Brian_Earl_Spilner — Mon, 16 Aug 2021 19:22:29 GMT

I think you did the right thing. Did you actually explain why it was a no? If not, you probably should.

Re: My son is mad at me (automobile related)

sourpuss29 — Mon, 16 Aug 2021 21:46:07 GMT

@Brian_Earl_Spilner

I did, but he insisted on pretending that I was wrong as it pertains to his money mismanagement.🙄 I also reminded him that had he listened to me two years ago, his credit would be in MUCH better shape, but he wasn't particularly interested in that.😏

Re: My son is mad at me (automobile related)

tcbofade — Mon, 16 Aug 2021 22:41:19 GMT

Oh yes. One of my three ducks made a similar request a few years ago, and the answer was a firm no. I don't co sign for anyone other than my wife. She is under strict orders to not co sign for anyone other than myself.

I explained to my daughter that I simply don't have the funds to cover the note and co signing makes me responsible for it, so no.

She fussed a bit, and I DID send her some dollars to help her repair her existing automobile, but I did NOT co sign a loan for a newer one.

You did right. He'll be angry for a while, but will eventually see your wisdom.

Re: My son is mad at me (automobile related)

sourpuss29 — Tue, 17 Aug 2021 09:25:48 GMT

@tcbofade wrote:
Oh yes. One of my three ducks made a similar request a few years ago, and the answer was a firm no. I don't co sign for anyone other than my wife. She is under strict orders to not co sign for anyone other than myself.

I explained to my daughter that I simply don't have the funds to cover the note and co signing makes me responsible for it, so no.

She fussed a bit, and I DID send her some dollars to help her repair her existing automobile, but I did NOT co sign a loan for a newer one.

@tcbofade

As it pertains to the bolded: when I told him that I've brought my credit too far and that I'm not going to put the progress I've made at risk, he had the nerve to say that there wouldn't be any because of how much money he makes every month. He's so hung up on DOLLARS; however, I'm wise enough to know that ANYTHING can happen later on down the line.

I can honestly say that he and I have NEVER had a falling out, and I think that his lack of respect for my viewpoint speaks to how immature he is. It's odd to me that (some) adults think their parents owe them something; and as long as we say, "Yes," to whatever they need or want, everything's peachy...as if taking care of them for 18 years wasn't enough. *rollz eyez*

Re: My son is mad at me (automobile related)

krielly — Mon, 23 Aug 2021 14:04:06 GMT

I helped my son purchase a vehicle a couple years ago, but NOT by cosigning. He has requested I do so, and I declined.

We found a car for around $3500. I took a personal loan at 6.9% in MY name, and wrote a promissary note (listing his vehicle as collateral) I had him sign. I also listed myself as a leinholder on his title, which I held until he finished paying me off.

He had to give me 1/4 of the payment each week, and I would make the monthly payment. Once I felt he had made some consistent payments for a few months, I allowed him to pay me every 2 weeks.

I also took the loan out for 3 years, but told him this was a 2 year loan. He made his payments accordingly. I just wanted to keep the payment lower on my end in case he defaulted.

This may be an option you are able to consider. In addition, by taking a personal loan, rather than cosigning a vehicle loan, it was an unsecured loan to me, which allowed me to keep my name off from the vehicle registration (and title - other than as a lienholder) and therefore eliminate any financial responsibility on my end if he had an accident.

Re: My son is mad at me (automobile related)

RSX — Mon, 23 Aug 2021 18:25:15 GMT

Sort of

my son calls me in Dec 2018 - asking for part of a down payment on a car - didnt ask to cosign, but wanted a $1000 towards the downpayment on a VERY USED $23k car - HIGH miles - that he would be the fifth owner on and the type of car that is beat to crap by every owner

he was only making $28k per year and had only had the job 2 months - plus had zero credit at the time

i gave him $600 - told him the first $100 was an XMAS present - and asked for a small amount every month - since $500 is not a lot of money to pay down

A Relative cosigns - which if he had asked me i would have said dont do it

first thing that happens is it wont pass emissions - because of extensive modding that previous owner did - he drops major dollars on it, just to try to get a license plate for it

once it passed, he then proceeds to spend every dollar he has on it to get it faster and better - of course each mod leads to more breakage (i know how this works, as i did sort of the same - but my car was new and i could afford the cost)

skip forward a year, and his Relative claims bankruptcy.... car is repossesed - he likely owes over $10k+ on a car that he doesnt have anymore.....(i dont know the details - i stayed out of that part)

2 years later he has paid me only $100.... every 3 or 4 months i remind him that simply $25 per month would have an impact..

***note - i also learned from my father that if you lend money, pretend you will never get it back, and if it does come back, that is a bonus

soooo - yes you were right in saying NO - if you cant afford to get the car (or any loan) on your own, that means you cant afford the car or whatever you are trying to get

that said, anyone who feels comfortable cosigning so that the interest rate is lower, should feel free to do so - but always keeping in mind that is basically YOUR loan at that point, and you may end up paying the whole amount on your own - as long as you know that, all good

and no one should guilt anyone into cosigning for anything - ever

Re: My son is mad at me (automobile related)

sourpuss29 — Tue, 24 Aug 2021 01:03:26 GMT

@krielly wrote:
I helped my son purchase a vehicle a couple years ago, but NOT by cosigning. He has requested I do so, and I declined.

We found a car for around $3500. I took a personal loan at 6.9% in MY name, and wrote a promissary note (listing his vehicle as collateral) I had him sign. I also listed myself as a leinholder on his title, which I held until he finished paying me off.

He had to give me 1/4 of the payment each week, and I would make the monthly payment. Once I felt he had made some consistent payments for a few months, I allowed him to pay me every 2 weeks.

I also took the loan out for 3 years, but told him this was a 2 year loan. He made his payments accordingly. I just wanted to keep the payment lower on my end in case he defaulted.

This may be an option you are able to consider. In addition, by taking a personal loan, rather than cosigning a vehicle loan, it was an unsecured loan to me, which allowed me to keep my name off from the vehicle registration (and title - other than as a lienholder) and therefore eliminate any financial responsibility on my end if he had an accident.

K

@krielly

Thanks for the suggestion; and although I had actually entertained the idea, I'm not going to do it.

My son is the type of kid who thinks that he's sooooooo intelligent. While he possesses book smarts in spades (currently pursuing his PhD), he lacks basic common sense and is arrogant enough to honestly believe that he is smarter than me; but had he listened to the advice and guidance I offered him two years ago, he would not be in a position where he needs a co-signer. (Due to being rebuilder friendly, I even told him to join DCU like I did, and he couldn't even be bothered to do that.)

From my perspective, the ONLY person he should be mad at is himself for not following my lead. Hopefully the hard line I'm taking will teach him a VALUABLE lesson going forward: listen to your mother, because she usually DOES know best.

Re: My son is mad at me (automobile related)

sourpuss29 — Tue, 24 Aug 2021 01:24:41 GMT

@RSX wrote:
Sort of
my son calls me in Dec 2018 - asking for part of a down payment on a car - didnt ask to cosign, but wanted a $1000 towards the downpayment on a VERY USED $23k car - HIGH miles - that he would be the fifth owner on and the type of car that is beat to crap by every owner
he was only making $28k per year and had only had the job 2 months - plus had zero credit at the time

i gave him $600 - told him the first $100 was an XMAS present - and asked for a small amount every month - since $500 is not a lot of money to pay down
A Relative cosigns - which if he had asked me i would have said dont do it

first thing that happens is it wont pass emissions - because of extensive modding that previous owner did - he drops major dollars on it, just to try to get a license plate for it
once it passed, he then proceeds to spend every dollar he has on it to get it faster and better - of course each mod leads to more breakage (i know how this works, as i did sort of the same - but my car was new and i could afford the cost)

skip forward a year, and his Relative claims bankruptcy.... car is repossesed - he likely owes over $10k+ on a car that he doesnt have anymore.....(i dont know the details - i stayed out of that part)
2 years later he has paid me only $100.... every 3 or 4 months i remind him that simply $25 per month would have an impact..

***note - i also learned from my father that if you lend money, pretend you will never get it back, and if it does come back, that is a bonus

soooo - yes you were right in saying NO - if you cant afford to get the car (or any loan) on your own, that means you cant afford the car or whatever you are trying to get

that said, anyone who feels comfortable cosigning so that the interest rate is lower, should feel free to do so - but always keeping in mind that is basically YOUR loan at that point, and you may end up paying the whole amount on your own - as long as you know that, all good

and no one should guilt anyone into cosigning for anything - ever

@RSX

Thank you for sharing your story. When it comes to cosigning a loan, I suppose it's a double-edged sword, and most people never consider what might happen if the one who cosigned runs into financial hardships of their own.

As for the bolded: that was the first thing that popped into my head; and while money is not an issue for me, I will never put myself in the position of being jointly and severally liable for anything.

It's been a week, and I still haven't heard from him. My granddaughter's first birthday is next week...I figure I won't be invited to her party, but it's whatever.

Re: My son is mad at me (automobile related)

Anonymous — Sat, 28 Aug 2021 09:46:14 GMT

Do not *ever* co-sign any thing for *anybody*!

Well, maybe for a spouse, if the marriage is in good shape.

Can you comfortably afford to make his car payments through the life of the loan? There is a good chance that's exactly what will happen.

What if he defaults for a few months and doesn't bother to tell you about it? You just allowed your FICO to be trashed.

If your son can't qualify for financing on his own (car loans are not hard to get; some dealers offer special financing for first time buyers), it means he needs to look at cars in his own price range. Or, he will have to save up for a larger DP. Some people have to wait until they can save enough cash to not have to finance at all.

Cosigning will wrap you around the axel and do nothing positive for your son. Since he is bad with money, cosigning will *not* be helping him--it would be enabling him.

Re: My son is mad at me (automobile related)

Anonymous — Sat, 28 Aug 2021 09:53:05 GMT

Whoa. The kid and the relative defo learned the hard way.

Totally agree that a cosigner has to be prepared to pay the entire loan.

It becomes a sticky wicket when said kid falls behind and does not let you know. (He is the one getting the collection calls on his cell phone).

The cosigner should monitor the account closely.

The relative going BK certainly flipped the script.

Re: My son is mad at me (automobile related)

sourpuss29 — Sat, 28 Aug 2021 11:48:41 GMT

@Anonymous

After I turned him down, I suggested that he secure a loan on his own; join Navy Federal; then in six months or so, do a refi. Of course, he wasn't open to that, either, which actually made me wonder why he's resistant to anything that doesn't involve me signing on the dotted line. 🤔

Re: My son is mad at me (automobile related)

Horseshoez — Sat, 28 Aug 2021 11:56:11 GMT

@sourpuss29 wrote:
@Anonymous
After I turned him down, I suggested that he secure a loan on his own; join Navy Federal; then in six months or so, do a refi. Of course, he wasn't open to that, either, which actually made me wonder why he's resistant to anything that doesn't involve me signing on the dotted line. 🤔

I take it, no new(er) car yet; keep us posted on his evolution regarding the new ride and his attitude.

Re: My son is mad at me (automobile related)

Anonymous — Sun, 29 Aug 2021 16:00:00 GMT

I wonder if it's less about your resistance and more about his degree of impulse control.

This is something I have always struggled with myself, whatever it is, I must have it *now*.

It is difficult to settle down and think more rationally.

The low impulse control problem is a good fit for his overall recklessness with money. He sees, he wants, and he can't put rational thinking between the impulse and the act.

It may be related to a degree of OCD.

The only medical fix, according to my doctor, is mega doses of antidepressants. I suspect he would not be open to medical intervention, though I would not be above requiring an elevation as a condition of whatever he hits you up for next. NILF = Nothing In Life is Free. (We use that in dog training, I can see utility with kids, too).

Your suggestion about Navy Fed is an excellent one. If he listens, great; if he doesn't, it's on him.

It must be excruciating for you to have to be in the observer position on this. I am sorry for that. Unfortunately, he will probably have to bottom out before he catches on that money is finite. It's a good sign that he is able to get and hold a well paying job.

Try to hang tough and hold to the *no bailout* policy (unless you're a member of Congress, of course).

Enabling will make it worse. Let him talk about his feelings, as long as he does it respectfully. He may give himself a much needed lightbulb moment if he can do a deep dive into his own feelings.

It will be interesting to watch this unfold. I hope you will keep us posted. I would think that there are parents out there in lurkdom who are interested in how this plays out.

Btw, I read an article a few years ago about youngsters and debt. The hypothesis was that many young people carry a mindset of "big money in the future". They believe that big money will be coming to them down the road. But, they lack any well reasoned and realistic idea of how this will happen. This delusion can create a lot of financial havoc.

All the best to you.

Re: My son is mad at me (automobile related)

sourpuss29 — Mon, 30 Aug 2021 03:06:22 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I wonder if it's less about your resistance and more about his degree of impulse control...The low impulse control problem is a good fit for his overall recklessness with money. He sees, he wants, and he can't put rational thinking between the impulse and the act...

It must be excruciating for you to have to be in the observer position on this. I am sorry for that. Unfortunately, he will probably have to bottom out before he catches on that money is finite. It's a good sign that he is able to get and hold a well paying job.

Try to hang tough and hold to the *no bailout* policy (unless you're a member of Congress, of course).

Enabling will make it worse. Let him talk about his feelings, as long as he does it respectfully. He may give himself a much needed lightbulb moment if he can do a deep dive into his own feelings.

It will be interesting to watch this unfold. I hope you will keep us posted. I would think that there are parents out there in lurkdom who are interested in how this plays out.

Btw, I read an article a few years ago about youngsters and debt. The hypothesis was that many young people carry a mindset of "big money in the future". They believe that big money will be coming to them down the road. But, they lack any well reasoned and realistic idea of how this will happen. This delusion can create a lot of financial havoc.

@Anonymous

You hit the nail on the head as it pertains to my son's lack of self-control; and while I understand the concept of working hard and reserving the right to treat one's self to material things, he takes it to the next level. My kid also fits the mold as it pertains to the article you referenced. Since graduating from university, he has been fortunate in that the jobs he's held paid well; however, now that he's moved into "career" territory, I believe that he's earning more money than he is equipped to handle.

The "no bailout" part made me chuckle; but trust me...that's not going to happen, because I'm not the type of person who flip flops once I've made a decision. I also want to add that while I appreciate your empathizing with me regarding this situation, I have to say that, no...watching from the sidelines is not "excruciating" for me, because I have consistently gone out of my way to steer him down the right (financial) path. I tried to guide him...he chose to disregard the advice, so whatever happens as a result of his deciding to do so is on him. I did my job; and at this point in my life, the ONLY one I have ANY responsibility to is myself.

And yes...I will definitely update the thread when/if there is one.

Re: My son is mad at me (automobile related)

VetMom — Tue, 07 Sep 2021 03:15:16 GMT

"You've never had a falling out?" Boy do I remember those naive days! Lets just say several sources informed me I was being trashed behind my back because the day of enabling an ungrateful child ended!! Never trust this type of child! I came back from a bankruptcy over 20 years ago so my children have no excuses not to listen! Like my cabinets painter (just finished gorgeous renovation on condo THANK YOU VA!!)just said "Now I see the value in great credit!!!" My ungrateful child has done some horrible stuff behind my back not listening but I was smart enough that if I had $10k she thought I had $1k!! Now only my grandsons are important(took them school shopping)! My financial advisor is so proud I finally woke up now my investments etc. are skyrocketing!!

Now lets discuss the time I did cosign a car loan as a gift to a child that broke all kinds of high school/collegiate sports records got recruited into the B10 full scholarship! Now works in Manhattan in a great job!! Believe me I made sure car was a range I could easily pay off if another child went rogue! Dealership told her "I rarely see kids your age with these scores THANK YOUR MOM!!" On her b day I set her up in bank paid off car! She started crying because she's not ungrateful! Bank tellers started clapping!

I miss Suze Orman because she knows us mamas make bad decisions falling for guilt trips!! Now back to enjoying my new Toyota Highlander CPO!! I loved seeing the salesman's jaw drop when I tricked him into trade number FIRST before I called financial advisor told him transfer number dropped $16k including trade!! BOOM! Finance rep tried to make me feel guilty I could afford more car because so many get cars they can't afford! They were mad I kept downpayment number a secret! Hahaha Learned after Nissan tricked me! Cosby playing broke at dealership fave episode!!!

Hold your ground mama in my Suze Orman voice....

Re: My son is mad at me (automobile related)

LawStudentCivilis — Thu, 09 Sep 2021 16:12:16 GMT

@sourpuss29 wrote:
@RSX wrote:
Sort of
my son calls me in Dec 2018 - asking for part of a down payment on a car - didnt ask to cosign, but wanted a $1000 towards the downpayment on a VERY USED $23k car - HIGH miles - that he would be the fifth owner on and the type of car that is beat to crap by every owner
he was only making $28k per year and had only had the job 2 months - plus had zero credit at the time

i gave him $600 - told him the first $100 was an XMAS present - and asked for a small amount every month - since $500 is not a lot of money to pay down
A Relative cosigns - which if he had asked me i would have said dont do it

first thing that happens is it wont pass emissions - because of extensive modding that previous owner did - he drops major dollars on it, just to try to get a license plate for it
once it passed, he then proceeds to spend every dollar he has on it to get it faster and better - of course each mod leads to more breakage (i know how this works, as i did sort of the same - but my car was new and i could afford the cost)

skip forward a year, and his Relative claims bankruptcy.... car is repossesed - he likely owes over $10k+ on a car that he doesnt have anymore.....(i dont know the details - i stayed out of that part)
2 years later he has paid me only $100.... every 3 or 4 months i remind him that simply $25 per month would have an impact..

***note - i also learned from my father that if you lend money, pretend you will never get it back, and if it does come back, that is a bonus

soooo - yes you were right in saying NO - if you cant afford to get the car (or any loan) on your own, that means you cant afford the car or whatever you are trying to get

that said, anyone who feels comfortable cosigning so that the interest rate is lower, should feel free to do so - but always keeping in mind that is basically YOUR loan at that point, and you may end up paying the whole amount on your own - as long as you know that, all good

and no one should guilt anyone into cosigning for anything - ever

@RSX
Thank you for sharing your story. When it comes to cosigning a loan, I suppose it's a double-edged sword, and most people never consider what might happen if the one who cosigned runs into financial hardships of their own.

As for the bolded: that was the first thing that popped into my head; and while money is not an issue for me, I will never put myself in the position of being jointly and severally liable for anything.

It's been a week, and I still haven't heard from him. My granddaughter's first birthday is next week...I figure I won't be invited to her party, but it's whatever.

OP I am sorry to hear that. I hope that wasn't the case, that is beyond petty and immature. I am going to assume your son may possibly be in my age group, but maybe not. Either way, my parents let us children know "no" is a complete sentence from a young age. I knew not to try them lol. Family can be complicated, and all types of personalities are what they are regardless of how they were raised. Thanks for sharing and bravo to you for being steadfast in your decision. In this situation it served you very well not to fall for his demands, and he is simply mad he couldn't get his way.

Re: My son is mad at me (automobile related)

sourpuss29 — Sat, 11 Sep 2021 11:26:24 GMT

@LawStudentCivilis

The ingrate is 28; and although I thought I knew him well, this entire situation has opened my eyez to his gross lack of character. As for baby girl's birthday party: it was delayed until next week, and her mom did invite me.