topic Re: To BT or not to BT? in Personal Finance

To BT or not to BT?

tcbofade — Sun, 18 Apr 2021 15:32:50 GMT

As most of you know, DW and I are still doing the balance transfer shuffle, but we're making progress and our total credit card debt goes DOWN every month.

I've got a balance transfer offer that I honestly don't NEED right now, but will certainly need later this year.

DW is paying down five credit cards with zero percent deal on them. Two expire in September, two in October, and one in November.

We've already got the cash on hand to pay off the two that expire in September.

By the time October arrives, we should have the cash to pay off one of the two that expire in October.

We may or may not have more balance transfer offers available to us at that time. I'm not psychic.

Do I take advantage of this offer, or let it pass?

No hurry. I've got 45 days or so to decide.

Re: To BT or not to BT?

pizza1 — Sun, 18 Apr 2021 17:18:47 GMT

I would say if you continue to need it, then yes take advantage of it, as we all know the offers could stop at anytime. I didn't get any offers for almost 2 years, and September isn't that far away now anyways.

I would wait closer to the end of that 45 days, and then proceed. There's no shame in it, and you're paying it down, and thats what they're there for.

Re: To BT or not to BT?

coldfusion — Sun, 18 Apr 2021 22:48:11 GMT

Bird in the hand....

Doubling down, given the recent dodookakapoopooshow at work you might want to ensure you have this particular duck lined up in case you have a "I don't wanna deal with this mess any more" moment and decide you want to take a hike.

Re: To BT or not to BT?

sxa001 — Mon, 19 Apr 2021 20:19:30 GMT

If you think you will need it, I would take it because you never know. As others have said there is no shame, if it makes financial sense to do it and avoid paying extra interest later on down the road then it is a no-brainer.

Re: To BT or not to BT?

M_Smart007 — Mon, 19 Apr 2021 20:30:44 GMT

@tcbofade, I'd go for the "BLT" ... "Balance Later Transfer"

Re: To BT or not to BT?

kilroy8 — Mon, 19 Apr 2021 20:38:49 GMT

Using other people's money at no/low interest is smart.

As long as you are not digging hole deeper.

Re: To BT or not to BT?

AverageJoesCredit — Tue, 20 Apr 2021 02:28:19 GMT

Taco, by chance do you have PSECU?

Re: To BT or not to BT?

K-in-Boston — Tue, 20 Apr 2021 02:31:12 GMT

As a fellow shuffler, I feel your concern with the "do it now or wait until I really need it" dilemma. I do try to ride the 0% offers for as long as possible. Most of them have a fee, so any months you cut off of that really does jack up the effective APR you paid. 6 months left is a long time for a BT. It really comes down to risk tolerance and how much extra you're willing to pay. Personally, I wouldn't pay one off this early but I know my profile well and can make that call. Unfortunately, none of us have a crystal ball to see what your creditors might offer or not offer.

One thing I would say you have going for you is that the offer is good for 45 days. Hopefully by then, you can take a look and see if you have other offers with dates further out? And if not, then decide whether to eat a few months of what might be essentially an insurance surcharge to yourself or decide to roll the dice and see what comes along later in the year or apply for a new card?

Re: To BT or not to BT?

tcbofade — Tue, 20 Apr 2021 08:28:35 GMT

@AverageJoesCredit wrote:
Taco, by chance do you have PSECU?

I do not.

Who dat?

Re: To BT or not to BT?

Anonymous — Tue, 20 Apr 2021 17:45:35 GMT

Fortunately for me I was able to app a couple cards with along term 0% on purchases during the span of dried up BT's, so I just charged all my expenses up on that for the duration while keeping the cash on the Bank. The plus side with purchase promos is no BT fee of 3-5%.

So I haven't really needed any of the new BT offers that have been coming in lately as I have until Sept./Dec. to pay those balances off, I also haven't been wanting to keep any balances as I've been considering a Mortgage. And i know once that's finished I'll need couple BT's for the costs involved with that. Yet like people say those BT offers could dry up tomorrow, so it's a conundrum.

Re: To BT or not to BT?

AverageJoesCredit — Wed, 21 Apr 2021 00:26:58 GMT

@tcbofade wrote:
@AverageJoesCredit wrote:
Taco, by chance do you have PSECU?
I do not.

Who dat?

Who dere??

Lol, Pennsylvania State Educators Credit Union.

Pretty good CU with awesome cc's that come with flat apr rate that can be used like cash advance and once you get one might see some fantastic BT potential. May not be 0% but i just got 3.9 apr offer on my Founders Visa until Dec 2022!. Good option for ya maybe down the road or now. Low apr cards are always a benny plus being able to take out your whole cc limit without being frowned upon is a plus. Happy 🌮 Tursday

Re: To BT or not to BT?

tcbofade — Wed, 21 Apr 2021 00:43:42 GMT

Thanks, @AverageJoesCredit .

As I mentioned, we're actually fine at the moment (and making progress every month!)

...but I'll keep them in mind for next year!

Re: To BT or not to BT?

iced — Wed, 21 Apr 2021 23:29:08 GMT

@tcbofade wrote:
As most of you know, DW and I are still doing the balance transfer shuffle, but we're making progress and our total credit card debt goes DOWN every month.

I've got a balance transfer offer that I honestly don't NEED right now, but will certainly need later this year.

DW is paying down five credit cards with zero percent deal on them. Two expire in September, two in October, and one in November.

We've already got the cash on hand to pay off the two that expire in September.

By the time October arrives, we should have the cash to pay off one of the two that expire in October.

We may or may not have more balance transfer offers available to us at that time. I'm not psychic.

Do I take advantage of this offer, or let it pass?

No hurry. I've got 45 days or so to decide.

Personally not a fan of BTs. The fees they charge tend to suck up any gains in interest unless one is moving a balance from a very high interest rate source. Moving from a 0% card or BT to another feels like a loss to me if you will be able to pay off within a few months anyway.

Re: To BT or not to BT?

AverageJoesCredit — Sun, 25 Apr 2021 13:55:17 GMT

@iced wrote:
@tcbofade wrote:
As most of you know, DW and I are still doing the balance transfer shuffle, but we're making progress and our total credit card debt goes DOWN every month.

I've got a balance transfer offer that I honestly don't NEED right now, but will certainly need later this year.

DW is paying down five credit cards with zero percent deal on them. Two expire in September, two in October, and one in November.

We've already got the cash on hand to pay off the two that expire in September.

By the time October arrives, we should have the cash to pay off one of the two that expire in October.

We may or may not have more balance transfer offers available to us at that time. I'm not psychic.

Do I take advantage of this offer, or let it pass?

No hurry. I've got 45 days or so to decide.
Personally not a fan of BTs. The fees they charge tend to suck up any gains in interest unless one is moving a balance from a very high interest rate source. Moving from a 0% card or BT to another feels like a loss to me if you will be able to pay off within a few months anyway.

Not everyone can pay off debt in a few months so for many bts are invaluable. Even some on here who have the means prefer to float that because they can so i for one am glad we have the option.

Re: To BT or not to BT?

tcbofade — Sun, 25 Apr 2021 14:27:07 GMT

For a variety of reasons, DW and I have been playing the BT shuffle game for some time...

We've made HUGE progress paying down credit card debt already this year, and the total balances are going down every month.

We will not, however, get every balance paid before the zero percent offer expires, so each new offer requires some inspection and some math.

Thanks everyone for the opinions... currently, I'm waiting to see if the offer gets extended... if it does, we'll wait until June... if it doesn't, I'll take the offer at the end of May!

Re: To BT or not to BT?

coldfusion — Sun, 25 Apr 2021 14:38:46 GMT

@AverageJoesCredit wrote:
@iced wrote:
Personally not a fan of BTs. The fees they charge tend to suck up any gains in interest unless one is moving a balance from a very high interest rate source. Moving from a 0% card or BT to another feels like a loss to me if you will be able to pay off within a few months anyway.
Not everyone can pay off debt in a few months so for many bts are invaluable. Even some on here who have the means prefer to float that because they can so i for one am glad we have the option.

Especially if you're able to leverage a 0% APR 0% fee promotion. if a lender you trust (I don't have to like you to trust you) is willing to let you use their money for free while letting you demonstrate that you're a reliable borrower it's worth consideration.

Re: To BT or not to BT?

iced — Sun, 25 Apr 2021 14:45:54 GMT

@AverageJoesCredit wrote:
@iced wrote:
Personally not a fan of BTs. The fees they charge tend to suck up any gains in interest unless one is moving a balance from a very high interest rate source. Moving from a 0% card or BT to another feels like a loss to me if you will be able to pay off within a few months anyway.
Not everyone can pay off debt in a few months so for many bts are invaluable. Even some on here who have the means prefer to float that because they can so i for one am glad we have the option.

I get that some can't pay off their debts, but I would would also argue they're not the ones asking this sort of question. For them, it's not to BT or not to BT, it's which BT because no BT isn't an option on their table. Discussion around those debts is a different topic for a different thread.

For those who do have the means, these rarely are really worth the expense. If the BT is 0% but still charges a $5/3% fee, that's $30 per $1,000 transferred, and that BT rarely remains 0% longer than 12-15 months. At present, there are few savings options that will exceed that 3% in return over the same 12-15 months, and the duration is too short to put in equities without increased risk of loss. A 0% BT with $0 fee is a different matter, though expectations should be set that the gain is still minimal and may simply not be worth the hassle of dealing with a BT at all.

The one case I can think of where these may make for a comfortable option is someone who can pay it off but that payment would represent a significant dent in their savings. If one has $7,000 in emergency savings and is looking at paying off a $5,000 debt, I can see the rationale to pay the $150 to BT in order to preserve the $7,000 emergency net, though if one plays that through to the endgame, they realize they're exposing themselves to a potentially bigger problem should they end up needing to exhaust that emergency savings and are now left with a $5,000 debt that's about to explode in interest rate. It's often better then to have just paid the debt and if the worst-case scenario did come to pass, one can re-accrue debt as needed rather than having the entire amount suddenly subject to interest.

Re: To BT or not to BT?

tcbofade — Sun, 25 Apr 2021 22:37:11 GMT

@iced wrote:
@AverageJoesCredit wrote:
@iced wrote:
Personally not a fan of BTs. The fees they charge tend to suck up any gains in interest unless one is moving a balance from a very high interest rate source. Moving from a 0% card or BT to another feels like a loss to me if you will be able to pay off within a few months anyway.
Not everyone can pay off debt in a few months so for many bts are invaluable. Even some on here who have the means prefer to float that because they can so i for one am glad we have the option.
I get that some can't pay off their debts, but I would would also argue they're not the ones asking this sort of question. For them, it's not to BT or not to BT, it's which BT because no BT isn't an option on their table. Discussion around those debts is a different topic for a different thread.

For those who do have the means, these rarely are really worth the expense. If the BT is 0% but still charges a $5/3% fee, that's $30 per $1,000 transferred, and that BT rarely remains 0% longer than 12-15 months. At present, there are few savings options that will exceed that 3% in return over the same 12-15 months, and the duration is too short to put in equities without increased risk of loss. A 0% BT with $0 fee is a different matter, though expectations should be set that the gain is still minimal and may simply not be worth the hassle of dealing with a BT at all.

The one case I can think of where these may make for a comfortable option is someone who can pay it off but that payment would represent a significant dent in their savings. If one has $7,000 in emergency savings and is looking at paying off a $5,000 debt, I can see the rationale to pay the $150 to BT in order to preserve the $7,000 emergency net, though if one plays that through to the endgame, they realize they're exposing themselves to a potentially bigger problem should they end up needing to exhaust that emergency savings and are now left with a $5,000 debt that's about to explode in interest rate. It's often better then to have just paid the debt and if the worst-case scenario did come to pass, one can re-accrue debt as needed rather than having the entire amount suddenly subject to interest.

So apparently, I'll need to start a new thread.

In an odd way, thank you for the clarification tho. Beggars can't be choosers. Gotcha.

Re: To BT or not to BT?

AverageJoesCredit — Sun, 25 Apr 2021 22:50:35 GMT

@tcbofade wrote:
@iced wrote:
@AverageJoesCredit wrote:
@iced wrote:
Personally not a fan of BTs. The fees they charge tend to suck up any gains in interest unless one is moving a balance from a very high interest rate source. Moving from a 0% card or BT to another feels like a loss to me if you will be able to pay off within a few months anyway.
Not everyone can pay off debt in a few months so for many bts are invaluable. Even some on here who have the means prefer to float that because they can so i for one am glad we have the option.
I get that some can't pay off their debts, but I would would also argue they're not the ones asking this sort of question. For them, it's not to BT or not to BT, it's which BT because no BT isn't an option on their table. Discussion around those debts is a different topic for a different thread.

For those who do have the means, these rarely are really worth the expense. If the BT is 0% but still charges a $5/3% fee, that's $30 per $1,000 transferred, and that BT rarely remains 0% longer than 12-15 months. At present, there are few savings options that will exceed that 3% in return over the same 12-15 months, and the duration is too short to put in equities without increased risk of loss. A 0% BT with $0 fee is a different matter, though expectations should be set that the gain is still minimal and may simply not be worth the hassle of dealing with a BT at all.

The one case I can think of where these may make for a comfortable option is someone who can pay it off but that payment would represent a significant dent in their savings. If one has $7,000 in emergency savings and is looking at paying off a $5,000 debt, I can see the rationale to pay the $150 to BT in order to preserve the $7,000 emergency net, though if one plays that through to the endgame, they realize they're exposing themselves to a potentially bigger problem should they end up needing to exhaust that emergency savings and are now left with a $5,000 debt that's about to explode in interest rate. It's often better then to have just paid the debt and if the worst-case scenario did come to pass, one can re-accrue debt as needed rather than having the entire amount suddenly subject to interest.
So apparently, I'll need to start a new thread.

In an odd way, thank you for the clarification tho. Beggars can't be choosers. Gotcha.

Lol, i think you are doing ok Taco. If memory serves me , @K-in-Boston , who does well financially has used bts to better his financial situation so if done right, they can be a great tool. Unfortunately for me, due to life, covid, etc, ill need to continue using them until hopefully one day i wont need to. Hard part is maintaining good credit since most lenders dont want to offer them if your credit is not that great. Enjoy Sunday cuz tomorrow is......

Re: To BT or not to BT?

iced — Mon, 26 Apr 2021 01:32:54 GMT

@tcbofade wrote:
@iced wrote:
@AverageJoesCredit wrote:
@iced wrote:
Personally not a fan of BTs. The fees they charge tend to suck up any gains in interest unless one is moving a balance from a very high interest rate source. Moving from a 0% card or BT to another feels like a loss to me if you will be able to pay off within a few months anyway.
Not everyone can pay off debt in a few months so for many bts are invaluable. Even some on here who have the means prefer to float that because they can so i for one am glad we have the option.
I get that some can't pay off their debts, but I would would also argue they're not the ones asking this sort of question. For them, it's not to BT or not to BT, it's which BT because no BT isn't an option on their table. Discussion around those debts is a different topic for a different thread.

For those who do have the means, these rarely are really worth the expense. If the BT is 0% but still charges a $5/3% fee, that's $30 per $1,000 transferred, and that BT rarely remains 0% longer than 12-15 months. At present, there are few savings options that will exceed that 3% in return over the same 12-15 months, and the duration is too short to put in equities without increased risk of loss. A 0% BT with $0 fee is a different matter, though expectations should be set that the gain is still minimal and may simply not be worth the hassle of dealing with a BT at all.

The one case I can think of where these may make for a comfortable option is someone who can pay it off but that payment would represent a significant dent in their savings. If one has $7,000 in emergency savings and is looking at paying off a $5,000 debt, I can see the rationale to pay the $150 to BT in order to preserve the $7,000 emergency net, though if one plays that through to the endgame, they realize they're exposing themselves to a potentially bigger problem should they end up needing to exhaust that emergency savings and are now left with a $5,000 debt that's about to explode in interest rate. It's often better then to have just paid the debt and if the worst-case scenario did come to pass, one can re-accrue debt as needed rather than having the entire amount suddenly subject to interest.
So apparently, I'll need to start a new thread.

In an odd way, thank you for the clarification tho. Beggars can't be choosers. Gotcha.

You yourself said in your OP you have the cash on hand to pay the upcoming debts off. Are you now telling me that's not the case?