topic Re: Rant about Evansville Teachers FCU in Personal Finance

Rant about Evansville Teachers FCU

SouthJamaica — Sun, 19 Jun 2022 16:23:26 GMT

This credit union keeps receiving raves about its high interest checking account -- which I would never use because it requires you to use your debit card for spend, which I would never do. If I were someone who wished to deposit a significantly large amount of money in my checking account, sufficient for it to be meaningful enough for the high interest to count for something, I wouldn't put that money at risk by using a debit card at gas stations, restaurants, online purchases, etc.

Meanwhile, the services I do need -- processing of online credit card payments, ACH transfers, credit card balance transfers -- are all slow as molasses.

And the ACH transfers have a ridiculously low limit -- $1k.

To me this credit union is like fingernails scratching a blackboard.

Just voicing a contrary point of view.

Re: Rant about Evansville Teachers FCU

Kforce — Mon, 20 Jun 2022 02:41:27 GMT

@SouthJamaica wrote:
And the ACH transfers have a ridiculously low limit -- $1k.

Don't have "Evansville Teachers FCU", however I have recently closed and moved away from CU's and Banks with low limit ACH transfer amounts. Have closed both "USAlliance" and "Western State Bank" because of transfer limits. Both had/have very nice interest rates, just not worth the limited transfers. For me limits are the fingernails on a blackboard. It is now off my list of places.

I know exactly of what you speak.

Re: Rant about Evansville Teachers FCU

Duke_Nukem — Tue, 21 Jun 2022 15:32:10 GMT

@SouthJamaica wrote:
This credit union keeps receiving raves about its high interest checking account -- which I would never use because it requires you to use your debit card for spend, which I would never do. If I were someone who wished to deposit a significantly large amount of money in my checking account, sufficient for it to be meaningful enough for the high interest to count for something, I wouldn't put that money at risk by using a debit card at gas stations, restaurants, online purchases, etc.

Meanwhile, the services I do need -- processing of online credit card payments, ACH transfers, credit card balance transfers -- are all slow as molasses.

And the ACH transfers have a ridiculously low limit -- $1k.

To me this credit union is like fingernails scratching a blackboard.

Just voicing a contrary point of view.

We don't use their debit card for purchases. Luckily, their debit card is counted as usage by "loading" our Cashapp accounts (also counts on Venmo)... which is not used for anything other than for ETFCU bank cash account loading (like $1 transfers). Then transfer those reloads to ETFCU account, which is designated as a direct deposit.

Yes, those low transfer limits stink... but you can pull from another source up to that bank's limits so there is a workaround for that annoyance.

I thought ETFCU had next day ACH transfers when I did use it, but I may have them confused with Affinity FCU.

Re: Rant about Evansville Teachers FCU

PullingMeSoftly — Tue, 21 Jun 2022 19:04:24 GMT

When I initially funded my Vertical chacking acct's (P1 and P2), I was able to speak with a representative who raised my ACH limit temporarily to allow for some of the bulk funding on one of the accounts, and I also did a wire transfer for the other account.

Like you I don't use debit cards, but am finding the combo of cash app and Amazon .50's to fulfill the monthly req's nicely without exposing the cards to point of sale transactions. The interest reward has been rock solid and no issues with this FI at all (so far of course).

Re: Rant about Evansville Teachers FCU

GatorGuy — Tue, 21 Jun 2022 20:16:34 GMT

Just like with credit cards there are always advantages and disadvantages to bank accounts. Hard to find anything that is perfect, and even then, what is perfect for one person is probably terrible to someone else.

Re: Rant about Evansville Teachers FCU

SouthJamaica — Wed, 22 Jun 2022 02:41:27 GMT

@PullingMeSoftly wrote:
When I initially funded my Vertical chacking acct's (P1 and P2), I was able to speak with a representative who raised my ACH limit temporarily to allow for some of the bulk funding on one of the accounts, and I also did a wire transfer for the other account.

Like you I don't use debit cards, but am finding the combo of cash app and Amazon .50's to fulfill the monthly req's nicely without exposing the cards to point of sale transactions. The interest reward has been rock solid and no issues with this FI at all (so far of course).

Point of sale transactions are one danger point, but not the only one. Online transactions could lead to problems as well.

Re: Rant about Evansville Teachers FCU

Gingi — Thu, 30 Jun 2022 11:06:51 GMT

I just joined this CU 2 weeks ago and couldn't be happier. I feel like it's the perfect hub account. ACH transfers in /out are incredibly fast- next day. Not sure why your experience was different @SouthJamaica? Ach transfers from external accts that l initiate from ETFCU are fully available the next day. You can link external accts thru Plaid so no need to wait 2-3 days for trial deposits. I have 15 external accounts linked and they may allow even more. I don't have any other bank/CU accts that allows even 10 linked external accts so this is a big plus for me. Regarding ACH limits my initial limit was $3,500/day/week/month for inbound and outbound but l sent a secure message thru the website asking them to raise it and they raised my inbound limit to $20K for the next 30 days. Unfortunately they would only raise my outbound monthly limit to $5K for now bc 1) it's a new acct & 2) (real reason) I had a returned payment /nsf (my fault- l mixed up the external accts l was pulling from) but they did refund me the $27 nsf as a courtesy. I think if you request an increase on the ACH limits they will do it and you will probably have even better luck than me with regards to the outbound limit. I opened my acct in the middle of the month and there was some confusion about my address which caused a delay in mailing out my debit card so ETFCU agreed to honor the 3.3% apy this month since l obviously can't make 15 debit card transactions if l don't have the debit card. Everyone l have communicated with either by email or phone has been incredibly pleasant and eager to help. I think the key is that you just need to ask for what you need/want. Like you l was hesitant to open an acct with this CU bc of the debit card requirements by then l found out that Cash App satisfies the requirements.

Re: Rant about Evansville Teachers FCU

SouthJamaica — Thu, 30 Jun 2022 16:40:24 GMT

@Gingi wrote:
I just joined this CU 2 weeks ago and couldn't be happier. I feel like it's the perfect hub account. ACH transfers in /out are incredibly fast- next day. Not sure why your experience was different @SouthJamaica? Ach transfers from external accts that l initiate from ETFCU are fully available the next day. You can link external accts thru Plaid so no need to wait 2-3 days for trial deposits. I have 15 external accounts linked and they may allow even more. I don't have any other bank/CU accts that allows even 10 linked external accts so this is a big plus for me. Regarding ACH limits my initial limit was $3,500/day/week/month for inbound and outbound but l sent a secure message thru the website asking them to raise it and they raised my inbound limit to $20K for the next 30 days. Unfortunately they would only raise my outbound monthly limit to $5K for now bc 1) it's a new acct & 2) (real reason) I had a returned payment /nsf (my fault- l mixed up the external accts l was pulling from) but they did refund me the $27 nsf as a courtesy. I think if you request an increase on the ACH limits they will do it and you will probably have even better luck than me with regards to the outbound limit. I opened my acct in the middle of the month and there was some confusion about my address which caused a delay in mailing out my debit card so ETFCU agreed to honor the 3.3% apy this month since l obviously can't make 15 debit card transactions if l don't have the debit card. Everyone l have communicated with either by email or phone has been incredibly pleasant and eager to help. I think the key is that you just need to ask for what you need/want. Like you l was hesitant to open an acct with this CU bc of the debit card requirements by then l found out that Cash App satisfies the requirements.

1. I'm happy you're happy with them.

2. It sounds to me like you've had your problems with them and have had to spend time trying to iron them out. In 2 weeks you've spent more time communicating with their member service department than I usually spend in 5 years with any institution.

3. Do you have a credit card with them? If so, (a) how do you make online payments and (b) how do you initiate balance transfers? If not, then you're not really aware of 2 of the 3 things I was talking about.

4. I know of many credit unions which do not limit the number of external accounts (unless it's to a very high number I have not reached).

5. I'm going to follow your suggestion of asking them to provide what I need. Maybe that will help. I'm not the 'squeaky wheel' type. I like to receive good service from the outset, without having to ask for it.

6. I'm not familiar with "Cash App"; I'm skeptical that linking an app like that to one's checking account is invulnerable to fraud. Here's something from the first article I found when looking it up:

"Cash App payments are encrypted, most payments are made instantly, and usually the payments cannot be cancelled once the money is sent. This definitely leaves room for fraud and other crimes of social engineering.

“Third party apps like this, although they may be PCI-DSS compliant and encrypt all of their data, still put the responsibility on the user to make sure they use strong security and privacy practices for protecting their account,” says Kimble.

Sattar also notes that Cash App users can be susceptible to some forms of cybercrime, due to the digital nature of the payment service"

https://time.com/nextadvisor/credit-cards/cash-app-guide/

Sounds to me like it's just as vulnerable as making online payments with your debit card.

7. Almost every time I've tried to add external accounts to ETFCU's site the process hasn't completed, but returns an error message instead.

Update: I tried Gingi's suggestion of asking them, via secure message, to increase my transfer limit. Contrary to Gingi's experience, I received a creepy, high handed, response from Member Service, interrogating me as to the reasons I would do ACH transfers, as if it were a criminal enterprise, and saying that after I tell them the reasons, then they will submit my "request" for "manager review". After I responded, they interrogated me further. And also suggested that I apply for an ACH transfer limit increase on a case by case basis. This credit union is junky; I'm glad Gingi is happy with it; I'm not. BTW I have 2 balance transfer requests that are still undelivered after 2 weeks. And I just made 3 attempts to add external transfer accounts, each ending in failure. I tried, but this credit union is inferior. I'm going back into the mode of not wasting any more time on them, until such time as they have gotten their ducks in order.

And good luck on not having your high yield checking account cleaned out some day by using it for CashApp debits. IMHO using a debit card for online transactions or card reader transactions is highly risky, unless the amount on deposit in your deposit accounts is negligible, in which case it doesn't matter how high the yield is.

Re: Rant about Evansville Teachers FCU

Duke_Nukem — Tue, 05 Jul 2022 15:24:35 GMT

@SouthJamaica wrote:
6. I'm not familiar with "Cash App"; I'm skeptical that linking an app like that to one's checking account is invulnerable to fraud. Here's something from the first article I found when looking it up:
"Cash App payments are encrypted, most payments are made instantly, and usually the payments cannot be cancelled once the money is sent. This definitely leaves room for fraud and other crimes of social engineering.
“Third party apps like this, although they may be PCI-DSS compliant and encrypt all of their data, still put the responsibility on the user to make sure they use strong security and privacy practices for protecting their account,” says Kimble.
Sattar also notes that Cash App users can be susceptible to some forms of cybercrime, due to the digital nature of the payment service"
https://time.com/nextadvisor/credit-cards/cash-app-guide/
Sounds to me like it's just as vulnerable as making online payments with your debit card.

And good luck on not having your high yield checking account cleaned out some day by using it for CashApp debits. IMHO using a debit card for online transactions or card reader transactions is highly risky, unless the amount on deposit in your deposit accounts is negligible, in which case it doesn't matter how high the yield is.

As for the Cashapp, I'm not making any sort of payment using the ETFCU debit card. All I do is send $1 or so into the Cashapp account via the ETFCU debit card. Basically, I'm transferring $ from ETFCU into Cashapp. Then, once I reached the 15 debit transfers, I transfer all the $ from Cashapp account into the ETFCU account. No third party is involved or sent a payment, just personal $ transfers.

Re: Rant about Evansville Teachers FCU

SouthJamaica — Tue, 05 Jul 2022 15:49:15 GMT

@Duke_Nukem wrote:
@SouthJamaica wrote:
6. I'm not familiar with "Cash App"; I'm skeptical that linking an app like that to one's checking account is invulnerable to fraud. Here's something from the first article I found when looking it up:
"Cash App payments are encrypted, most payments are made instantly, and usually the payments cannot be cancelled once the money is sent. This definitely leaves room for fraud and other crimes of social engineering.
“Third party apps like this, although they may be PCI-DSS compliant and encrypt all of their data, still put the responsibility on the user to make sure they use strong security and privacy practices for protecting their account,” says Kimble.
Sattar also notes that Cash App users can be susceptible to some forms of cybercrime, due to the digital nature of the payment service"
https://time.com/nextadvisor/credit-cards/cash-app-guide/
Sounds to me like it's just as vulnerable as making online payments with your debit card.

And good luck on not having your high yield checking account cleaned out some day by using it for CashApp debits. IMHO using a debit card for online transactions or card reader transactions is highly risky, unless the amount on deposit in your deposit accounts is negligible, in which case it doesn't matter how high the yield is.
As for the Cashapp, I'm not making any sort of payment using the ETFCU debit card. All I do is send $1 or so into the Cashapp account via the ETFCU debit card. Basically, I'm transferring $ from ETFCU into Cashapp. Then, once I reached the 15 debit transfers, I transfer all the $ from Cashapp account into the ETFCU account. No third party is involved or sent a payment, just personal $ transfers.

Online transactions can be hacked.

Re: Rant about Evansville Teachers FCU

Duke_Nukem — Tue, 05 Jul 2022 16:27:51 GMT

@SouthJamaica wrote:
@Duke_Nukem wrote:
@SouthJamaica wrote:
6. I'm not familiar with "Cash App"; I'm skeptical that linking an app like that to one's checking account is invulnerable to fraud. Here's something from the first article I found when looking it up:
"Cash App payments are encrypted, most payments are made instantly, and usually the payments cannot be cancelled once the money is sent. This definitely leaves room for fraud and other crimes of social engineering.
“Third party apps like this, although they may be PCI-DSS compliant and encrypt all of their data, still put the responsibility on the user to make sure they use strong security and privacy practices for protecting their account,” says Kimble.
Sattar also notes that Cash App users can be susceptible to some forms of cybercrime, due to the digital nature of the payment service"
https://time.com/nextadvisor/credit-cards/cash-app-guide/
Sounds to me like it's just as vulnerable as making online payments with your debit card.

And good luck on not having your high yield checking account cleaned out some day by using it for CashApp debits. IMHO using a debit card for online transactions or card reader transactions is highly risky, unless the amount on deposit in your deposit accounts is negligible, in which case it doesn't matter how high the yield is.
As for the Cashapp, I'm not making any sort of payment using the ETFCU debit card. All I do is send $1 or so into the Cashapp account via the ETFCU debit card. Basically, I'm transferring $ from ETFCU into Cashapp. Then, once I reached the 15 debit transfers, I transfer all the $ from Cashapp account into the ETFCU account. No third party is involved or sent a payment, just personal $ transfers.
Online transactions can be hacked.

Really?!?! If you are truly that concerned to state "online transcactions can be hacked" when talking about Cashapp and/or ETFCU but not be concerned about listing your $700,000 of available credit and where that credit is located in your signature, then your mind is clearly closed to any argument that doesn't align with your own thoughts.

I will stop trying to persuade you otherwise as you obviously have made up your mind that ETFCU and Cashapp = BAD for you. By all means, close your accounts and move on.

Re: Rant about Evansville Teachers FCU

SouthJamaica — Tue, 05 Jul 2022 18:11:25 GMT

Nevertheless, I do not believe in exposing one's debit cards which are linked to substantial deposits to unnecessary online transactions.

I should also point out that the terms of the EFTCU vertical checking account require 15 debit card "purchases" per month. If you are making transfers, not purchases, it seems you are merely exploiting some glitch or blind spot in their system.

Re: Rant about Evansville Teachers FCU

disdreamin — Tue, 05 Jul 2022 17:53:24 GMT

@Duke_Nukem wrote:
Really?!?! If you are truly that concerned to state "online transcactions can be hacked" when talking about Cashapp and/or ETFCU but not be concerned about listing your $700,000 of available credit and where that credit is located in your signature, then your mind is clearly closed to any argument that doesn't align with your own thoughts.

I don't worry about my credit lines since there are fraud protections there that limit my liability in the event that unauthorized charges are placed on those cards. For debit cards or apps linked directly to a bank account, all too often I believe the liability falls on the account holder and there is much more risk to any money desposited into said accounts.

Have you read about individuals defrauded through Zelle, for example? I believe this is the type of social engineering scam OP was alluding to. Here's a relatively recent news story about victims of this type of fraud:

https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/customers-scammed-zelle-banking-app-have-virtually-no-fraud-protection-consumer-advocates-say/KKSK5LIOWVD47PF2UPTR4IMXSA/

So yes, I worry far more about vulnerabilities like the above than I do about sharing what type of credit accounts I have.

Re: Rant about Evansville Teachers FCU

core — Thu, 07 Jul 2022 08:14:56 GMT

@SouthJamaica wrote:
I should also point out that the terms of the EFTCU vertical checking account require 15 debit card "purchases" per month. If you are making transfers, not purchases, it seems you are merely exploiting some glitch or blind spot in their system.

That's really splitting hairs there. A distinction without a difference. It IS a purchase as far as ETFCU and Visa/MC are concerned. Because there's no such thing as a "transfer" on the back end. Only when you consider the intent of the user.

But Amazon $0.50 purchases are truly purchases no matter how you spin it IMO. 15x0.50 = $7.50, and if you have a 5% Amazon card you're losing out on just $0.38 in cash back by making those 15 purchases. But you are gaining a huge amount in interest. Makes good financial sense.

I don't belong to ETFCU so I'm not gonna be their cheerleader, but these types of accounts are a major source of income for me. Will they get tired of such calculated transactions each month? Maybe eventually, but it has never once happened to me and I have 20+ of these types of accounts. Once I had a lady get snooty with me when I called to change my account to a cash back type rather than interest. But rule #1 is "never call", right?

Re: Rant about Evansville Teachers FCU

SouthJamaica — Thu, 07 Jul 2022 11:41:03 GMT

@core wrote:
@SouthJamaica wrote:
I should also point out that the terms of the EFTCU vertical checking account require 15 debit card "purchases" per month. If you are making transfers, not purchases, it seems you are merely exploiting some glitch or blind spot in their system.
That's really splitting hairs there. A distinction without a difference. It IS a purchase as far as ETFCU and Visa/MC are concerned. Because there's no such thing as a "transfer" on the back end. Only when you consider the intent of the user.

But Amazon $0.50 purchases are truly purchases no matter how you spin it IMO. 15x0.50 = $7.50, and if you have a 5% Amazon card you're losing out on just $0.38 in cash back by making those 15 purchases. But you are gaining a huge amount in interest. Makes good financial sense.

I don't belong to ETFCU so I'm not gonna be their cheerleader, but these types of accounts are a major source of income for me. Will they get tired of such calculated transactions each month? Maybe eventually, but it has never once happened to me and I have 20+ of these types of accounts. Once I had a lady get snooty with me when I called to change my account to a cash back type rather than interest. But rule #1 is "never call", right?

You are only gaining a "huge amount in interest" if you are leaving a huge amount of money in the account and exposing it to possible fraud.

Re: Rant about Evansville Teachers FCU

core — Thu, 07 Jul 2022 11:53:32 GMT

@SouthJamaica wrote:
You are only gaining a "huge amount in interest" if you are leaving a huge amount of money in the account and exposing it to possible fraud.

Yes, that you are. What are your alternatives to a bank account though? By leaving that money in your mattress you are exposing it to possible theft or fire. Put the money in stocks and you are still exposed to possible fraud (Enron / Worldcom / etc). Put it in crypto and a single hard drive crash could take you out if you're not wise. Put it in foreign currencies and you are exposed to theft/sanctions by various governments. There's no way to be 100% safe no matter what you do, but an FDIC/NCUA insured account seems like a pretty safe bet all things considered. Maybe I'm not understanding your point.

Re: Rant about Evansville Teachers FCU

SouthJamaica — Thu, 07 Jul 2022 17:16:07 GMT

@core wrote:
@SouthJamaica wrote:
You are only gaining a "huge amount in interest" if you are leaving a huge amount of money in the account and exposing it to possible fraud.
Yes, that you are. What are your alternatives to a bank account though? By leaving that money in your mattress you are exposing it to possible theft or fire. Put the money in stocks and you are still exposed to possible fraud (Enron / Worldcom / etc). Put it in crypto and a single hard drive crash could take you out if you're not wise. Put it in foreign currencies and you are exposed to theft/sanctions by various governments. There's no way to be 100% safe no matter what you do, but an FDIC/NCUA insured account seems like a pretty safe bet all things considered. Maybe I'm not understanding your point.

I absolutely believe in putting one's savings in savings accounts at banks and credit unions.

What I do not believe in is using debit cards attached to those accounts in card reader and online transactions.

If one must use a debit card it should be attached to an account with a small enough balance that you would not feel the sting of seeing it frozen or even lost, in which case a "high yield" on the account is meaningless.

Re: Rant about Evansville Teachers FCU

Ilinferno — Fri, 08 Jul 2022 01:52:38 GMT

Re: Rant about Evansville Teachers FCU

purebulldogs — Fri, 08 Jul 2022 02:39:02 GMT

Some credit unions suck just like some banks suck. When I was in school and joined educators credit union, they started charging $5 a month if you didn't have at least $1000 in the account. I was a student so on weekends we scraped together beer and food money as a group. None of us had much in the bank.

Nowadays I always say it doesn't hurt to shop around for most things.

Re: Rant about Evansville Teachers FCU

Anonymous — Fri, 08 Jul 2022 03:24:35 GMT

@GatorGuy I have been with USAA for a long time. They are an incredible bank. I highly recommend them.