topic Re: The Quest for an SSL alternative to Alliant in Personal Finance

The Quest for an SSL alternative to Alliant

Anonymous — Sun, 18 Feb 2018 20:50:05 GMT

OVERVIEW: What are we trying to do?

Hello everyone. This thread is devoted to people who want to help find alternatives to Alliant as lenders we can recommend for the Share Secure Loan Technique. (Read the first two posts of that thread if you don't know what the SSL Technique is.)

As most of you know, the lender we recommended for a long time was Alliant. As of January 2nd, Alliant has stopped offering their SS loans, so we have been trying to find alternatives that would work just or almost as well. That's turned out to be a big challenge. I have looked into a dozen or so myself, SouthJ and other contributors have looked into some, mostly with no success.

This thread seeks to leverage the community here to do the legwork of finding alternatives. I will continue to look into at least a few a week, and I will keep this thread organized and up to date (new info and results I will keep in the top 4-5 posts).

I'll be most grateful for anyone who wishes to help, but to keep the thread as easy to read as possible, please do not post unless you are sure you are willing to research one or more banks/CUs. Either post because you are giving us results of your research, or because you are raising your hand to volunteer and want to alert others which bank you will be looking into.

When you post results of your research, bear in mind that we'll be interested in answers to the following:
* If you pay off most of the loan early on, does that postpone the due date of the next payment by a few years? Or does the bank still make you continue with monthly payments? This is the question everything turns on.
* What is the minimum loan amount for a long loan term? (e.g. 60 months)

* Hard pull to join the CU or open the savings account? Hard pull to apply for the loan?
* Is it difficult to join the CU? (Challenging membership criteria, limited to people in certain states)

Also be sure to clarify what you are basing your investigation on. If it is a phone call with a bank/CU rep, strongly prefer to speak with a loan officer, rather than a run of the mill customer service rep.

Here's how the thread will be structured:
Post #1: Overview of what we are trying to do
Post #2: CUs/Banks that work for sure (though they may not be perfect)
Post #3: CUs/Banks that have been ruled out
Post #4: CUs/Banks which are being investigated (jury is out)

Post #5: Blank page in case we need an extra one
Posts #6 to 999: People volunteering to look into a specific bank or CU, giving the results of their investigation, etc.

Postscript:

As you see above, we view the ability of the borrower to pay off almost the entire loan at month 1 but still keep it open for a long time (e.g. 60 months) to be the defining feature of the SSL technique. There is one exception, however, and we welcome research into this. That's where somebody has borderline credit with no open loans and and is preparing for his first big loan (typically for a car).

In this case, the person does not need to keep his SSL open for 60 months, since once he gets his car, the auto loan will eclipse any scoring advantage from the SSL. What he wants the SSL for is the 30 point boost, typically in the next five months -- it will be like a ladder he climbs and then throws away once he gets the thing he wants (the car).

What he does care about is having a true SSL (which unlike an unsecured loan will be approved even for people with bad credit), one with no hard pull, and ideally one with a fairly low minimum loan amount. For such a person it is totally ok if the prompt paydown to 8.99% causes it to pay off at month 5 rather than month 59. If anyone can find good alternatives here that would be great too.

Re: The Quest for an SSL alternative to Alliant

Anonymous — Mon, 13 May 2019 07:49:27 GMT

CUs/Banks that work for sure (though they may not be perfect)

Navy Federal Credit Union
Score: 99.9% chance this will work (recent datapoint here)
Advantages:
* Offers a true SS loan, early paydown while keeping it open, etc.
Disadvantages:
* Navy may require a hard pull to join (mixed reports on this, though it appears very unlikely)
* Navy has more challenging criteria to join, but some people have found a way to circumvent this. (E.g. a dead grandfather who was in the army)
* A 60 month loan has a large minimum loan amount ($3000)

Alliant Credit Union (unsecured loan option)
Score: 99% chance this will work
Advantages:
* Works basically just like a Share Secure loan as far as early paydown

* The early paydown essentially negates any problem with the interest rate
Disadvantages:
* Hard pull (we expect on Equifax)
* People with low scores may be rejected

* Alliant may require you to have been a member for six months before you apply

SSFCU

* Offers a true SS loan, early paydown while keeping it open, etc.

* Permits very long term loans, e.g. 10 years if you open a large enough loan
Disadvantages:
* Restrictive criteria to join this CU. Must be a resident of Texas, Colorado or Utah. But.... if you think you might be visiting one of those three states you might well have luck by going into a branch. See post 308 in this thread for more details.

Reminder: If a person is preparing to buy a car in the next 10 months (to take one example) the 60 month term has no real benefit. His needs will be fully met with a small $500 loan and a 12 month term. Such a borrower should still execute the full SSL Technique as described by folks here on the forums, which means paying the loan to under 8.9% two months before he needs the score boost. Once he is approved for his "real" loan (e.g. the car loan) the SSLT will have done its work. He can use pretty much any CU that offers an SSL since he doesn't need the CU to push out the due date for the next payment.

Re: The Quest for an SSL alternative to Alliant

Anonymous — Sat, 24 Feb 2018 19:54:12 GMT

CUs/Banks that have been ruled out

I found most of the following by google searches like Best Credit Unions. That led to groups that had evaluated CUs around the country and come up with the ones they thought were the top rated. Other have been researched and ruled out by later contributors to this thread.

The typical reason why a bank or CU was ruled out is that if a person makes a big payment, that does not push the next payment due date way into the future. Thus the big payment will cause the loan to get paid off very soon. This was confirmed by an actual loan officer, not merely a low lever customer service rep.

Other reasons might have been that pre-payment was permitted, but only by three months, or perhaps the bank/CU did not offer SS loans at all.

I have also included big names like Citi and Chase.

Affinity Plus

American Airlines Credit Union

Chase

Chevron Federal Credit Union

Citi

Connexus
DCU (Digital Federal Credit Union)
Hanscomb
Hiway Federal Credit Union

Langley

Northropp-Grumman

Patelco CU
Premier Members Credit Union

SCCU – Space Coast Credit Union

Vantage West Credit Union

Wells Fargo

Re: The Quest for an SSL alternative to Alliant

Anonymous — Sat, 13 Apr 2019 01:25:22 GMT

CUs/Banks which are being investigated (jury is out)

We do not yet have a volunteer to look into these. SDFCU is an especial possibility, but we won't know until someone does the legwork.

America First Credit Union (link)

PennFed

PNC
Regions
SDFCU

Contributor Kree encourages someone to look into

Farmers Credit Union, and I assume other smalltime places, will allow you to take additional advances on your original loan line. So theoretically you could borrow additional money to repay every month, and keep the loan open for forever.

Other possibilities (from a forum thread 2+ years ago -- consider all of them and the annotations next to them as useful but uncorroborated guesswork):

Andrews FCU

no webpage (call) appllying online is possible

Terms: 12-144months (depending on dollar amount)

Amount: $~~500~~ (min is $1000 now)-100.000

APR: 3.00% + savings rate

INQ: no pull

San Diego County FCU

APR: 5.00%

Coastal FCU

see other (post indicates potential soft pull for SSL)

APR: 2.1%

Amount: $480 over 24 months is possible

Golden 1 FCU

webpage

Amount: $500-

APR: 4.99%

NASA FCU

savings secured loan rate is 3.1% (3% + the 0.1% interest rate of the savings account).

Minimum Shared Secure Loan is $500, Minimum monthly payment is $25.

Terms up to 60 months.

Re: The Quest for an SSL alternative to Alliant

Anonymous — Tue, 13 Feb 2018 20:23:32 GMT

Blank page in case this thread needs an extra one

Re: The Quest for an SSL alternative to Alliant

Anonymous — Wed, 14 Feb 2018 06:45:03 GMT

Patelco:

* If you pay off most of the loan early on, does that postpone the due date of the next payment by a few years? Or does the bank still make you continue with monthly payments?

No, there is a minumum payment each month. If you pay down loan it reduces the term.

* What is the minimum loan amount for a long loan term? (e.g. 60 months)

Ranges based on loan amount

* Hard pull to join the CU or open the savings account? Hard pull to apply for the loan?

No HP to join CU, open savings, or get loan.
* Is it difficult to join the CU? (Challenging membership criteria, limited to people in certain states)

Limited to mostly San Francisco Bay Area.

Got this info directly from my personal banker at the local branch.

Re: The Quest for an SSL alternative to Alliant

Anonymous — Wed, 14 Feb 2018 15:01:26 GMT

Thanks so much! I have updated the main thread.

Note to anyone doing research: if you get the prepayment question answered as a No, feel free to skip investigating all the other questions. Once we know that Prepayment won't work, the questions about the hard pulls (etc.) become moot.

Re: The Quest for an SSL alternative to Alliant

Anonymous — Sat, 17 Feb 2018 15:16:21 GMT

Updated list of CUs/banks to investigate (Feb 17)

Re: The Quest for an SSL alternative to Alliant

Anonymous — Sun, 18 Feb 2018 19:41:52 GMT

Hello everyone.

I am brand new to the forum but ready to contribute.

I have a long relationship at wells fargo and have $3000+ to fork for loan experiment.

I only needed you to tell me what exactly to do at WELLS FARGO.

I have asked one officer that said that secured loan is a hard inquiry.

I have read thru the SSL technique but wells fargo ,NOT been a Credit Union ;I need some input as to what product to ask there and steps if any ;other than SSL technique is needed?

I am Ready and able to do it Tuesday and report here.

My profile:I have currently FICO 8 score 710 ; with 2 credit cards; 8 months old both are "unsecured" that graduated 2months ago from secured at both Wells fargo and Capital one.(Yes,even Wells fargo secured do graduate sometimes)

I am middle age ,brand New to credit no other loan!

Cheers

Re: The Quest for an SSL alternative to Alliant

Anonymous — Sun, 18 Feb 2018 19:49:22 GMT

By the way,from my personal investigation(phone call)This Arrow credit union in texas (link below) has no hard for joigning and no hard or credit check for SSL or secured credit card.

https://www.arrowheadcu.org/Share-Secured_Visa_703.html

Re: The Quest for an SSL alternative to Alliant

Anonymous — Sun, 18 Feb 2018 20:25:37 GMT

@Anonymouswrote:
Hello everyone.
I am brand new to the forum but ready to contribute.
I have a long relationship at wells fargo and have $3000+ to fork for loan experiment.
I only needed you to tell me what exactly to do at WELLS FARGO.
I have asked one officer that said that secured loan is a hard inquiry.
I have read thru the SSL technique but wells fargo ,NOT been a Credit Union ;I need some input as to what product to ask there and steps if any ;other than SSL technique is needed?
I am Ready and able to do it Tuesday and report here.
My profile:I have currently FICO 8 score 710 ; with 2 credit cards; 8 months old both are "unsecured" that graduated 2months ago from secured at both Wells fargo and Capital one.(Yes,even Wells fargo secured do graduate sometimes)
I am middle age ,brand New to credit no other loan!
Cheers

I just did a little WF research (limited on a Sunday) and came up with this link:

https://www.wellsfargo.com/personal-credit/products/

You will see that the third column is the one we want. Every bank uses slightly different language to name its product, but at WF it is their "CD/Savings Secured Loan".

WF is not ideal because you can see that the loan minimum is $3000 and there is a $75 origination fee. Better would be their unsecured loan (which has no fee) but we already have a good option there and that is Alliant. And then, on top of that, we don't know how WF handles it when a person makes the big payment early in the life of the loan. As mentioned in post #1, that is the thing everything turns on. Given the high origination fee, however, I am not sure it makes sense to explore WF further, even if they did end up permitting prepayment.

Thanks for the news about Arrowhead. The link you give is to its secured credit cards. A better link would be this:

https://www.arrowheadcu.org/Share-Secured_Loan_83.html

I will follow up with them this week to see how they handle prepayment. They look pretty good otherwise.

Re: The Quest for an SSL alternative to Alliant

Anonymous — Sun, 18 Feb 2018 20:51:53 GMT

I have added an important postscript to post #1 in this thread.

Re: The Quest for an SSL alternative to Alliant

Anonymous — Mon, 19 Feb 2018 14:36:24 GMT

Thanks for the input.

Will look further from tomorrow and report.

Re: The Quest for an SSL alternative to Alliant

Anonymous — Tue, 20 Feb 2018 19:20:54 GMT

PNC

If you pay off most of the loan early on, does that postpone the due date of the next payment by a few years? NO

Or does the bank still make you continue with monthly payments? YES

Didn’t go further but limit is stated at $100K.

Re: The Quest for an SSL alternative to Alliant

Anonymous — Tue, 20 Feb 2018 19:32:26 GMT

SCCU – Space Coast Credit Union (99.9% positive if you qualify)

If you pay off most of the loan early on, does that postpone the due date of the next payment by a few years? It does postpone the due date, but not more than 1 year on a 120-month loan. It depends on the loan length of service, but you can always do it for at least 3-4 months. At the end of the bulk payment term you can ask to do it again, OR you can always just pay one month normally (auto deduction) and then go for another 3-4 months. They will work with you at any time, but you must have the exact number of months not one penny more or less. They have SSL CDs as well as standard SSL accounts.

Does the bank still make you continue with monthly payments? No. See above about possible limitations.

What is the minimum loan amount for a long loan term? No limit, but the CS was unable to verify 100% (boss was not in). Other loans they don't really go below $1,000 except for juniors/college students (kids’ accounts) which have $100.

What is the maximum loan amount? Limit is up to amount in SS account. Unsecured is twice your gross monthly income.

What is the maximum loan length? UP to 120-months.

Hard pull to join the CU or open the savings account? NO, just cash or direct deposit.

Hard pull to apply for the loan? YES, but not in all cases. Mainly the longer you’ve been a customer the better chance you have of getting a Soft Pull. She seemed to imply that you must go into a branch to get this - online seems like it will always be a HP.

Is it difficult to join the CU? Depends. It is open to most people in certain states (FL, TX, etc), all people in certain counties (Brevard for example) their family members, relatives or anyone that can use the snail mail address of an existing account holder. It is also open to most members and their families of certain industries (NASA, NOAA, Patrick AFB) or parts of corporations (i.e. Lockheed Martin Space Systems, Hughes Satellites, etc.). You really need to call for this even before you do anything else.

Contact Number: 800-447-7228

Contact Person: Yes, but she asked for me not to publish it on a public forum.

Website: https://www.sccu.com/Personal/Personal-Lines-Loans/Share-CD-Secured-Loans

Good Luck

Re: The Quest for an SSL alternative to Alliant

Anonymous — Tue, 20 Feb 2018 20:56:34 GMT

Thanks, Y! I thought initially that this might be the Space Ghost credit union, which I would just have to join regardless because of the intensely cool name.

Suppose for a second that I got a $1000 SS loan with them, and then in the first month I paid it down to $89. If I understand it right, that would extend the next payment date by 12 months. Then at month 13 autopayments could kick in, but that would still I imagine result in the loan paying off (I imagine) by month 21 or so. Am I misunderstanding this?

Thus, I am thinking this is not a good fit for the primary SSL technique, which is to have a loan that gets paid down to under 8.9% (necessary for the scoring benefit) but still stays open for a solid 59 months.

On the other hand it is also not an ideal fit for the person who is trying to buy a car in the next six months (see the PS in post #1 for that scenario). That's because the loan has a hard pull.

Let me know your thoughts.

Re: The Quest for an SSL alternative to Alliant

Anonymous — Tue, 20 Feb 2018 21:22:02 GMT

Your right CGID, this is not a true SSL for the full 60 months (SCCU will go 120 months). For the folks wanting the car loan; well this is perfect as is. Unfortunately it is not a the true SSL. Now I did talk with the loan officer (went into the branch) and they (at least this one) appear willing to work with a client. In fact, they advertise “Build and re-establish credit using your own money.” What I got from them was keeping a low balance on your account costs them money. As you pay down your loan they release your funds. If you get a $1,000 loan and after 1 month only have 90 bucks remaining, it costs them money. But they seem willing to work with people. I think (ONLY MY OPINION AND NO FACTS TO BACK IT UP) if the borrower offered to keep their funds wrapped up in the loan; then there would be no problem with them. Unfortunately, I didn’t ask this (didn’t think of it since I never used SSL) but I’ll try to call my contact tomorrow and ask. Most she can say is no – TBC.

Re: The Quest for an SSL alternative to Alliant

simplynoir — Thu, 22 Feb 2018 04:02:44 GMT

Is there a consensus that the NFCU SSL is the best one out there if you're already a member currently right now? Trying to get my two younger sisters' credit started by having a loan reporting and other than the deposit requirement which I can live with I want to get the ball rolling.

Re: The Quest for an SSL alternative to Alliant

SouthJamaica — Thu, 22 Feb 2018 13:07:43 GMT

@simplynoirwrote:
Is there a consensus that the NFCU SSL is the best one out there if you're already a member currently right now? Trying to get my two younger sisters' credit started by having a loan reporting and other than the deposit requirement which I can live with I want to get the ball rolling.

I don't think so.

I think this quest is showing that it won't be so easy after all to find a replacement for Alliant.

Re: The Quest for an SSL alternative to Alliant

Anonymous — Thu, 22 Feb 2018 16:58:42 GMT

@SouthJamaicawrote:
@simplynoirwrote:
Is there a consensus that the NFCU SSL is the best one out there if you're already a member currently right now? Trying to get my two younger sisters' credit started by having a loan reporting and other than the deposit requirement which I can live with I want to get the ball rolling.
I don't think so.

I think this quest is showing that it won't be so easy after all to find a replacement for Alliant.

Hi SouthJ! I think the answer may be yes, given that SimplyNoir has qualified the question with if you're already a member [of Navy] currently right now .

If a person is already a member of Navy, then they have alreday cleared the hurdle of getting into Navy and the possible hard pull for joining (both drawbacks for a non-Navy member). I think what people seem to be saying is that Navy's SS loans work just fine (including early paydown and then keeping them open for the full term). Bear in mind that there does appear to be a minimum loan size of 3k.

I cannot confirm any of this myself from experience. The more people who take Navy out for a true SS loan spin, the better.